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Deep Dish Wheels and decending(10 posts)

Deep Dish Wheels and decendinghikerryank
Jul 21, 2003 6:37 AM
Could someone please tell me why deep dish wheels would be a bad choice for superlong decents. It seems to me that having a more aero wheel would make you faster but good old Phil is saying that they are a bad choice because of how rigid they are.
why is rigid bad?DougSloan
Jul 21, 2003 7:09 AM
I've gone near 60 mph with Zipp 404 on front and disc on the back. Rigid is very, very good when descending; noodly would be bad.

I think it's pure myth that wheels can provide noticeable vertical compliance, anyway. Lateral rigidity is very important for handling, though.

Conditions are VERY important....CARBON110
Jul 21, 2003 7:45 AM
I have the 404s too Doug, and I am sure you notice the cross winds on decents can be hairy when you have wind combined with Large vehicles going the opposite way. Even among a group of fast riders turbulance is very noticable. However, the Zipps inparticular are so fast up,down or flat that it is worth the risk. I would hate to see people who have a hard time handling a bike ride deep dish wheels....deep dish being 48 mm + deep. Not a novice wheelset to be takn without consideration. I stay away from most guys with deep wheels if there is wind in a race...unless its flat. By the way...the wind actually increases your speed with cross winds
why is rigid bad?hikerryank
Jul 21, 2003 7:46 AM
That is what I was trying to figure out. It was never explained during the TDF coverage but I think it was Phil who said that. They refered to a stage several years ago where Jan used deep carbon wheels and said that was the reason he lost contact with the group. I don't know which year to which they were refering.
I'm glad your's have been so good to you. I'm not the strongest climber and was hoping the 404's I have on the way would give me an advantage on decents and the flats. But my heart skipped a beat when OLN said they were a liability on decents.
carbon braking surface problemsDougSloan
Jul 21, 2003 8:09 AM
Jan's problem was that some carbon wheels have really bad braking surfaces, which make for unpredictable braking. They tend to lock up easily. The newer ones, along with brake pads for them, have gotten better. Had nothing to do with rigidity.

carbon braking surface problemsrogue_CT1
Jul 21, 2003 8:48 PM
In '97 Jan was using a set of Campy Bora carbon wheels and he was getting a shimmy when he was braking on the decents. Riis loaned him his ADA wheels, the very same brand of wheel he was using today, and the problem was gone after that. I don't know why Phil said that. In years past Lance used the ADA wheels for his climbing bike as did Jalabert last year.
maybe Jan is just a crappy descender, then nmDougSloan
Jul 22, 2003 7:13 AM
totally agree...especially at my weight (190)ColnagoFE
Jul 21, 2003 8:12 AM
I have a set of CXp33s built with 14/15s and a set of open pros built with revs. The CXPs are a better descending and flat road wheel by far because they are much stiffer. I can ride the Open pros fast, but I have to be a little more careful about torqueing them when it gets fast. I've never induced a shimmy with them yet, but I can feel the possibility is there.
re: Deep Dish Wheels and decendingRusty Coggs
Jul 21, 2003 7:48 AM
There are times when Phil has his head wedged.There are alot of times that he should just stay away from the equipment side of it.
re: Deep Dish Wheels and decendingtobinb
Jul 21, 2003 10:03 AM
Yeah, i thought that was a strange comment. heres a transcript from the live feed:

By the way, what do you make of Ullrich's wheel choice?

Vaughters: Oh, I think he'll be fine. The wheels he used in '97 were crap compared to the newer ones. Boy, this descent off the Tourmalet is a looooong scary one.