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Totalled my Seven Axiom-Like back up Klein better(14 posts)

Totalled my Seven Axiom-Like back up Klein bettertuscany
Jul 21, 2003 1:37 PM
I broke the top and down tubes on my 4 month old Seven Axiom a week ago and Seven just called and said it is not repairable. Since I broke the Seven I bought a Klein Q-carbon compact for $1250.00. I was going to buy a bad weather bike this winter anyway to save the Seven so I just moved the time table up. The Seven was set up as my dream bike, full Dura-Ace, HED wheels, all the toys. The Klein is very basic spec. Some 105 with a lot of Tiagra.

Anyway after a week of riding the Klein I think it is stiffer and just as fast as the Seven (if not faster) and fits exactly the same. Insurance is paying for the Seven frame. Nothing else is damaged excpet the fork.

What would you guys do? Take the insurance money and transfer the parts over to the Klein and buy another cheap frame for a winter bike? I can't believe that a "cheap" bike with bottom end parts feels as good as a $4500 "dream machine" but it does.
re: Totalled my Seven Axiom-Like back up Klein betterFender
Jul 21, 2003 1:48 PM
how did you break it?

I would just transfer the parts from the Seven to the Klein and sell the parts on the Klein. Save your insurance money for a nice set of wheels or a vacation to France next year to watch the tour.
re: Totalled my Seven Axiom-Like back up Klein bettertuscany
Jul 21, 2003 2:07 PM
I hit a car while I was climbing at about 12 mph. Just
doing an easy warm down after an interval session.
My own stupid fault, not anybody elses
Actually I am a little disappointed that
a $2750 frame buckled by hitting a car
at 12 mph climbing a hill. The front rim
was not even knocked out of true
(I had my open pro rims on at the time).
I can't really complain though since it was 100%
my own fault. Thank god my home owners insurance
will cover it.
I can't believe you call a $1250 frame a beaterKristin
Jul 21, 2003 2:00 PM
That's more than my "good" frame. :D
I can't believe you call a $1250 frame a beatertuscany
Jul 21, 2003 2:15 PM
Krstin I reviewed my post to see if I used
the word "beater" in it and I did not. If
I suggested it I did not mean to. I was
referring to the Klein as a back up bike for
weather I did not want to ride the good bike in
I ride 10,000 to 12,000 mile a year and thought
a second bike was a good idea before this
happened. My only reference to being being down
scale was to the parts. Actually the frame has
proven itself the equal or possibly superior to the
Seven. The price was also for the whole bike complete
new, not just the frame.
Where's the "harsh aluminum" crowd?Leroy
Jul 21, 2003 2:25 PM
I made my beloved Cannondale a promise that I'd chime in everytime some posts said something nice about aluminum. This may be the most extreme comparison, yet.
right here ;)gtx
Jul 21, 2003 2:39 PM
just kidding...

actually, Klein was in many was responsible for the "harsh alum" misconception because they used to use very steep geometry--74 STAs combined with short c-stays. Well, those days are gone. Check here--73 STAs and longish (41.4) c-stays. I wonder if Trek pushed for this or if it was Gary's idea?

http://www.kleinbikes.com/tech_guide/frame_geometries.asp
Here's another onecdale02
Jul 21, 2003 3:09 PM
I have a Cannondale CAAD5 and a Seven Axiom Ti. Sometimes I'm hard pressed to think of a favorite, both bikes ride differently, but I like them both a lot. No bike envy here, which is nice.

That being said, I'm comming off of a great ride I had yesterday 70miles in beautiful weather we had in the northeast yesterday afternoon.... the bike felt particulary good and I had a great ride.... I was on the Seven.

sounds like you like the Klein a lot...I'd hang onto the money and take your time deciding. bike shopping is fun.
it's all smoke and mirrorsterry b
Jul 21, 2003 2:38 PM
At a high enough price point they all feel about the same to me. I was surprised at first, and as I've ridden more and added more to the garage I'm finding none of them is so significantly better or worse than any other one that the differences would rate a "wow." Plenty will disagree with me (go visit the Serotta forum where they all know something I don't) but since there are no quantitative measurements, we can never really say.

If I were collecting the frame insurance, and if it was a big enough dollop I'd probably pick the sexiest frame that was catching my fickle eye for the moment, put the Seven components on it and if there was anything left over, upgrade the parts on the Klein. "Sexiest" doesn't necessarily mean most expensive. Pick something you've always wanted.
Totalled Seven Axiom @12mph???CritLover
Jul 21, 2003 7:03 PM
Another Axiom rider here... can't believe you did so much damage the way you described the accident. I have been in about a dozen wrecks with my bike in the last four years and can't imagine it breaking at 12mph! I've been in 15 rider pile ups @ 28mph, huge NYC potholes, even slid across a wet sewer cap, and I all I have to show for it are scratched decals and scarred body.

