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I did the Carmichael 3 mile test - RESULTS- Feedback Please(98 posts)

I did the Carmichael 3 mile test - RESULTS- Feedback Pleaseaarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 6:59 AM
Has anyone done the Chris Carmichael 3-mile test and what were your times? All you fine folks were kind enough to reply to my posts yesterday on bike fit, maybe you can provide some feedback for me today. After work, I decided to go with my buddy to a 3 mile, flat strech of road we mapped out to do the Carmichael fitness test. Basically a 3 mile time trial. My exact time over the 3 mile course was *** 5min,50sec.*** There was a slight tailwind however we paced each other with a truck riding directly behind us to run interference for traffic...so could this have been like a reverse slipstream with the truck negating the effects of the tailwind? Can anyone please comment or provide some feedback as to how this might compare to some of you more seasoned cyclists. *** Carmichael, in his book says that an advanced- intermediate racing cyclist can do the 3 mile test in under 8 minutes. I've been riding seriously on a road bike for about 6 months and I could NOT BELIEVE it when my buddy told me the time! You all already saw my Sean Kelly, aero-nightmarish bike fit from yesterdays posts. Just seeking some feedback. Thanks. -Aaron
Do it again, this time UPWIND and average them ;-)nmSpunout
Jul 31, 2003 7:02 AM
that's almost 31 mph; you're a pro. nmDougSloan
Jul 31, 2003 7:03 AM
If my calculations are correct...scary slow
Jul 31, 2003 7:14 AM
you averaged 30.8 mph. In my book that is incredible. I did the test a couple of years ago when the book first came out and the best I ever did was right around 7 minutes. Average speed was closer to 25 mph. The course I did it on did have some slight elevation changes. Regardless I was happy with 25 mph.
My informal 10-mile "TT" last night ...Humma Hah
Jul 31, 2003 8:22 AM
Let's see, I did 10 miles on the flat airport access roads at just under my AT, on the cruiser, in just over 37 minutes. The first 5 miles averaged 16.7 mph, then the wind started to pick up. If I'd been aiming for 3 miles I might have managed 18 mph.

I happened to be in a rabbit chase against a roadie in full kit who trains here often. Usually he's in a group of 3 or 4 riders, but today was solo. He was pulling slowly away from me. I typically clock his group at around 20 mph when they're pacelining.

30.8 mph is a good pace even pacelining with a tailwind, but I think, to be meaningful, it has to be a TT-style solo effort, on a closed-loop course. If I understand Carmichael's test, it is essentially a VO2-max measurement tool. The primary drag is airspeed, and the drag increases with velocity squared and power required at a given speed increases by velocity cubed. Thus, pacelining dramatically reduces power required by reducing airspeed.

I've never been high on this VO2 measure. Some people are just naturally good at this sort of thing.
not buying itfiltersweep
Jul 31, 2003 7:36 AM
Feedback? I'd try again- this time make sure your bike computer is calibrated properly and use your computer stopwatch for an out and back (to compensate for any wind). Start from a dead stop...

Why did you need your buddy to "run interference for traffic" in a truck? Adding that detail just makes your story sound even fishier...
not buying itRockyHillClimber
Jul 31, 2003 7:43 AM
This sounds like a Radical Ron story if you ask me.
Give me a FReAKING break!aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 7:47 AM
My first reaction to you is to say "bite me." But in truth I was as skeptical as you. I did not do my own timing. My friend did it with a stop watch. He stood by the start line and hit it when I passed, then as I went down the road, he jumped into the truck and came back up on me and followed me for approx 2 miles, then went ahead and stopped at the marked stop line and hit the stop on the watch as I passed. He ran interference for me because it was a frontage road that is travelled by ag trucks and field workers in south Monterey county and we didn't want any problems with traffic and as they came up behind him in the truck, he honked to let me know someone was going to pass. I could appreciate your comments if the criticism was constructive but it seems you are accusing me of lying or cheating. Why would I do that?!?! I have nothing to gain? I don't personally know any of you. I'm new to the sport and wanted to see how I stack up to riders that I would deem more experienced and more fit. If you saw my posts yesterday, you can see I have huge-@$$ legs for hammering. So please, respectfully, bite me!
In addition, I'd like to add...aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 7:52 AM
That I have no aspirations to be a pro and I'm 35 years old. I felt like dying when I passed the 3 mile line mark and there's no way I'd be able to sustain that pace. But isn't that what time trialing is all about? Going all out against the clock. I suck at endurance and the 3 miles was really my breaking point. Was my time really that big a deal that someone would feel the need to think there was something "fishy?" or imply that I'm somehow being dishonest. It's not like I'm posting that I came within 100 meters of the hour record!
Just like Obree...aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 7:58 AM
Not that I'm in any class near him, but I'd imagine you, filtersweep, being one of the first UCI idiots rushing up and nullifying his "hour" time because something seemed fishy. Geez....
exactly how new are you to road cycling?_rt_
Jul 31, 2003 8:02 AM
and what were you doing before you picked it up?

