|Roadies are jerks? The reality behind what I thought was a myth.||jtolleson|
May 29, 2003 6:19 AM
|No, I know that roadies aren't jerks. I've always had good experiences with other cyclists, but finally last night saw an example of how, like all stereotypes, there are a few sources that give rise to the myth.
I was riding up Lookout Mtn with my partner. Neither of us is riding like we have in previous years, owing in part to work schedules, the fact that we are building a house, and a little off-season sluggery. Put it this way, I summitted a full 8 minutes off the kinds of times I rode last year. Ah, well.
So, this young punk is passing her (not that quickly, really) and looks at her bike (LOOK kg386) and says "How much did you pay for that? And you're riding that slow? You need to train more." Except in a very nasty hostile degrading way.
Of course by the time we summitted she was in tears, and still in a big funk this a.m. Reminding her of her 2 Triple By Pass finishes, some fast centuries, and other accomplishments isn't helping.
Some day he'll be 40, perhaps with a couple more lbs than he'd like, and a busy life that relegates him to the humble world of the aging recreational roadie. We can only hope. Karma.
I'm still so dumbfounded I don't know how to process the whole thing.
|re: Roadies are jerks? The reality behind what I thought was a myth.||gregario|
May 29, 2003 6:30 AM
|what an a@@hole.
I have a theory about cyclists that I won't go into here. It's kind of like cycling is attractive to those without social skills (like me).
|don't fret. karma takes time. nm||JS Haiku Shop|
May 29, 2003 6:32 AM
|what a dick.||rufus|
May 29, 2003 6:34 AM
|guy blew by me yesterday, and i know i'm way overweight and slow, but i was riding especially slow because of tightness in my gluteos maximus and lower back that i'm trying to nurse away, so i'm pampering it right now. anyway, blew right past me, never said a word.|
|"never said a word"||stan_b|
May 29, 2003 9:04 AM
|Is that a good thing or bad thing in your view?|
|bad in my book||rufus|
May 29, 2003 1:41 PM
|he could have at least grunted a hello or something.|
|bad in my book||I Love Shimano|
May 29, 2003 6:21 PM
|isn't it silly to think that someone is an a-hole just because he didn't say hi to you?
gimme a break
|re: Roadies are jerks? The reality behind what I thought was a myth.||Rusty Coggs|
May 29, 2003 6:34 AM
|That stinks. Maybe he is one of the young jerkoffs with the expensive gear that this old fart often makes look bad. That would be proper payoff wouldn't it?|
|You have mistaken Envy for Assholitis||bigrider|
May 29, 2003 6:45 AM
|He was not insulting the slow riding, he just was angry because of the Look 386 that he can't afford because he is riding too much and is probably working a low paying job.
In his mind it is a crime for a rider going slow to spend that much on a bike when HE really could use that bike more than one of you. Envy is a terrible sin because the result is hurting others with no potential for personal gain. He may think it feels good to say nasty comments but 5 miles up the road he is still miserable.
How is that for Thursday philosophy?
|Probably pretty accurate ...||jtolleson|
May 29, 2003 6:48 AM
I asked her what he was riding (she couldn't remember... shock has a way of doing that I guess!). I was thinking that if it was something lower-end she could have said "You ride that well and that's all the bike you have? You need to get a real job." But that would have been as rude as he is, since I think commenting on gear is as obnoxious as commenting on ability.
PS -- I was going to use the "A-hole" word but feared my thread would be yanked!
|another thing to say...||kenyee|
May 29, 2003 7:13 AM
|"Why should I have to go fast? I like the exercise." or "I like the views at the top and I like my ride".
It'd make the guy at least think that going fast isn't always the reason to bike. A couple of friends bike just to explore and take in the scenery and don't do descents faster than 35mph and they have good bikes. Nothing wrong in it.
Kind of hard to get a feel of how "hostile" he sounded though, but being hostile back would probably have just made the brat more hostile and not something to do if your partner was alone...
May 29, 2003 6:47 AM
|First, fortunately, IMHO, he is the exception rather than the rule.
Secondly, revenge is dish best served cold. One day he will get his comeuppeance. It may not be for a long time, but when he does, if he has any conscience at all, he will remember his nasty remark and feel like sh!t.
|My theory is that most people are jerks....||Becky|
May 29, 2003 6:51 AM
|Perhaps the congestion (and lousy weather, lately) of the Northeast has gotten to me, but I hypothesize that most people are jerks. The anonimity of crowds, be in on the highway, the grocery store, or anywhere that people feel sheltered from identification, has lead to an outbreak of anonymous rudeness. "I'll never see that person again, so it's okay if I make an obscene gesture or derogatory comment or cut him/her off in traffic." Gone are the days when one knew everyone in their community and people gave a d@mn about respecting others.
Just my two cents about something that has bugged me for a sizable fraction of my young life...anyone care to comment?
Disclaimer: The above rant is in no way meant to imply that I have never been rude or am somehow holier-than-thou. The words are simply my observation that jerk behaviors are not limited to the roadie population.
|hell is other people - sartre (nm)||godot|
May 29, 2003 6:59 AM
|My theory is that most people are jerks....||ukiahb|
May 29, 2003 7:28 AM
|yep, it's true..I moved from a big city (S.F.) to a small town to the north a few years back, and in general people are waaay more courteous here...motorists AND cyclists|
|It's people like you||purplepaul|
May 29, 2003 2:20 PM
|who make people like me act like people like you.
|You've got to be kidding us.||DERICK|
May 29, 2003 6:57 AM
|A few harsh words and she's "in a funk" and you need to "process it". Get over it! The world is full of jerks. If you're so soft that someone can destroy you with a few words that says a lot more about you than the person who insulted you.
