|Is Tyler Hamilton two-faced?||Spoiler|
Jul 14, 2003 4:58 PM
|After stage 2 he said, "I want to get to the team time trial so I can help Carlos Sastre to repay him for the help he's been giving me all season."
In his July 11 journal he wrote,
"I guess my primary reason for being here up until now has been to see if I can hang on and lend support to my good friend Carlos Sastre.
He has done so much for me over the last year-and-a-half that I feel like I should make the most of every opportunity to repay him. I wanted to be a contributing factor in the team time trial for him, and tomorrow we will see if I still have what it takes to do some work for him in the mountains."
What happened? I don't see Tyler hanging around nursing Carlos up the cols. Maybe he's just controlling Lance and Jan, keeping an eye on them till Carlos catches up.
In his latest journal, I can't seem to find any mention of Carlos Sastre. I can't find any mention of a changing of team tactics or team leader.
This situation could have some distant resemblance to a Badger who said he'd help a teammate but changed his mind cause his legs felt too good to keep the promise.
|Not worthy of anyone's response (don't feed the trolls) -NM||Tig|
Jul 14, 2003 6:08 PM
|I'll reply anyways... even if Spoiler is trolling...||russw19|
Jul 14, 2003 7:36 PM
|It's obvious you wrote this, not knowing at all what happens in a Grand Tour or what happened today in the race. First off, Tyler's best way to help would be to limit the damage inflicted by the Armstrong group. Sastre still had Luttenberger with him in his group. And they lost exactly 30 seconds on Tyler and Armstrong's group today. Second, you don't withdrawl from the race if you are in 5th position overall. You continue to suffer and see if you can ride your way back to health. Tyler spent over an hour after monday's stage in medical control because he had to have 2 liters of fluids replaced intravenously due to his dehydration. See the whole time he was up marking the Armstrong group, no team mates were bringing him water. And he is the designated team leader, not Sastre. He is who everyone else on the team should be working for. And if his collarbone feels good enough, he has a shot at the podium.. Sastre does not, with or without Hamilton's help.. he won't make the Top 3. Tyler may. If he really wants to repay his team mate Sastre, the rest of the team, and his sponsors and fans, he owes it to them to finish as high up the GC as he can.
|I'll give that an "Amen".||firstrax|
Jul 14, 2003 7:49 PM
|where to start.....||Spoiler|
Jul 14, 2003 7:56 PM
|"It's obvious you wrote this, not knowing at all what happens in a Grand Tour or what happened today in the race....First off, Tyler's best way to help would be to limit the damage inflicted by the Armstrong group."
Welllll, I know enough to know that the best way to limit the damage inflicted by the Armstrong group on Alpe d'Huez is to sit on the back and be a passenger, not to ATTACK the group even when you know you can't get away. This is exactly what Tyler did Sunday.
"Second, you don't withdrawl from the race if you are in 5th position overall. You continue to suffer and see if you can ride your way back to health."
With that reasoning, how in the hell can anyone feel sympathy for Belocki when he withdraws from the race instead of continuing on? He was in SECOND place.
"See the whole time he was up marking the Armstrong group, no team mates were bringing him water."
No teammates were bringing anyone any water. See?
I agree that Tyler has the best shot at podium and should be team leader and owes it to the team to try his best. Why is he telling everyone he'll help Sastre win while he's riding as team leader. Who rides in front of whom?
|where to start..... indeed||sctri|
Jul 14, 2003 9:06 PM
|Cmon man, what are you off about, trolling for a fight perhaps? And, at the expense of taking a cheap shot at Tyler, jeeze, that sure is a classy move. Granted you are entitled to your opinion, but I have no idea where you are comming for, or what your point is.
How can anyone feel sympathy for Belocki? That's a differnt issue, I respect Tyler for competeing even when he hurt, and I sympathize with Belocki because he cannot.
Tyler is not only the team captain, but also a team member, therefore he feels some loyalty to the guys who pull for him all year, and if he can support them he obviosally will do his best.