rt - not critizing. just curious.
exactly how new are you to road cycling?aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 8:08 AM
I started road cycling about 9 months ago. My first post to this board was asking about purchasing a mid 90's Miyata as my first entry-level bike. That lasted for about 3 months and I bought a Scattante CFR (SuperGo housebrand CF with Ultegra) which I have ridden for the past 6 months. Prior to the Miyata and initial foray into road, I rode dirt (mtb) for about a year. Prior to that I hadn't been on a bike in 15 years. BUT, I will add that since I did get back onto the bike, starting with dirt and then road now, it has been an all consuming passion. I have bought the books, the videos, the DVD's and have ridden lots and lots. Well as much as a 35y/o dad and husband can get away with. I have always been very athletic and *very* densly muscled. Look at my pics from my posts yesterday. I may look a bit like a Fred but I'm a relative NewB so I think it's ok.
Well, muscle density doesn't really have that great of an impactJames OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 8:15 AM
on the amount of power that you can produce for 5k. Intervals of this distance rely heavily on V02 max. That is, oxygen consumption per weight. Sounds like yours is pretty high...
i asked because_rt_
Jul 31, 2003 9:42 AM
not many newbies shave their legs or can talk about Obree....hell, i don't even know who Obree is & i've been riding road & dirt (mtn) for 5 years as an all consuming passion....so i was just wondering.

rt
You know who Obree is and you know what UCI is, yet...Dave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 8:23 AM
You don't know how a 5 minute 50 second, 3 mile time trial stacks up? Come on arrontoy, get real..........
article on obree & uci in last month's bicycling mag (nm)JS Haiku Shop
Jul 31, 2003 8:28 AM
THAT'S where I read it! Jeez!aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 8:33 AM
Like a newbie isn't allowed to know about Obree or the UCI or read Bicycling magazine?!
don't get defensive! if i were picking on you, you'd know it nmJS Haiku Shop
Jul 31, 2003 8:51 AM
Good point. Shows how much I retain from Bicycling nmDave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 8:35 AM
I don't remember it either! Matter of fact,OldEdScott
Jul 31, 2003 8:58 AM
the other day I found a copy in the entry hall, thought, Ah, the mail has come and there's a new Bicycling out. I sat down and read it cover to cover, which didn't take long. As I was putting it aside, I noticed it was the APRIL edition. Not a new one at all, but one I had already read. I didn't even notice! And I retain almost everything!
the obree article was surprisingJS Haiku Shop
Jul 31, 2003 9:03 AM
well-written, informational, educational, historic, factual; an effort not befitting the "Seventeen" of cycling publications.

this month's Bicycling arrived yesterday, and i--will i never learn--sat down at dinner to read through it. i was done before eating my veggies.

ah, well. do bears bare? do bees be?
I received this months issue on MondayDave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 9:07 AM
I honestly can't remember anything about it's contents.
Hmmmm. You're right. I didn't see hisOldEdScott
Jul 31, 2003 8:29 AM
reference to the Flying Scot. I take back what I said below about seeming sincere.
Hmmmm. You're right. I didn't see hisOldEdScott
Jul 31, 2003 8:31 AM
reference to the Flying Scot. I take back what I said below about seeming sincere.
skepticismDougSloan
Jul 31, 2003 7:55 AM
I think the skepticism is valid, but I would probably chalk it up to wind-aided or mis-measurement. Even a 10 mph wind could really skew the results. An out and back would be a better measure. Also, ensure that the distance is accurate. Calibrate your speedo with a wheel rollout measurement. Do a reality check by noting the speed on your computer as you ride. If you consistently see 25 mph, then the calcs show 31, something's wrong.

Also keep in mind that very, very few people who ever visit this board would be able to do a legitimate 31 mph time trial, even for 3 miles. Most people can't even hit that speed in a 200 meter sprint with a rolling start. 25 mph would be very good, and I know some really fast Cat 1's around here that do just under 30 mph. However, I've easily ridden 31 mph for over 20 miles with the right tailwind. My guess is that the wind was stronger than you think.

Doug
For what it's worthaarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 8:21 AM
My friend noted that at about the 1 mile point, he was pacing me at 35 MPH on the truck's odom. I was in the biggest ring and the smallest gear and felt like I could hammer another couple gears. That lasted about a mile and I came back down to about 30 mph. The 3 mile course was marked by the truck's trip odom which measures distance in tenths of a mile. We had marked the course the day before.
Remember if the odo is off 10 percent...koala
Jul 31, 2003 8:39 AM
Thats a huge difference. I was thinking of doing the 3 miler myself. But the best I ever did in the local 10 miler was 22minutes and 32seconds, and I was fitter then, the course record being about a minute faster as it is in rolling hills.On an up and back I would be happy with a seven to seven and a half minutes as I only have time to ride 2500 to 3000 per year. The numbers in the 10 miler were also done without the benefit of aero equipment, some 17 years ago, and I was riding twice the mileage.
I think you had a significant tail wind nmDougSloan
Jul 31, 2003 8:46 AM
For what it's worthpaddlechris
Jul 31, 2003 8:57 AM
You have to watch the trucks Odometer..

