|Very sad last night re car hits bike ride........||african|
Jul 10, 2003 5:57 AM
|last night was a very sad night for me as I went to the hospital to see my fellow cyclists and friends. It was not good seeing them all banged up, broken bones, cuts and road rash. It has been tough for a lot of us in the area to go riding. I strugled to ride tuesday and I know some people are not riding. I am going to ride again tonight.
On the bright side everyone will live, the injured all seem to have high spirits and a sence of humor. My one friend is quite happy to have some titanium in his leg, says his next bike will be titanium too. There is a huge Sunday ride planned where I guess we will show up in mass and have a great ride.
For some peoples views (some dumb views too) on this see this link to the local papers letters http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/10/Opinion/Common_sense_is_neede.shtml
|re: Very sad last night re car hits bike ride........||Continental|
Jul 10, 2003 6:22 AM
|Great link! I think the opinions expressed accurately reflect the attitudes of the automobile drivers we encounter. Many of these drivers don't think we should be on the road and expect cyclists to yield to cars in all circumstances. Personally, I go to extremes to avoid traffic because I think it's too dangerous to encounter motorists with these attitudes.|
|Hope your friends recover quickly.....||Tower|
Jul 10, 2003 6:33 AM
|Sounds like they are in good spirits.
The letters you linked to were pretty interesting, but not surprising. Some of those people are just ignorant. We've all been shouted at, brushed back, and the recipients of projectiles. However, I do feel we as cyclists have the obligation to follow the traffic rules. If that means 2 abreast, then it should be 2 abreast.
|Why does no one admit the >2 abreast?||94Nole|
Jul 10, 2003 6:59 AM
|While I do believe that this was and is a tragedy and do know that cylists, bicyclists and motorcyclists, are not respected on the roads, why does everyone yell about the ignorance of drivers? Cyclists, for the most part, are arrogant a$$holes and have no regard for motorists but expect full and absolute respect on the roads. They want it both ways.
I have been a automobile driver longer than a cyclist and cyclists generally do not follow the rules of the road. How many times have people here admitted habits of blowing stop signs and lights?
How many here do ride more than 2 abreast when inappropriate? If cyclists want to ride in a large group/peleton, go register and race/ride on streets that are closed for that purpose during a particular event.
I know that there are people who hate cyclists on roads under any condition. There are also those who expect the same respect for the rules when they are in their cars that you do while on your bike.
How about the grandson who is rushing his grandmother to the hospital but can't because there is a throng of inconsiderate cyclists taking up far more than their fair "share" of the road and merely flip off or yell profanity at the driver who politely sounds his horn?
"Share the Road" my a$$. We have rights. But they do too.
|And might I add?...||94Nole|
Jul 10, 2003 7:30 AM
|that my comments do not, in any way, take away the compassion I have for those who came close to losing their lives or were hurt in any way in this incident. It was certainly a tragedy that should and could have been avoided. It may be me or my son next.
It just seemed that all the comments/responses to the editorials were totally anti-auto and none that seemed to take any responsibility for the growing battle of cyclist vs. driver. I have seen so many cyclists who ride with a "I own the road" attitude while saddled up. This kind of "Go ahead, I dare you" or "we're entitled" attitude makes me sick and only makes the fire burn hotter.
We all know people are increasingly "losing it" in the world today (just pick up a paper) and all it takes is one time vs. a 3000-6000 vehicle and you will likely end up the topic of a discussion thread here. Continuing to pi$$ people behind the wheel off is not the answer to this ever-growing problem.
|you should write this in as a letter||kenyee|
Jul 10, 2003 8:09 AM
|Practicing a peloton is one thing, but it is illegal in places w/ the 2 abreast law.
Hope the cyclists recover. I doubt the guy has anything worth suing over though. He sounded too depressed to have anything left and his car is a beater...
|I just e-mailed the SPTimes........||biknben|
Jul 10, 2003 6:53 AM
|The one letter implying that cyclist should stick to the bike paths hit a nerve with me. As a cyclist who goes out of his way to obey traffic laws, I felt compelled to write back. Here's what I wrote:
The Pinellas Trail and most other multi-use trails/bike paths are not safe. These trails are used by children, joggers, dog-walkers, etc. This is no place for a group of cyclists traveling at 20 mph. When a "bike" path is reserved for only bikes, they will then be used by cyclists.
Some cyclists make a habit of disregarding traffic laws. They are wrong and should be cited for those violations. On the other hand, the motorists who honk their horns and feel the need to display their frustration should think twice. When was the last time they obeyed the speed limit on their way to work? Did they come to a "complete" stop at the last stop sign or did they just look both ways and roll through the intersection? Did they come to a complete stop at the red light before making a right turn. Do they use their turn signals at every turn. Do they leave a safe distance between themselves and the vehicle ahead of them?
Cyclists see these violations on a regular basis. If motorists are going to require change they had better be prepared to change also. There is no double standard. The cyclist have the same rights to use the roads as motorists. Both parties should obey the traffic laws. If they disobey them, they should not be surprised to see flashing lights coming up behind them.
I have been reading your posts and following the articles. Those pictures from the scene were very disturbing. Nearly unrecognizable bike parts laying all over the scene. I hope for a speedy recovery for all those involved. The response from the driver is scary. I hope that law enforcement takes are harder stance as their investigation continues.