As far as the ride, I have an aluminium Litespeed (w/carbon stays) that I wanted to set up super-stiff for crits, but I barely use it b/c the Seven is so damn comfortable. The day after I ride aluminum, I get on the ti, and it's a dream ride.

If I had picked the Seven geometry 6 months after I'd got the bike, it would have been a totally different ride. My needs and wants changed so much from the point of purchase.(For those who are unfamiliar with 7's, you get to spec what type of ride you want from the bike- stiff, compliant,etc). Maybe what you wanted when you ordered it should have been stiffer (like the Klein). If it was built to be a stiff responsive sprint machine, there would probably be no comparison.

One last thing, unless you have two bikes side by side to do your rides on, you can't fully tell the ride difference. Since you got thje Klein after the Axiom was gone, your judgement might be a little skewed.

Then again, lots of people have a material preference, so maybe the ti wasn't for you. Hey not everybody wants a Mercedes, right? Ride the Klein for 3 months and see how it feels. YOu can always change your mind later.
Totalled Seven Axiom @12mph???tuscany
Jul 21, 2003 7:17 PM
The accident was exactly as described. I have
a witness who saw it as far as the circumstances
and I was in a 39/23 seated going uphill. If anyone
is wondering I am 5 foot 9 and weigh 150 pounds so
I am not exactly a big guy.

I have no reason to be dishonest about it. As a
matter of fact it would sound a lot more dramatic if
I said I as descending at 40 mph when it happenned.

I requested the frame to be stiffer than my Litespeed
Tuscany which I rode for 27,000 miles but it wasn't.
So I have ridden ti plenty and know what it feels like.
Totalled Seven Axiom @12mph???CritLover
Jul 21, 2003 8:34 PM
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you were dishonest, it's just that I can't believe how much damage it received from that speed. Maybe hitting a solid object rather than another rider, etc., caused the extreme damage. All you physicists out there could probably chime in here.

I also wasn't saying that you don't know what ti feels like. Ti can feel different depending on many variables, as can any material. However, the Tuscany is not considered a stiff ti bike, so asking for the Seven to be stiffer than it wasn't really asking for a stiff ride. Had you asked for it to be stiffer than an Ultimate, then you could guarantee that it would be super stiff.

And if you're completely unhappy with it, you should contact them and let them know it did not meet your ride requests. I couldn't see them blowing you off.
Totalled Seven Axiom @12mph???xcandrew
Jul 21, 2003 9:21 PM
You can break any and every bike at 12 mph if you run into something solid at 12 mph. 12 mph is not slow... if you think running-wise like I do, that is 5:00 per mile, a pretty good race pace for a good runner and faster than most people can run for a mile. Now run directly into a something solid at that pace... if you go into a wall with your head or something like that, you would likely be dead. Or imagine riding along at 12 mph right past a building... if the wall suddenly shifted into the front of your path (like a sliding door) just as you are passing without slowing a bit, I don't see how you couldn't break any frame and injure yourself.

I'm not surprised that the wheel didn't taco. Wheels are very strong radially and if you hit it straight on without too much side load, you might dent the rim where it bottomed out. It would taco if you hit hard enough that you detension all the spokes near the hit. I'm sure that this would bend or break most frames.

Many high speed crashes don't damage frames because people go down on the pavement and don't run into anything solid straight on (with weight behind the hit). You could go down at 40 mph (and even tangle with another rider and bike) and your frame might still survive depending on how it hits. In these cases, the forward speed doesn't matter because it is friction that eventually slows the bike. The main hit in that kind of crash comes from potential energy of the frame dropping to the ground from vertical, something that doesn't change with bike speed. It's the same reason that helmets are basically designed to protect your head from a fall of the vertical distance from your head in the riding position to the ground.
Kleins hold up well in a crashjohnnybegood
Jul 24, 2003 8:08 AM
Tuscany. I was catching up on old posts and saw this thread on your crash. Sorry about your crash and the damage to your bike. I did a similar stupid trick on my 1999 Klein Quantum Race with Klein's carbon fiber fork. Front wheel is an Open Pro on a King hub with 32 DT Swiss db spokes laced 2X. I turned my head to talk to someone and drifted to the right, crashing into the back of a parked Blazer! (don't try this at home)I was somewhere between 15 and 17 mph and came to a dead stop against the back of the Blazer, then fell to the ground. I weigh 240, so there was alot of momentum. Much of it was transfered to the bike. My body dissapated the remaining momentum into the back of the blazer. I was very lucky to escape with only bruises and a small scrape. The rim tacoed and many spokes were bent. Three spokes pulled right out of the rim. However, there was absolutely no damage to frame or fork! No bent, dented, or cracked tubes. I examined every mm of each weld with a magnifying glass and found no cracks (at least none that had propagated through the paint). When I expressed my surprise to my LBS/Klein dealer, he commented that he would not have expected any damage because the Kleins are over-engineered and very strong!