I did a mini tri last year that was posted as a 3 mile run at the end. Like anyone who does it alot, I know my pace and my time.. When my watch said I was done, I still could not see the finish line. After the race alot of people complained, and it appeared that the run was actually almost 4 miles.. the trucks ODM was off in a big way and it was a relativley new truck!!
South Monterey County is.........huez
Jul 31, 2003 10:10 AM
notoriously WINDY. It just BLOWS up that Salinas Valley everyday. Hard.
Well, you asked how you stack up...James OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 8:03 AM
In all fairness, you asked! 5:50 in 5k is very impressive... for a professional. How much do you weigh? I'd bet that your watts/kg are pretty high...

If you are a "newbie", then I can understand you not understanding why you got the reaction that you did...

I'm not one to doubt your results, nor am I one to criticise. I will, however, make a few points:

The test is suposed to consist of two 3 mile Time Trials with 10 minutes of recovery in between. I think that the idea behind it is to look for "repeatablilty". If you can repeat the same effort within 1-2% (speed, & HR/Power), that is good. If not, it suggests that you might need some remedial max aerobic conditioning. The ability to recover and repeat within 1-2% demonstrates very high quality aerobic conditioning...
Now this is critcism that I can really appreciate!aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 8:14 AM
I weigh 183. 5'8". Very little fat. The Carmicheal book didn't mention 2 tests within 10 minutes of each other and I know for a fact that I'd probably come in 50% slower on the second since I was so spent from the first. My aerobic conditioning is the weakest link in my overall conditioning. My training basically consists of a daily, lunchtime ride of 21 miles in exactly 60 minutes over a mixed hilly/flat, 2.4 mile loop. 5X a week. 2 months ago, I did my first long ride, the metric century Strawberry Fields Ride in Santa Cruz county. I finished feeling like I could have done the actual century.
Truck was in front maybe? nmSpunout
Jul 31, 2003 7:56 AM
Nope.aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 8:02 AM
Truck was behind me (with emergency blinkers on) to ensure no fieldworkers came up behind on me at 70MPH in an overloaded minivan. They had to pass around. I have enough integrity that If I was drafting behind a Ford F150 for 3 miles, that I'd say it was so.
Don't accept USPS first offer (nm)Crankist
Jul 31, 2003 7:37 AM
Do it again, but this time use only one spoke magnet. ;) nmfirstrax
Jul 31, 2003 8:07 AM
BAWWWWWWWW LOL Excellent....... haaaaaaaaaa....nmafrican
Jul 31, 2003 8:21 AM
Didn't use ANY spoke magnets because...aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 8:25 AM
I'm riding Spinergy Rev-X's and haven't figured out how to get my bike computer to work with those large bladed spokes.
Well, GET one and do it again ...Humma Hah
Jul 31, 2003 8:30 AM
... or find a comparable closed course, measure the length, and time with a stopwatch. Solo. If the original time is a mistake, well, so be it. If you can do it again, with any consistency, well, Armstrong and Ullrich can still beat you but you may be good enough to make the team, and a real threat with some training.

And that is, after all, a possibility.
Epoxy the magnet to the spoke.....nm.Dave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 8:39 AM
Just a thought try test on indoor trainer......abicirider
Jul 31, 2003 8:15 AM
Maybe you could do the test on a indoor trainer say ride for 5min 50 sec have your computer hooked up to rear wheel if possible then get your milage. I may be completley wron but this may indicate how much the outside climate affected your speed time. Like I said may be totally wrong just a thought also do you use a heart rate monitor if so what was your avg heart rate for the test compare hearte rates outside and to indoor trainer.
Good Luck
Be Safe Out On The Roads!!!!!!
Ray Still
Mooresville, NC
The resistance of real riding and a trainer don't compare.overtrained
Jul 31, 2003 8:25 AM
Real riding gets exponentially more difficult because of drag. Trainers don't mimic this accurately. Therefore 25mp/h outside is not 25 on the trainer.
Depends on the trainer, besidesJames OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 8:30 AM
the rolling resistance generated by a rear wheel on a typical trainer is 2lbs. Outside, on asphalt, it's more like .6lbs. Besides, outside, you have kenetic energy that you do not have indoors (this is why you slow down imediately on the trainer once you stop pedaling). To simulate this, you would need a HUGE flywheel on the trainer...

