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Clinchers v.s. Tubular(18 posts)

Clinchers v.s. TubularJervis
Jun 22, 2003 8:27 AM
What's the difference here? Is it pretty much the equivalent to mtb tubular and tubless? Do they require different rims?

Jervis
re: Clinchers v.s. Tubularrrjc5488
Jun 22, 2003 10:54 AM
Yup they require special rims. Tubular tires have the tube sewn into the tire, whereas a clincher has a tube with a tire surrounding it. Tubular rims are generally a few grams lighter, as well as the tires. I've heard the tubular tires feel more supple on the road, but i've ridden both and dont really feel any difference (except for the difference weight of the wheels). The tubular tires you have to glue on the rim and clinchers you dont. If you're going to go tubular, use the wheels for racing only. Flatting with tubulars can get expensive. Sorry, I dont know about the MTB tubeless rims.
re: Clinchers v.s. Tubularcxer
Jun 22, 2003 2:36 PM
MTB tubeless are basically clinchers without an innertube- like a car or motorcycle tire. They allow you to do the opposite of what you want on the road. They allow you to run really low psi without pinch flatting.

Tubulars, as the other post states, are sewn tires that are glued to the rim. The reason these ride superior to clinchers is the fact you have a true round shape to contact the road. A clincher is not round but "U" shaped.
The round tubular is better at cornering and comfort as a round profile naturally absorbs impacts better than the "U" shape. You can also run much more psi and tubulars are MUCH lighter than clinchers. Up to a 1/2 pound or more. And, you loose the weight where it counts- at the rim. Tubulars have very high tpi counts- much more than clinchers. That translates into better performance, feel and control.

There is a learning curve with using tubulars but they puncture less frequently. Although I agree that they are a race-only system (for me anyway).
I ride them every day.....Alexx
Jun 22, 2003 4:24 PM
tubulars ride much, much better than clinchers, provided you buy DECENT tubulars, not those nasty Vittoria junk ones.
Sure, tubulars are the preferred tire for racing, but many, many people use them for everyday riding too. Flat changes are much quicker on the road with tubulars, but it's just delayed maintenance-when you get around to actually fixing the tire, that's when you pay for the better ride and lighter weight.
I ride them every day.....lithiapark
Jun 22, 2003 4:44 PM
As a mountain biker beginning to ride the roads, my only tires have been clinchers and I have never thought about how to change a tubular on the road. I've read on how to mount them in the shop, and it seems like it would be hard to replicate on the road. I'm always up for trying something new and tubulars seem worth a go. Any help for a tubular newbie? Thanks.
Nothing new about tubulars:Alexx
Jun 23, 2003 3:27 AM
They've been around since probably 1885.
FWIW, on-the-road tubular changes are best done with a pre-glued tire, but even so, you can't consider that tire to be fully bonded until the glue sets for a few hours. I wouldn't suggest using tubulars on any bike normally ridden in the rain.
Princess and the peaKerry
Jun 22, 2003 4:59 PM
I find it really funny that some people claim tubulars have a "much, much better" ride than clinchers, while others can't tell the difference. Clearly the latter group must be ignorant dolts :) The fact that 25-30% of the peloton rides clinchers in the TdF should tell us something.
Princess and the pearogue_CT1
Jun 22, 2003 5:34 PM
"The fact that 25-30% of the peloton rides clinchers in the TdF should tell us something." --- Yeah it tells us that 70-75% of the pro peleton still ride tubulars.

I have 4 wheelsets, 2 are clinchers and 2 are tubulars. I train on the tubies as much as the clinchers. I love the ride that the tubulars give, they are faster than my clinchers and give a far better ride.
Just the other day, I read a list of pro's who said that theybill
Jun 23, 2003 6:49 AM
cannot tell the difference between tubulars and clinchers. This post would be a lot more impressive if could remember the pros or the source (I think Zabel was one, Zulle maybe, I don't know, mostly guys whose names that I knew, anyway, and it would have been in VeloNews, ProCycling, or Cycle Sport, all of which I picked up recently), but the point remains. Good quality clinchers are thought to be as comfortable and as well handling as good quality tubulars, and clinchers are uncontroversially easier to deal with. The best that tub proponents can manage is that "it's not as hard as it looks."
I don't have tubulars. I confess, however, to being intrigued for race day wheels. Maybe because of the mystique. I've been talked out of it numerous times by former (and some present) tubular users.
Just the other day, I read a list of pro's who said that theyrogue_CT1
Jun 23, 2003 12:57 PM
One thing that you have to add into the equation is although I can tell a difference between my tubulars and my clinchers it might be due to the fact that the tubular wheels are all carbon fiber (LEW, Zipp 404, Specialized Tri-spoke) and the clinchers are aluminum wheels (Ksyrium SL's and Velocity Spartacus). I think a big part of the "feel" might be from the smooth ride that the carbon fiber gives as opposed to the aluminum.
Once again, Kerry, you miss the point.Alexx
Jun 23, 2003 3:45 AM
Most newbies to tubulars, fearing the 'incredible complexity' of repairing them opt for some gawd-awful cheap cr@p tire (like the low-end vittorias, gommitallias, conti giro, etc.) so that they won't be out a lot of $$ when they THROW THEM AWAY rather than fix them after flatting. That group is where the "ignorant dolts" are, and trust me, there are plenty of them out there.

The same "ignorant dolts" are those cyclists who always fill their tires all the way up to the maximum pressure stamped on the tire. Just ask around at your next club ride-I've found that something around 50% of club riders do exactly this! I'm not sure why so many people think that a tire has to ALWAYS be pumped rock-hard, but most people do just this. Now, considering that most 'good' tubulars are capable of maximum pressures around 175 psig, I'm betting this is the reason why some 'dolts' can't tell the difference in ride. Well, DUH!!! If you are on a bike with tires THAT highly pressurised, of COURSE it's going to ride like sh!t.