The driver claims it was just an accident, that's all. If you're not going to take responsibility for your actions, then you should take the wheel of a motor vehicle.
|re: Very sad last night re car hits bike ride........||orange_julius|
Jul 10, 2003 7:49 AM
|Hi African, thanks for sending the link. One interesting |
aspect of the responses is the way that people tend to
bunch cyclists of all types into one type. Those damn
cyclists. They don't differentiate commuters, rec
cyclists, fitness and competitive cyclists.
I believe this is unfortunate to the more serious cyclists
because there will always be bad apples and these are what
people tend to remember! And now to some people this
justifies pushing cyclists off the road.
Because different types of cyclists have different needs
and ways of riding, a bike path is not the best option
for everybody. This is something that apparently most
people don't understand.
Reminds me of the many times my friends asked me why I
didn't ride on the sidewalks.
Conversely, there are also different kinds of drivers,
and I hope the kinds of the guy who caused this accident
will be taken off the road!
Anyways, most importantly for the time being, it is
good to hear that your friends are on their way to
|Bikes are toys, you silly person...||MShaw|
Jul 10, 2003 8:56 AM
|...didn't you know that? Thats' why we're supposed to ride on the sidewalk/bike path/MUT/etc.
Bikes surely can't go faster than 8-10mph.
It constantly amazes me how many times someone passes me then turns right right in front of me as I'm cruising down the road at 22mph. What? you couldn't tell how fast I was going when you passed me?
I've ranted other places about cyclists, both recreational and serious, running red lights and disobeying traffic rules so I won't here. We have to admit that when we do things like blowing through a red light, it gives the anti-bike people more ammunition to use against us. So, if you habitually disobey traffic rules, now is the time to stop. That group in FL could be you next week. Granted, it could be you even if you're JRA too, but we won't go into that.
One of the things I've thought about as punishment for drivers that hit/abuse cyclists is to force them to ride bicycles as their only form of transport for X months so they can see what its like. Probably change their views about riding on the roads...
|That's it! Any motorist found...||94Nole|
Jul 10, 2003 9:39 AM
|at fault in an accident involving a cyclist would have his license suspended like that of a drunk driver. Say for a year and would be made to ride a bicycle as his only transportation method.
On the other hand, a cyclist caught disobeying traffic rules would be banned from riding his bike for an equivalent amount of time. He would be required to drive an auto.
Seems fair to me. What's the problem with this?
|Commentary about the situation from a legal perspective||No_sprint|
Jul 10, 2003 7:57 AM
|Accident or not, whether the guy feels guilty or not, criminally charged or not, whacko or not, he was on the wrong side of the road, no matter what type of line he crossed, he is unquestionably responsible for the damage.
This is one easy civil lawsuit if the guy has anything at all to tap into.
Glad to hear the guys are feeling better. I lived with lots of metal in my body for years. I even kept it all after it was removed until it was stolen with lots of my other stuff.
|OH I LOVE...||seamus|
Jul 10, 2003 9:54 AM
|I love the driver's defense/justification/damnation of "yeah but cyclists run stop signs and ride more than two abreast". Yeah, some do. But JESUS! Are you going to tell me that MOST drivers break half a dozen laws every time they get behind the wheel?
Personally, I do think we, as cyclists, should follow the rules and laws of the road, because running stop signs and stuff does in fact infuriate drivers, which in turn perpetuates this weak-sauce justification for animosity towards cyclists.
But the next time some driver whines about cyclists running stop signs or riding in a pack, remind them of all the motorists speeding, cell phone in one hand, latte in the other, using a knee to pass on the the right or cross a double yellow, or flying though a yellow light that just turned red, or tapping the brakes at a stop sign instead of stopping.
|Change of subject....a little...||t0adman|
Jul 10, 2003 10:21 AM
|What is the legal way to approach a lineup of cars at a stop sign or signal? The bike messengers in downtown Seattle fly through traffic, cutting between cars, running up to the front. I see many cyclist moving up the far right of a lineup if there's space. I see others moving between two lines of cars. Is there a legal way to do this (is it legal)?|
|Change of subject....a little...||HetzelA|
Jul 10, 2003 11:44 AM
|I don't know the legality of the situation you've described, but I always wait my turn in line, just as I would in my car. When I'm on a bike, I'm never in a hurry to get anywhere. Don't want the ride to end too soon :-)|
|That has been debated here at length...||biknben|
Jul 10, 2003 1:02 PM
|The legality of it varies by location. Some will swear it's illegal and an absolute no-no. Others can't understand why it would be illegal. In my mind, there is no law that prohibits it in my area. I am required to stay right, that's it. Cars pass me on the left because I'm too slow. I pass cars on right because they are too slow. Seems fair to me.
For me it varies by situation. If approaching a red light I will pass on the right side if:
-I know I can get to the front before light changes.
-There is room to pass on right.
-I won't make it through the next green (have to wait through another cycle).
I will wait in line if:
-absolutely no way to get around cars.
-light is about to change anyway.
-There's only a couple cars ahead anyway.
-lots of traffic makes a right turn at light (I try not to block those who are trying to turn right on red).
-road is narrow and those cars that just passed me will have to wait to pass me again beyond light.