So, you're right - 25 mph indoors is not 25 mph outdoors. 25 mph indoors is probably ~28 or so outdoors.
I think that a mistake was madeMR_GRUMPY
Jul 31, 2003 8:16 AM
Maybe your buddy was playing a joke on you. You should have used your own bike computer to get a rough time. I always start the timer on my HRM about 5 seconds before I go off. I stop it when I cross the line (3-5 seconds after). That way, I can tell if they screwed up my finish time when they list it.
Have to admit I dismissed your post as one of thoseOldEdScott
Jul 31, 2003 8:22 AM
lame 'average speed' exaggerations that infest this board. The speed you cite is simply not credible. Nowhere NEAR credible. But since you seem sincere, we'll have to chalk it up as a significant error, somewhere, or a hellacious tailwind.
Here's some stats based on your resluts.James OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 8:23 AM
Assuming that the course was completely flat and speed was constant, to do that kind of time you would have to produce 450 watts at slightly above threshold. At a weight of 83k, that gives you a rating of 5.43 watts/kg. That is Professional level...
Is it such a stretch that...aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 8:29 AM
someone could ride at a pro level for 3 miles only? I'm really disheartened by this skepticicms. Maybe a mistake was made somewhere, I have no idea where. We measured the course. We used a stop watch. Yes, there was atailwind. I noted that in my original post. Un-freaking-believable...[sigh!]
Honestly, yes...James OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 8:34 AM
It's actually quite a stretch, unless you just happen to be genetically gifted. 3 miles is too long to rely just on muscular strength alone. Maybe in a sprint, but not for 3 miles. 3 miles relies too heavily on your V02 Max, and in untrained individuals, this is no where near high enough (again, unless you happen to be genetically gifted) to ride at pro levels.

Most Cat 1 racers can't ride at pro levels for 3 miles. Only Pros can...
On the other hand ...Humma Hah
Jul 31, 2003 8:57 AM
... it can happen. Some people ARE genetically gifted, and have that kind of VO2-max. And I'd personally be delighted if this forum turned one up.

The numbers are not impossible. Even 600 watts for an hour are not impossible.

But I sure can't do it.
Why are y'all busting his chops?MShaw
Jul 31, 2003 9:08 AM
Yeah, but he only did it for 3mi, AND was completely cooked by the end. If you know that you only have to do 3mi/5-6min, couldn't you conceivably go all out?

I don't know about y'all, but on a flat road that I KNEW I only had to do one time, I'd push a lot harder than if I was doint a 20km TT.

If the test distance was measured accurately, etc. I don't see that his times/wattage is too far off for this distance. Granted, I didn't see it, don't know the OP, etc. but I'm willing to give the benefit of a doubt pending a backup ride to verify things.

Mike
This speed for 4 miles would have placed him 25th .........Len J
Jul 31, 2003 9:20 AM
in the tour prologue.

No one is calling him a liar, it's just hard to believe that there wasn't other errors.

Len
No one's busting his chops - besides, he askedJames OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 9:47 AM
how he stacked up. We're all telling him that based on the numbers that he put up, he's up there with the Pro's. How's that busting his chops? If he really did the time, great for him! We're just saying that he must be an anomoly...

Typically, the difference in power output between a 5k TT and a 20k TT from an elite cyclist is about 10%. You can't go THAT much harder, even if it's all-out over 5k as opposed to 10, 20 or even 40k...
Get a new computerpmf1
Jul 31, 2003 8:29 AM
Because the one you have isn't working right.
re: I did the Carmichael 3 mile test - RESULTS- Feedback Pleasedarkvapor
Jul 31, 2003 8:34 AM
Don't let them get you down. I am in the same boat as you. I am 37 with 2 kids. I have some cycling experience racing BMX as a teen and Road racing in 20's. I stopped riding all together about 11 years ago. Only recently have started road cycling once again. So far I am about 3 months into cycling again and have been working out with weights again for about 6 months. I feel much better now and have lost 44 lbs. Heck I am 5'6" and was up to 217 lbs at my max weight. My abilities are really in weight training but I love cycling. I can sprint very well but have a harder time sutaining anything over 26 mph. Years ago I was averaging between 25 and 28 mph on the road with head wind now its hard to keep up to 20 mph average (I think its all my drivways fault 12% grade). After I get a better aerobic base I will try the 3 mile test. SO far my longest rides are 30 miles I just need a bit more time on the bike. Hope to do a century the end of August. Now that my oldest son is 16 he has gotten into cycling and is looking forward to getting a road bike and completing a century. Right now he is confined to my mountain bike Cycle -on, darkvapor
We ALL average 25-28 mph on the raod with a headwind andOldEdScott
Jul 31, 2003 8:48 AM
a section of 12 percent grade thrown in. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
We ALL average 25-28 mph on the raod with a headwind anddarkvapor
Jul 31, 2003 9:02 AM
12% for only 300 feet.
Hard to believe, but not impossible. I know a guy....cory
Jul 31, 2003 8:34 AM
It's way out of MY league, now or ever. But I used to ride with a guy who'd been a nationally ranked college sprinter (track, not cycling), and I dunno. He could produce HUGE bursts of power for short periods--he'd damn near lap me running an 880, but couldn't sustain the pace much past a mile. I never timed him on a bike, but he'd just flat ride away from me when I was riding in the mid-20s. Ten minutes later, he'd be by the side of the road, hurling on his shoes.
Hard to believe, but not impossible. I know a guy....James OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 8:36 AM
I also know a guy who can turn 5k in ~ 6 minutes... he's a Pro...
reality checkJS Haiku Shop
Jul 31, 2003 8:39 AM
this year's TdF prologue was 4.03 miles long and won by Bradley McGee in 7 minutes 26 seconds--that's 32.54 mph, all-out, for 4 miles, by the world track champion.

