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Axiom, Legend or Vamoots????(9 posts)

Axiom, Legend or Vamoots????kelmeboyAZ
Jul 8, 2003 7:25 PM
Custom Seven Axiom, Serotta Legend Ti or Moots Vamoots? Is there an advantage to the carbon seatstays and special dropouts on the Legend ST model?
Can you get each custom fit, or just the 7?[nm]niteschaos
Jul 8, 2003 7:48 PM
Can you get each custom fit, or just the 7?[nm]kelmeboyAZ
Jul 8, 2003 8:34 PM
All can be custom fit!
Depends on what you want.Len J
Jul 9, 2003 3:35 AM
First of all, they are all customizable.

Second, in my experience, they all ride a little different. I would recommend that you ride them & decide. I found, that the Legend rode more like steel, the Seven was more cushy, and the Moots was somewhere in the middle. The Moots was the heaviest, the Legend the lightest. The Legend had the best paint. Although you can put any fork on any of the bikes, I hated the look of the Seven fork.

Seven & Serotta claim that the rides can be tunable but I'm not sure that Seven can duplicate the feel of a Serotta legend or that Serotta would duplicate the plushness of the Seven.

Moots had the prettiest welds, Serotta the prettiest lines.

At the end of the day, you won't get a bad bike from any of them (unless you have a bad fitter). I would recommend (for this much money) that you take a long test ride on each of them, using the same wheels, seat & tires, and decide for yourself.

With these three bikes, you can't go wrong.


BTW, I bought the Legend.
On the subject of test rides.ajn
Jul 9, 2003 8:08 AM
Len J's response raises a big question for me regarding the issue of "test riding". I too have been considering getting a new bike of the same general ilk, but other than an occasional Serotta, I have never seen any Moots or Seven or a host of other high end frames built up at any of the shops that carry them around here in the SF East Bay area, (they're usually just frames hanging on a wall), let alone with the same wheels, tires, etc. And even if they did happen to have one built up, the chances of that one being close enough to my particular size to make any test viable is limited too. So other than Treks, Litespeeds, etc., it seems like the chances of getting an accurate comparison of the rides of different less common bikes is almost impossible. Am I missing something here, or is this experience not uncommon? I'd appreciate some feedback.
Good question.Len J
Jul 9, 2003 8:36 AM
The real question is, would you buy one of these bikes without an adequate test ride? For me the answer was no.

Here is what I did.

I rode the Moots at one shop using my own wheels and seat.
I rode the Serotta at another shop that same afternoon with same wheels etc. Both rides were 30 miles. I arranged this ahead of time and both shops knew what I was doing. The chance at a $5,000+ sale is a great motivator. Serotta has a test ride program that the shop participated in so that frame was my size. The Moots happened to be the same size (57) if I needed an unusually large or small size I don't know what I would have done.
The Seven was harder. I happened to ride with a guy in an organized ride around my size who had a seven. I talked to him about the bike, struck up a relationship & he ended up switching bikes with me for about 25 miles (after he watched my handling skills). I rode a Spectrum TI when I went up to talk with Tom Kellogg.

The key thing (IMO) is to be patient. If you want immediate gratification, then you probably will have to go on some other factor other than test ride. I spent about a year thinking, reading, talking to anyone I saw on any of the high end Ti bikes I was looking at, paying particular attention to the things that they would change if they were going to do it over again, defining exactly what I wanted the bike to do for me, and figuring out how to ride as many of the bikes as I could.

At the end of the day, there are only small differences in bikes this well made. I figured out what I didn't like as much as what I liked. In the end, for me, the decider was the ride, the lines of the bike, and speaking to the sales people at the various companies (yes, you can call them up & talk bikes with them. I asked them all: "if you couldn't get a bike from the company you work for, who would you buy & why? Learned alot that I could validate when I talked to owners.).

For this much money, I wanted to be comfortable. Maybe I'm anal but, to each their own.

Hope this helps

City Cycles...Spiderman
Jul 9, 2003 9:09 AM
Check out City Cycles in SF. phone number 1-800-88-ELVIS. Clay Mankin is a great guy and has both serottas and sevens built up for test rides. I have a legend and love it. I have also owned the ottrott for about 2000 miles and would kill to get that bike back. I put about 30 miles on an ottrott ST and as far as i am concerned, it rides the best. The pivots are subtle but noticeable (sounds like a oxy moron but an incredible experience). You won't notice the ST just cruising on the flats, you WILL notice on turns, chip seal, crappy roads etc. Fantastic bike. I am sure teh Seven rides okay too, i have just never ridden one.
Sharp Bicycle in Lafayette, CAbisikletci
Jul 11, 2003 4:31 PM
test rode a 56cm Vamoots there and placed and order for the Vamoots SL the 6/4 Ti frame. They ordered two stock frames as well after mine. My setup is:

56cm Vamoots SL
Moots stem and post
King Threadless
Speedplay X1 Ti
Ksyrium SSL
Fizik Aliante Ti rails
Campy 10 with full Ti Cassette
Wipperman Stainless Steel Connex Chain
Newton Deda Bars

Took about 2 weeks because luckily they were finishing up the blasting of a 56cm frame. Otherwise it takes about 4 weeks for the frame to arrive at the LBS.
re: Axiom, Legend or Vamoots????My Dog Wally
Jul 9, 2003 9:31 AM
About four months ago, I spent a weekend testing a Serotta Legend, Seven Axiom, and Independent Fabrication Ti Crown Jewel. It was a close contest, but the Ti Crown Jewel was the winner, with the Legend in third place. If you're going to pop for a custom bike -- and want something unique, comfortable, and responsive -- you can't do better than a Ti Crown Jewel.