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Frame Damage thanks to UPS?!?!? What to do?(18 posts)

Frame Damage thanks to UPS?!?!? What to do?latinist
Jul 1, 2003 11:22 AM
So I anxiously spent the afternoon at work the other day, knowing that my new (to me) Marin Treviso was waiting at home. Once I got home, I got the bike together and took it out for a shakedown, and...disaster. I think UPS tweaked my rear derailleur hanger. Actually, I know UPS tweaked my rear derailleur hanger. It's only a little bit crooked, but the bike throws the chain into the spokes, and the chain gets jammed when I put it in the 12.

I'm assuming (hoping) that since it's a steel frame, The hanger can just be bent back into place without much trouble. But, should I file a claim with UPS? If they bent it, I'd like them to reimburse me to fix it. The seller did a damn fine job packing the bike, and he worked at a shop, so if the hanger was bent before, he could have just straightened it.

I know it's fixable, I just want to ride it without worrying about it. I'll post pics later to show the extent of the damage.

tough call...funknuggets
Jul 1, 2003 11:30 AM
You will need to show that the packing material was damaged in the spot where the damage would have been done. If the box is not damaged, you will have a difficult time proving fault of the shipper. It also depends on what you want to do. I strongly doubt the frame is toast, but you may get some estimates from your shock on a touch up... if necessary, and a realignment. Most shops will provide written estimates. UPS, for me was decent BUT... reimburses the shipper and not necessarily the recipient, so you may need to work something out with the shipper.

UPS is typically cool as they are only exposed to $100 of the total damage, especially if the item was insured.

tough call...latinist
Jul 1, 2003 11:47 AM
I spoke with the shipper beforehand, and he got extra supplemental insurance. I can show that the box was damaged, because the area near the rear derailleur was gone, the cardboard's been torn off or something. I'm taking it to Bikesport (excellent shop) on weds. We'll see what they say and I"ll go from there.

tough call...russw19
Jul 1, 2003 11:58 AM
I think this one is going to end up being "how much is your time worth to you..." type deal. Chances are, since it's a steel frame, you can bend it back just fine. If it wasn't bent past a 30 degree from vertical angle, it most likely can be fixed. That is going on the assumption that it hasn't been bent before. Once bent, it's like a paperclip... it will bend ever more easily until it snaps. But on a steel frame, even if that happens, you can still replace it thru a local framebuilder, so even then it's not that devastating.

I would be willing to bet that your local shop can fix it for between $10 and $20 so it will come down to how much time you are going to have to spend with UPS trying to get that money refunded to you, and how much your time is worth before you just say "to heck with it" and figure the time you are wasting on UPS could be spent riding your fixed frame.

Are you prepared to prove they did it?Kristin
Jul 1, 2003 11:52 AM
Do you have pictures of the damaged box? Were the dropouts packed properly? There is a special plastic tab that should have been inserted into the dropouts during shipping. If that wasn't there, then it was probably the shippers fault.
Kristin... are you sensitive about this, or what???funknuggets
Jul 1, 2003 12:03 PM
True enough, although all the shipper has to do is show due diligence in packing the bike. I dont think UPS has a specific standard for shipping bikes that all shipped bikes have to follow to be "insurable". You know that UPS eats bikes. I would say that you should just verify it can be fixed, and if it is relatively inexpensive, just pay it and move on. Otherwise... you will likely get caught up in a long conflict as you have to be there when the inspector comes out and takes pics of the bike and box, and gets your report, then turns it in to be investigated and then down the road it either gets approved or denied and then they may or may not reimburse the shipper who then has to get the reimbursement to you. Bah. Mine took like 10 weeks and the shipper wanted to split the the freaking proceeds with me. I had to threaten to sue. Pathetic. Anyway.

Just act fair and have your ducks in a row, have a couple of estimates from local LBS's to fix. And keep the packing materials as untouched as possible. Otherwise, if not fixable, you will need to return the bike, they reimburse the shipper and then need to give you a new frame or pay you your money back.