you mentioned you were big/little combo running 30-35 mph for over a mile, and felt you could go another couple cogs higher--this implies either on a (downhill) false flat or riding with a substantial tailwind, or both.

how about today or tomorrow going back to the course (or a similar course with less dangerous traffic), starting from a dead stop, riding it halfway then turning around (1.5 mi out, 1.5 mi back), and doing your own timing? let's hear the results online tomorrow.
reality checkTriphop
Jul 31, 2003 8:45 AM
JS Haiku is right on.

He did say he was moving at the start, "He stood by the start line and hit it when I passed,...." I would think if he was already travelling at max speed when the clock started that would give a serious advantage to the time. Add that to the false flat and a tail wind...he is gonna have a real fast time.
What I said...filtersweep
Jul 31, 2003 10:48 AM
...and was roundly flamed...?
I suppose anything is possible but,mainframe
Jul 31, 2003 8:48 AM
having read this board for more than 2yrs., I don't recall anyone claiming your level of performance. As Doug said, 25mph would be very good even when considing the many dedicated cyclist that populate our board. Some skepticism is to be expected.
having read these boards for more than 2 yrs.,ET
Jul 31, 2003 9:42 AM
I can recall *loads* claiming his level of performance. :-)
Well Aaron, you did set a record. 1'48" 1142 views. nmDave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 8:58 AM
This actually made me chuckle.aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 9:05 AM
Thanks everyone for your feedback, positive and otherwise. Whether you all believe me or not, I am sincere. I did the ride with a witness, my friend who helped out and I will be repeating this many more times especially because of all the skepticism my post elicited. I have to say that I'm kinda pissed off and I don't think I'm going to post any more replies to this particular thread, however you will hear from me in the future with results from subsequent tests and depending on those results maybe some of you who live in or near the bay area might want to meet up and see where the logic breaks down. As for now, I don't see where any mistakes were made and can only say it must be a false flat and/or tailwind. Like I said, I don't know any of you and I have no reason to lie. I thought you'd be helpful and to an extent you were in letting me know that there MUST be something contributing to a false result. Do you think I would open myself up to such a persecution if I really knew what the hell any of this meant?!
Aaron, you are welcome on this board anytime.......................nmDave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 9:10 AM
Yeah we haven't had a good swarm like this in awhile. nmOldEdScott
Jul 31, 2003 9:13 AM
J's Carmichael 3 mile TT results & position critique requestJS Haiku Shop
Jul 31, 2003 9:19 AM
i'm sorry aaron, but i couldn't help it.

at lunch i decided to compare my results on a mostly flat 3-mile time trial course. it's a tree-canopied gently curving loop course that's very lightly trafficked.

results: approximtely 3 miles in 1 minute, 30 seconds. now i know most of you will be sceptical, but i've been dialing in my position and the bike was just tuned-up and fitted with a new chain and new rear tire. i was going about 135 mph for well over a mile, and felt like i could go faster still, if not for the front end coming off the ground.

btw, please critique my position.
LMAO....... nmDave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 9:22 AM
J's Carmichael 3 mile TT results & position critique requestbrownshadow
Jul 31, 2003 9:45 AM
That's what Aaron LOOKED LIKE! Just kidding. ;O)
Hope you're not bringin' that bike to the Thrill ride tonite!TNSquared
Jul 31, 2003 9:50 AM
but if ya do, will ya give me leadout for the stop sign sprints?

:)
tried that once...up_hiller
Jul 31, 2003 5:56 PM
face full of exhaust - note the routing on that bike. typical of sport bikes. There's a reason the pros ride behind scooters...
Actually, I was joking...TNSquared
Jul 31, 2003 7:27 PM
People with my lack of speed needn't bother with a sprint leadout. I can't stay close enough to J to get a leadout when he's on the Surly, much less something that has a gas tank on it.