So what is your point? Should he state that he wont help he team? or that he isnt grateful for the work that they have done throughout the year(s) for him? Or perhaps you mean that he shouldnt challenge the leaders in the mountains and hang back so that everyone will know that he wants to support his team?
Wait, that doesnt make sense. Team members have roles, Tyler is the leader and the star. I wish him the best this tour and admire his guts for finishing as much, and as well as he has.
ps. perhaps this image might inspire some sympathy.
|should have started earlier||Spoiler|
Jul 14, 2003 10:13 PM
|"And, at the expense of taking a cheap shot at Tyler, jeeze, that sure is a classy move."
It wasn't meant as a cheap shot. It is an honest, tactical question. I could see how newbies, who don't understand racing team tactics would read it as a cheap shot instead of a tactical questions. Don't get all emotional.
"I have no idea where you are comming for, or what your point is."
So because you are clueless and have no sense of direction you label me a troll?
"How can anyone feel sympathy for Belocki? That's a differnt issue, I respect Tyler for competeing even when he hurt, and I sympathize with Belocki because he cannot."
I was, again, sarcastic, so you got lost. I merely brought up BeloKi to show how ridiculous generalizations like "you just don't drop out" are.
"Tyler is not only the team captain, but also a team member, therefore he feels some loyalty to the guys who pull for him all year, and if he can support them he obviosally will do his best."
I think he fully supported them, and by most accounts, pulled hardest in the TTT. Why didn't the team fully support him by reaffirming he was still the designated leader. I understand that sometimes a team has to "hedge their bets."
"So what's your point...that he isnt grateful for the work that they have done throughout the year(s) for him? Or perhaps you mean that he shouldnt challenge the leaders in the mountains and hang back so that everyone will know that he wants to support his team?"
I do believe he's grateful for the team's work. I just think that attacking the Armstrong group on Alpe d'Huez, and pulling them further away from his teammate Sastre further down the slopes isn't "hanging back".
He even said it hurt when he attacked, so why do it unless you want to break free from them? I admire him for the courage and would have been cheering him up the mountain the whole way. I think Sastre or the team should make some mention that they feel Tyler is still the only leader, just the way they started the Tour.
Jul 14, 2003 11:11 PM
|I'm sure at some point Tyler actually thought all he could do was help Sastre. That is obviously not the case any longer. Do they need to come out and say it explicitly? I don't think so--it is self-evident. You won't find many at this point who would bet on Sastre to finish ahead of Tyler in the GC, and that was not the case in stages 1-5 when Tyler's health was more in question.|
|that makes sense||Spoiler|
Jul 15, 2003 6:52 AM
Jul 15, 2003 9:20 AM
|If thats all you were after perhaps a more apt title would have been, "has tyler changed tactics" rather than the somewhat more imflamitory "two-faced".
|In an interview afterwards, Tyler said...||biknben|
Jul 15, 2003 9:45 AM
|...those surges off the front of the Armstrong group were not intended to be attacks. He was having trouble responding to quick surges by the other riders. He said when he felt the group was slowing, which would aid an attack, he continued at HIS pace to discourage others from jumping ahead. I think those statements are consistant with what we saw in the footage. He never got more than a few meters up the road. I wouldn't call those attacks.
The statements made earlier about helping his team mate were made when he thought that was the best he could do. He's the team leader. A very unselfish one too. When it became apparent that he could continue, it was his job to lead the team.
I'd ride for him any time. I just don't know if I'd ride behind him. :-)
|I think he's surprising everyone, himself included.||frankamo|
Jul 15, 2003 4:46 AM
|I think when he made those statements about the TTT, that's all anyone thought he was capable of doing - helping Sastre.
But with his recent performances, why shouldn't he keep trying for the podium? Just to stick to statements made shortly after his injury?
|don't care. he's my hero. (nm)||_rt_|
Jul 15, 2003 10:11 AM