The problem is not that it's a bikeDave Hickey
Jul 1, 2003 12:33 PM
the problem is it's a USED bike. Most freight companies have policies against insuring used goods. Most freight claims are caused by improper packaging not by the carrier destroying the box. The carrier has no idea if the bike was shipped damaged or if it's packaged properly. Companies like UPS and FedEx have claims ratios of .005%. That means that .005% of shipments are damaged. The large mail order houses like Excel and CC have extremely low claim problems because they pack the bikes in double walled boxes and use proper packaging materials. If you did a history of bike damage on this board, 95% are going to be individuals who don't know how to pack. Maybe because I'm in the freight industry, I'm more careful about packaging. I read about people buying $1500-$2000 bikes on Ebay and then they b!tch because the seller wants to charge $50-$75 for professional packaging. If anyone buy's an expensive used bike on-line, pay the seller extra to have an LBS package it.
You bought a used bike from someone you don't knowDave Hickey
Jul 1, 2003 11:58 AM
and it's automatically UPS's fault? How do you know that it wasn't bent before shipping? Is the paint on the hanger worn off where something hit it?

You problem sound more like derailleur limit screws than a bent hanger
Dave, standing up for the competition???funknuggets
Jul 1, 2003 12:09 PM
sup dawg? I figured you'd stick it to em.

I know, they're the last company I should stand up forDave Hickey
Jul 1, 2003 12:16 PM
but the poster was too quick to blame UPS.
The easiest way to...53T
Jul 1, 2003 12:42 PM
...bend a deralier hanger is with a deralier attached. Without one, a hanger is a pretty stout piece of steel. Who set up the RD? You? When you bring it in to the shop have them check everything, including what you did.
UPS Sucks!!!!!Jaybo
Jul 1, 2003 1:59 PM
I would rather get boiled in an oil bath then use UPS. Go to here to see what I mean.

UPS Sucks!!!!!Jaybo
Jul 1, 2003 2:00 PM
I would rather get boiled in an oil bath then use UPS. Go to here to see what I mean.

I think that's a grossly unfair statement.Spoke Wrench
Jul 1, 2003 2:28 PM
During the time that I owned my own shop, I received over 1,000 factory bikes via UPS. I had exactly zero claims. None.

This has led me to believe that poor packaging is responsible for the vast majority of the horror stories I hear. In this case, for example, there should have been a plastic "mushroom" installed over the rear axle to keep the axle from pokeing through the box.
Lesson to others??? Remove Rr Der. before shipping...biknben
Jul 1, 2003 3:32 PM
The deraileur extends beyond the back of the frame when the back wheel is removed. That makes it vulnerable during shipping.

Remove the Rr. Der. from the hanger and just zip-tie it to the chain stay or something. You don't need to remove the shift cable. When unpacking just screw the der. back onto the hanger and all is good.

It's a very easy safegaurd for a common problem.
You mean it was shipped WITH THE DERAILLEUR ATTACHED?Alexx
Jul 2, 2003 3:39 AM
Geez, no wonder it got bent! Were the pedals still attached, too? No, your argument is with the shipper, for improper packaging.
I've seen some really awful packaging jobs, and you can usually tell who on ebay is clueless about shipping (if they claim that you will have to pay oversize charges, that is a red flag). I've told people who've just sold me stuff exactly how I want the merchandise packaged. I tell them that if they don't, any damage will be their fault. Usually works.
So how hard is it to straighten the derailleur hanger?Kerry Irons
Jul 1, 2003 4:43 PM
It's a very easy task - DIY with the jaws of a large adjustable wrench. If the derailleur cage is straight up and down and not angled left or right, you're there. You could have done it in the time it took you to get all ticked off at UPS and then to write this post.
re: Frame Damage thanks to UPS?!?!? What to do?latinist
Jul 1, 2003 9:07 PM
I don't think it'll be a problem. It's barely moved, and I'm going to get that taken care of tomorrow. Since it's a quick fix I'm not going to bother with insurance. That was more of a worst case scenario deal. I think I was overreacting to the fact that my first ride was marred with very, very poor shifting.