I know that exhaust you got was no fun, though. I get it, too, just that in my case it's from public buses slowly leaving stop lights. :)
re: I did the Carmichael 3 mile test - Great jobBrokenSpoke
Jul 31, 2003 9:15 AM
Hi Aaron - Don't let all this get to you. What everyone is trying to say, in a somewhat tactless manner, is that they are skeptical. The best thing to do would be to expoy the magnet to the Spinenergy's so you can use your cyclocomputer. Make sure it is properly calibrated using the rollout method, place a mark on your wheel and make one complete revolution on the sidewalk. Measure the distance from the start point to the endpoint and measure the distance. Enter this value into the computer. Once calibrated, find a starting point on the road and go out 3.0 miles. Ride the distance, wait the 10 minutes and repeat the test in the opposite direction. This should give you an accurate average and negate and wind or road issues. I would also avoid having your friend in the truck, though I can understand the reasoning. If this is not practical, or safe, have him follow at least 10-15 yards behind. Good luck and ejony cycling.
You seem sincere, but..............Len J
Jul 31, 2003 9:16 AM
The probability of a relative newbie to the sport, being genetically gifted enough to average the kind of speed you mentioned for 3 miles are astronomical.

Most of the experienced riders that I know could not maintain that speed on a flat with no wind for 10 seconds let alone 5 minutes.

It could be true but my guess would be one of the following:

1.) Tailwind. Moving air out of the way becomes increasingly difficult the faster you go (the resistance increases exponentially). At 30+ mph, it should have felt and sounded like you were in a howling wind. Anything less than that and it was a tailwind.

2.) Improperly calibrated speedometer in the truck. Even the cops give you 10mph (on a 55mph speed limit) which is 18% for speedo error. This can be caused by changing tires or just wear & tear. 82% of 31 mph is 25.5 mph, which would still be an amazing time for a cyclist with 3 months experience, believable, but amazing.

3.) Improperly laid out course. see #2 above if you used the same odometer.

4.) False flat. It was actually slightly downhill (optical illusion)

5.) All of the above.

Now all that being said, if it is actual (and I would verify it with an out & back TT with a calibrated bike computer) you should immediatly quit your job, hire a coach, train extensively and let us know which number you are wearing at the TDF next year. By my calculations you would have finished around 25th at the Tour prologue this year (you would have beaten 174 Pros).

Now do you appreciate the skepticism?

Len
Yes, now I do appreciate the skepticism...aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 9:23 AM
and I know I said I wasn't going to reply anymore to this thread. The bottom line is that if I made some kind of mistake, I'll own up to it and let everyone else know where the breakdown occurred. I'm so new to this, I had no idea that the time would be seen as such a big deal but your post makes it sound very uncredible. However, I was there, riding it and I know my lungs were bursting and my legs were dead as I crossed and that was credible in my book.
I did 8500 miles last year............Len J
Jul 31, 2003 9:28 AM
and have been riding for most of 20 years.

When I do the 10 mile LT tt my lungs are bursting and my legs are dead. That means that you did go all out.

BTW, my best average for the 10 miles is 25MPH.

Good luck with the next test & the fitness.

Len

PS. If it is true, will you always say "I remember those guys on RBR that didn't believe me" when you are riding thru France?
I got to bust you one this oneLC
Jul 31, 2003 9:25 AM
There is no frickin way you could have really done it. I don't even know any of anyone on my race team, including cat 2's, that could do it. I bet you can't even get near 7 min. let alone break 6 min. Do the test again on a different course, with a different watch/time keeper, and then you will see a more realistic time.
Retest as suggested and prove 'em all wrong...TNSquared
Jul 31, 2003 10:02 AM
or prove your initial results wrong. If you are sincere about wanting to know where you stand, and I think you probably are, then re-testing is clearly the thing to do.

Several folks have pointed out the *possible* flaws with your first test. Do it again, in the manner J and others have suggested (i.e. properly calibrated computer, out-n-back course, accurately measured course, etc.)

If your result is not as good, nothing to worry about. It just means you're human like the rest of us rather than some undiscovered super phenom.

If you get the same result, just think how good it will feel to know it is legitimate - especially now that you understand how outstanding it is.

todd
What's more important is the data that you can get from this...James OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 10:10 AM
Make sure that you record your average HR & Power (if you use power) for each of the efforts.

Take the higher of the two averages (HR), and base your training zones on that number.

If you're using power, average the two results together and reduce them by 10%. Add and subract 10 watts, and that's your zone for training LT. LT is the key ability that you want to develop, and the one that will help you win races (and, based on the results above, you should race and do well).
Is Radical Ron back for another go 'round? nmbnlkid
Jul 31, 2003 10:18 AM
re: I did the Carmichael 3 mile test - RESULTS- Feedback Pleasealiensporebomb
Jul 31, 2003 11:25 AM
Even though his results are Chris Boardman/Graehm Obree
level, and even though we're sceptical...

Something in me wants to believe him so I can look at the
OLN in a few years and see this guy blazing across the
french countryside.

