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Water bottle rivets.(10 posts)

Water bottle rivets.klbeans
May 29, 2003 7:23 PM
Ever since I purchased my 2002 Cannondale R2000si, I've have problems with the water bottle rivets coming loose. My latest occurance has brought me tremendous frustration. Upon leaving it at my LBS, they damaged the frame in trying to secure a rivet.

One of my rivets came loose, again, and upon bringing my bike in, I asked them to tighten it and to also to confirm that the other 3 rivets were snug. They ended up stripping the threads on one of the rivets, one that they later notified me was not problematic. Now, to fix this problem, they would have to drill the rivet out and insert a new one. Now you can imagine the problems.

When I got my bike back, upon inspection of the rivet, you can see that the frame is flattened, and the paint cracked at the lower side of where the rivet enters the frame. Also there were scratches around the rivet from when the drill obviously missed the rivet and hit the frame. The flatness on the frame I suspect happened when the mechanic tried knocking out the old rivet.

Now I'm told that they're going to have a Cannondale rep come to see the frame. I don't see what difference that makes. It may alleviate the problem with the rivets coming loose but how does that alleviate the damage done to my frame?

Anybody have any suggestions as to how I should move forward with this problem? Is demanding a new frame out of the question? I'm worried that the crack in the paint may be the start of a hairline fracture that may escalate to worse things down the road. Any information is helpful.
Sounds like a new frame is in order... nmEndure
May 30, 2003 3:45 AM
May 30, 2003 4:03 AM
I kind of doubt that a crack in the paint will come back to haunt you. Paint cracks on bikes all the time...frames don't crack nearly as often. That said, they did damage your bike and should be willing to take care of it. If the frame really isn't damaged as they would claim, they should gladly take it in as a trade-in b/c they would be able to re-sell it easily.
May 30, 2003 4:27 AM
It's not the crack in the paint I'm concerned with, but what's under it. The crack in the paint is exactly where the frame is dented inwards. That being said, there may be potential for further damage. This is a thin walled, aluminum frame. Granted aluminum is fairly maleably, but there is always the question of what problems are unforseen due to a new stress that has been put on the frame.
I'd be concerned about a dent to alum....bent_spoke
May 30, 2003 5:32 AM
since the dent is a "kink in the alum armour" & a potential point of vurnerability for stress related failure. Working with the C'dale rep to resollve this, is probably your best option.
May 30, 2003 5:44 AM
I'm with the others on this. I think someone owes you a new frame even if the damage isn't obviously dangerous to the structure. It's damaged, and it's not your fault. To begin with, those rivets shouldn't be loose in the first place, but they're just expanding "rivnuts," or "nutserts," and there are tools to tighten them without damaging the frame, unless the factory ***ed up the initial installation. If the shop lacked the proper tool or didn't know how to use it they shouldn't have tried to do it, and if they went ahead and tried anyway, who knows what damage they could have caused? Among other things, for all you know they might have dented the frame way in, then pulled it back out using the rivet. That may indeed be why one was stripped! If that's the case, there could be fatigue you can't see.
May 30, 2003 7:58 AM
before assuming a paint crack will lead to an aluminum crack, consider that the forces the tube is subjected to are longitudinal, down the length of the tube from both ends, with lateral forces only at the ends, where it joins other tubes. Frame tubes never vibrate enough to break in the middle, always at the ends. The lateral torsional forces in the middle of the tube are soaked up along it's length. There's no way for repeated flexing to work into a crack, as there is at the ends. As proof of this theory, many frame builders have crimped their downtubes into various cross sectional shapes other than round, and they don't develope cracks along the bends.

I've been riding with a nice dent caused by the handlbars hitting the top tube in a crash, that has not affected the stability of the frame or changed in 15 years.

Nonetheless, the shop who dented your frame should be raked over the coals in hell, even though the damage is "cosmetic."
My $0.02; they owe you new fram @ n/cpitt83
May 30, 2003 5:01 AM
Even if they didn't do the damage, I'd call it a manufacturing problem. They shouldn't even be working on the frame, especially Al. That's a new bike IMHO and a warantee issue.

Therefore, the C-dale rep should be involved and should make good. However, given that the '03 run is ending soon and the bankrupcy issues and shortages and long waits, you may do better with cash and buying a different product. If it's possible.

Tough situation. Ask Russ; he's the "shop politics" master
They owe you a new frame......Ligon
May 30, 2003 5:23 AM
If your bike shop did indeed do that kind of damage to your frame they need to do one of two things. They should either have your frame sent in for repair if it is possible at no charge or they should replace the frame at no charge. Maybe they are going to try to talk the C-dale rep into warranty the frame. Personnaly I think that is what they should of done in the first place. If the rivets were loose they should not of tried to fix them themselves. That was just dumb on there part. There is way to much liability involved. They should of sent your frame into Cannondale for repair to begin with. So, to answer your question I think that demanding a new frame is not out of the question.

They owe you a new frame......klbeans
Jun 2, 2003 4:26 AM
I have talked to the my LBS and they are doing just that. They are going to warranty the frame and pass the loss onto Cannondale.

That being said, I agree with you. They should not have attempted to make the repair. I didn't have all that much confidence in their mechanical staff to begin with. I generally do my own repairs and since they were giving me this story about how expensive the rivet tool was, and since the frame was on warranty, I decided to let them do the fix. What a mistake!

Aside from all these rivet issues, the help at the store was a nightmare that I don't even want to get into. It's only until I got to management level that I got some adequate service.