I have one set of wheels with Tufo S33 specials-probably the stiffest tubular available, and another set with a mix of more pliable tubulars (Sprinter/Clement mix right now...). Even the Tufo specials, pressurized at 110 front, 130 rear ride better than any clincher. The other set, used more for training on local bumpy roads, pressurized at 105/125 rides like a dream. Of course, if I pump then up to the max pressure of 150/175, it's gonna ride like a rock. Trust me, I've tried it before.

Also, you say that 25-30% of the peloton rides clinchers. You know, 25-30% of motorists don't use seatbelts or signal turns. Statitics don't prove anything, especially when tire advertising is probably the #1 reason for using any specific tire. I'd bet you that 90% of that "25-30% of the peloton" would ride tubulars if the team offered them the choice. As of right now, no TdF has EVER been won on clinchers. None.

Don't underestimate how many 'ignorant dolts' are actually out there. Look out a window (or maybe even into a mirror), and you'll probably see one right now!
Princess and the peaMShaw
Jun 23, 2003 10:40 AM
Yeah, that they're getting paid to ride them! Comparing what you and I ride vs. what the pros ride is irrelevent since we've got to PAY for our gear! Just look at the new superlight AL frames that are only designed to last 1 season.

I've ridden both clinchers and tubulars for a lotta years now. My opinion as to the ride difference is partly due to the lightweight box section rims, and partly due to the tires themselves.

Used to be there were many more people riding tubulars on any given ride. If you flatted more than the number of spares you were carrying, you could borrow someone's spare to limp home. Nowadays, there's a lot fewer people riding tubulars, so if you flat more than you have spares, its either a long wait to get picked up, or a long walk home.

Tufo's sealant is a good thing to keep with you on your tubular rides. That way, you can put the sealant in, and still hopefully get home on the number of spares you're carrying.

Mike
re: Clinchers v.s. Tubulardawgcatchr
Jun 22, 2003 5:34 PM
I had been riding decent to good tubulars (Vittoria CX and Conti Sprinter) for as long as I have had my aluminum Dream Colnago. I was always amazed at how nice the ride of this aluminum frame was. The other day, I had to borrow my girlfriends 32-hole clincher wheels, and I was shocked at how much rougher the ride became. I guess the aluminum frame wasn't so smooth after all! It turns out that the tires (tubulars) had alot to do with how the bike felt. On a stiff aluminum frame and chip-sealed roads, for me at least, it makes a difference. 120 psi in my tubulars is much smoother than 90 psi on clinchers. I am sure with a really high-end tire it would be even better.

One other thing-as long as you have pre-stretched the tire, it only takes a few minutes to gule and mount a tire. Not really a big deal at all. Unlike a previous poster, I find it more of a big deal to remove a tire-it can be a pain if you use too much glue, therefore making the process a real struggle sometimes. If you can get good prices on tubulars from Europe (as I did, Conti Sprinters for $26, Vittoria all-weathers (green tires) for $35) then you will be doing well.
re: Clinchers v.s. Tubularmapei boy
Jun 23, 2003 1:28 PM
Dawgcatcher. We live in strange, parallel universes. I ride a Colnago Dream with 32 spoke clincher rims, and my wife rides a Colnago dream with 32 spoke tubulars - mostly Conti Sprinters and Vittoria CX. I agree with you that, whenever my wife and I exchange wheels, my ride suddenly gets a mite smoother. Now that I've traded in my Conti GP3000's for Michelin Pro Races, though, I must say that the divide between the clinchers and the tubulars has grown considerably smaller. The tubulars still roll better, though. And when you get a blowout, being on a tubular is truly a less traumatic experience. (I rode tubulars, then called sew-ups, from the early 1970's to the onset of the Millennium.)
re: Clinchers v.s. Tubularpurplepaul
Jun 23, 2003 1:49 PM
I'm about to make the leap to tubulars (pick up the new ride tomorrow or Wednesday), and I needed something particularly puncture resistant (I live and ride in NYC). So, I went with Conti Comps. Bought them from the UK for $40 each. Of the three tires I bought, one is seriously out of round. When I spin the wheel (bought a used Bora for stretching!), it has a nasty bump at the valve. Since I got it in Europe, there's no way to return it.

The other two are fine, though one is not perfectly round. Is this normal for tubulars and can you feel it when a tire is not "perfectly" round?
You sucker!!Alexx
Jun 23, 2003 2:03 PM
If you are looking for puncture resistance, Conti Comps are waaaaay down on my list. In fact, Sprinters, such as they are, will resist punctures much, much better, as will Vittoria Corsas. If you truly want puncture resistant tubulars, try Tufo specials (if you can stand the lousy grip), or even Tufo Elites (if you can afford them...). I'm going to bet you'll flat every second or third ride on NYC streets with Conti Comps.

FWIW, yeah, about every third high-end Conti tubular is out-of-round, which is unforgiveable when you consider what good Contis cost. Your only recourse is to return them.
You sucker!!purplepaul
Jun 23, 2003 2:30 PM
Are you speaking from experience? Because the Comps are listed as being Conti's most puncture resistant tire, and I've have riders tell me the same.
Sadly, yes.Alexx
Jun 23, 2003 6:00 PM
As far as the claim as being "Conti's most puncture resistant tire", well, that's saying much. Every Conti I've ever owned flatted on a quite regular basis, regardless of what I did, or where I rode. The only tires worse (in my experience) are Hutchisons.