Keep trying and let us know the results. I don't do that
great on it. In fact, reading this makes me want to hang
up the bike.

But I won't.
No pro aspirations and More ambiguous data...aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 12:16 PM
well alien, thanks for that but at 35 years of age, my window passed long ago to take up cycling as a profession. something interesting to note, though...while on today's ride during lunch, we tested our speed on a flat section, with a strong HEAD wind and sustained 26 MPH for about 3/4 mile. this was using a cyclocomputer that is dead-on. then we ran out of straight road and had to turn off. i'm still pretty puzzled by all of this. the results. the reaction and feedback.
Which part are you puzzled by?James OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 12:32 PM
Sorry to say, but you pretty much invited the reaction. What, in the way of feedback, were you looking for?

You've got to realize that there are many on this board (myself included) that have been cycling, training and racing for many years and may NEVER post the kind of time that you did. Based on our collective experience, it's hard to imagine someone who is a "newbie" turning times that Pro cyclists would turn.

I'll have to admit that some of the reactions were pretty harsh, but it's been my experience that the majority of posters in cycling forms are harsh on each other. No one seems to respect the "play nice" rule...

On a serious note, do the test again and collect some HR data. This will be very useful to you if you want to develop a training program. On another note, you'll probably do VERY well in Masters races. Often you'll find ex-pro, Cat 1 & Cat 2 racers in the 35+ Masters groups. You should be able to hang with these guys no-problem, and it's a lot of fun! (just make sure that your pack handeling skills are up to snuff first, though).
By this...aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 12:45 PM
I guess due to my relative newness to the sport and ignorance of what times are considered not-of-this-world I was puzzled by the harsh reaction. Actually shocked. I was just elated and wanted to share. That's all. If someone doubted it, then all they had to do was say so but for me and my integrity to be attacked as though I'm lying or making up a story or comparing me to some dubious character named Radical Ron that I don't even know of, it just rubbed me the wrong way. Thin skinned? Maybe a bit but I guess I was expecting a little more of a gentle handling. I have noticed a very distinct difference in the cameraderie (or lack of) bewteen dirt riders and road riders and while I have gotten fully hooked on road riding, I can't say I enjoy the lack of friendliness. And of course this all goes back to those threads about roadies not waving or saying hi to each other as they pass on the road. I always say Hi. I'm going to retest over and over again on different routes with more people checking times and I will be forthright and honest in my results. Like I said before, I had nothing to gain by posting (I don't know any of you and you don't know me) but it seems my reputation (or lack of) has started out poorly only because of my zeal and ignorance. My thanks to those that posted constructive replies. Today was a real eye opener.
I know where you're coming from...James OCLV
Jul 31, 2003 1:07 PM
Coming from the 'dirt' myself, there is a definate difference in the "friendliness" factor amongst roadies.

Listen, don't re-test just to satisfy everyone here. Re-test to get some useful data, set up a program for improving, and re-test again to check your progress. That's all.

Don't take this stuff personally, and don't let it affect your opinion of 'roadies'. There are some good ones (friendly) out there.
Radical Ron and an apologyDave Hickey
Jul 31, 2003 1:11 PM
I agree that this post took on a life of it's own. I joined in and if I offended you, I'm sorry. Radical Ron was a fake person who turned out to be a RBR regular using a false screen name. Radical Ron made all kinds of outragous claims. For months, RR had the most RBRer's thinking he was a real person. Whenever someone new comes on and makes some pretty spectacular claims, it's greeted with some doubt.

Please continue to post as you are a great addition the the forum................

Dave
Thanks, Dave. Accepted.aarontoy
Jul 31, 2003 1:33 PM
I'm just a regular guy. In love with my bike and hammering hard. I love the speed. I love the thrill. I have spent the last year or so soaking up everything I can find on cycling. I bought tools. I have 2 stands. I got some cool clothes. Maybe fred in some people's eyes but I have a body that makes me feel not too ashamed to be in a cycling kit. The biggest rush of my short cycling experience was that metric century I did. I was there on my supergo housebrand bike with my nashbar shorts and guys in full team kits on Italian bikes were giving me cold looks at the bottom of hills. I just smiled, licked my chops and blew up the hill and gave 'em the look on the way up and showed 'em my big, muscled ass with nashbar logo firmly planted as I pedaled away, dancing up the hill in the big ring. That's when I felt that maybe I had *finally* found a sport that might suit me well. I'm gonna keep all this in perspective...the 4000+ views and the replies and skepticism as well as the support, and continue to post and hopefully as people get to know me and what I'm about I won't be met with so much scrutiny. I mean, come on...it's just about riding bikes. BTW, have since upgraded past nashbar stuff not that it matters. ;-P
"Big muscled ass" just about says it all.gcbgcb
Jul 31, 2003 6:18 PM
This guy has fallen in love with himself. The pictures, the detailed history of his every thought and ride...Enough. The window has closed. Don't let the door hit your "big muscled ass" on the way out.
LOL - I was thinking the same thing when I read that post. nmKristin
Aug 1, 2003 7:26 AM
Another factorjtolleson
Jul 31, 2003 8:45 PM
may have been history with another board member whose main introduction to the forum was talking about himself and inviting others to do the same, who ultimately kind of alienated folks. Your reference to having a "sprinter's build" was so reminiscent that even I felt myself bristle and I know you aren't him.

I have followed this thread with interest because although I know my own 3-mile tt time (don't EVEN ask) I am more of a distance person over speed, and fully in the recreational category, though devoted.

It was a convergence, probably, of several posts that attracted what you sought -- opinions. Well, everyone has one, and on the internet (as opposed to in person) folks are willing to express them way more rudely.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Dave, was Radical Ron outed? Who WAS he?OldEdScott
Aug 1, 2003 5:11 AM
I must have missed that.
No pro aspirations and More ambiguous data...aliensporebomb
Jul 31, 2003 1:04 PM
Perhaps your window passed but if you can do that on a
consistent basis you could place well in local races as
a high category racer.

You'd be a local guy that everyone talks about "he just
popped out of nowhere in his mid thirties - nobody knows
why he didn't come around before, he just magically
appeared...."

That kind of thing.

I can't go that fast.....yet anyway.

I still need to do my 3 mile TT now that I've had a few
rest days after my RBR ride (52 miles with a 63 miler
a few days before).
by the numbers...crestlinefarm
Jul 31, 2003 12:49 PM
Just for grins, I decided to pull the gain ratios off of Sheldon Brown. Since I don't have all the info, I had to gues at some of the numbers. If you were running:
53 x 11 gear combination
700 x 23 tires
You would be sustaining 80+ rpm for 5'50" to achieve 30.1 mph. Not unbelievable in my book, considering the rolling start, but certainly commendable.
re: I did the Carmichael 3 mile test - RESULTS- Feedback PleaseMatt Britter
Jul 31, 2003 2:22 PM
After reading Arrontoy message I got my Carmicheal book out to verify the describtion. On page 69 it talks about the 3 mile, in Step one it comments on the wind conditions, as in none.

To give Arrontoy the benefit of the doubt, as he did state he is a newbie. Most cyclist will learn to a "real" TT number you need to make an out & back course. So the assumation that experienced cycle know was lost on this newbie. Everyone learns from mistakes no reason for burning at the stake.

Arrontoy go make off a 1.5mi out, put down a cone, rock, or what not, have your buddy stay at the Start/Finish with a stop watch and go for it. (Some else I think above suggested this already?)
Then come back and impress us with your time!
-mb
I can't believe you guys are missing this . . .jefajones
Jul 31, 2003 5:33 PM
"IF" this was done on a TT bike with a skin suit, aero helment, disk rear, Hed3 front, and of course, aero bars the time average speed would be even greater. Due to the high speed the aero goodies would be very substantial, maybe meaning he is faster than ALL the riders in the TDF prolouge.
I can't believe you guys are missing this . . .crosscut
Jul 31, 2003 7:24 PM
You got it, jefajones. Nice catch. I truelly can't believe how everyone got sucked into this thread. Wow. In the future everyone needs to really think a little before wasting their time responding to a bullshitter.
I can't believe you guys are missing this . . .aliensporebomb
Aug 1, 2003 6:54 AM
What if he is what he says he is though?

What if he's just some guy who was born to do this and
never got 'discovered' like Lance and others had?

I'll use an example: years ago an editor of Guitar Player
magazine was at a flea market in california and saw a man
who exhibited extreme talent in one particular area...

He was looking around and there was a guy with a special
double necked guitar. He had a small amplifier and the
guy was playing both necks of the guitar at the same time
and was phenomenally talented - basically playing like
Chet Atkins and Speedy West at the same time.

He apparently dazzled him with a virtuosity he'd never
seen on the guitar (and he'd seen all the pros) and
climaxed his performance by playing both parts on the
same neck and ended with a flourish.

He ran over to introduce himself and handed the guy his
business card but he sort of fumbled around and looked
nervous and the man's older father came over thinking he
was accosting the younger man.

When he said "I've never heard guitar played like this
before, the world should know about this - he's amazing.."
The man said "See, he doesn't really understand what
you're talking about..." Turns out he was a savant of
some type and just functioned at a very high level at
one particular thing.

In this case, we have someone who is high-functioning at
a number of things and cycling might be it.

I don't really care if it is fake or not, but don't you
want to believe for a second? Or is it too painful for
some of you guys who've hauled your carcass all over the
roads of north america for decades and a beginner comes
out of the chute and blows everybody's doors off?

You have to admit this has stimulated discussion on what
is or is not possible.