I'm not trying to be harsh here but lets be real. You can't control what people are going to say to you. You can only control how you react to it. Forget about all the liberal psychobabble. Tell her to stop acting like a child and get on her bike and ride.
|Thanks Derek, you are soooo kind.||jtolleson|
May 29, 2003 7:32 AM
|I was going to refer her to this thread for some words of companionship, but I guess you've nixed that possibility.
|You've got to be kidding us.||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 7:45 AM
|If you're so soft that someone can destroy you with a few words that says a lot more about you than the person who insulted you. >>>
although i agree in part with your premise, you sound much like the a-hole of which we are discussing. you just called a perfect stranger "soft" and a "child". actually, you just called someone's wife "soft" and a "child". ya, ok. there's something to be said about staying young and dumb inside. otherwise, you become so hard that you're brittle and you shatter easily. can no one get to you? if that's true then i feel truly sorry for you. what a crumby world you must live in.
|You've got to be kidding us.||DERICK|
May 29, 2003 9:08 AM
|You feel sorry for me?
I live in a crummy world?
I am so hard and brittle I will shatter?
I'm not the one looking for a pitty party just because someone said a harsh word. To me that sounds like a crummy world.
Do you realize there are people in this world who would give anything just to be able to ride a bike at any speed. Let alone a great bike like that. We should all be thankful for what we have. Try telling this story to a person with no legs or a WOMAN in the Middle East and see how much sympathy you get. We have so much and yet we still whine about what we don't have or can't do.
I'm not trying to jump on this person when they're down. Hugs and kisses are fine, but sometimes a harsh anticeptic is the best thing for an open cut.
|think again||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 9:29 AM
|your comments are being directed at the poster who's bummed because his wife is feeling insecure... not at that person feeling dissed. i'm the the living-related donor coordinator at the Liver Transplant Dept. in a hospital in San Francisco. i think i have perspective about hardships. it's nice that some people are secure with themselves and above ridicule or a negative comment. not everyone is as strong as yourself. some people happen to have difficult with day to day things. showing insecurity and emotion isn't a crime in my world and it really shouldn't be bothering you in yours.|
|One more time||53T|
May 29, 2003 9:53 AM
|Liver transplants are IMPORTANT, for the donor family and the recipient. Fitness/equipment ratio is TRIVIAL. I couldn't disagree more with your assertaion that the display of emotion, perhaps temporarily disabling emotion is to be embraced and supported in both IMPORTANT and TRIVIAL cases.
Insecurity and emotion are not crimes, but that doesn't make them universally good. Inappropriate emotional reactions are symptomatic of several recognized mental disorders. How can we separate the inappropriate reactions from the normal ones? Look to the stimulus that prompted the emotional response. Was it IMPORTANT (donating dead relatives organs) or TRIVIAL (being criticized on a hill for riding a French CF bike).
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the poster is not a "him" and doesn't have a wife.
|One more time||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 10:14 AM
|whether the poster has "a wife" is completely irrelevant.
you sure know how to take things literally don't you? nice of you to explain to me the importance of liver transplants (i had no idea). i'm learning so many new things today. maybe you should try picking up some Mishima, and in turn, not taking yourself so seriously.
|Please answer any of my questions!!!||53T|
May 29, 2003 10:32 AM
|Is english your first language? Second? Any casual observer could discern the central point of my post, and it has nothing to do with liver transplants. I have never explained the importance of liver transplants, I had hoped the importance would be self-evident. My post had to do with an important topic that you are avoiding with all your might. You understand it, you even agree with it, you just won't admit it. And I am loving it! I'm going to pick up some sashimi instead.|
|Please answer any of my questions!!!||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 10:36 AM
|well, i'm glad you're having such a good time. no, i don't speak English even as a second language. enjoy the sashimi. i'm a teka maki guy myself (with plenty of wasabi)|
|You're making me hungry. (nm)||53T|
May 29, 2003 10:45 AM
May 29, 2003 10:41 AM
|I agree people are different and some are stronger in some areas than others. The posters' partner happens to be kind of weak emotionaly. No crime there at all and it doesn't affect me at all.
It may sound harsh but I was actually offering advice. I said she should get her partner back on the bike and ride. And yes, she was acting childish.
When someone starts a thread saying they or a partner are a weak climber, sprinter, distance rider etc. what do we do? Do we throw a pitty party for them? No. We offer what we believe to be good advice. sometimes that advice includes pointing out flaws. What if someone here said their diet was centered around burgers and shakes? Think of the thread that would create. Why is this different?
What better advice for someone who is insecure than to tell them not to stop doing what they love to do. Emotional strength is very much like physical strength. It has to be developed by dealing with difficult situations, like this one. Emotional strength will never be developed by blaming others and looking for pitty.
Was that guy an A$$?.......Yes he was.
Was he out of line?.........Absolutley.
Is he responsable for her emotional state?.....No. Only she can be.
|think again||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 10:45 AM
|everything you say is dead on.. the problem is: the poster wasn't the one with the problem. the "partner" was.|
May 29, 2003 11:27 AM
|jtollesons' origional post was in regagd to how to deal with her "partners" problem. Wow, this it getting really confusing. I'm sure her partner is following the post as well. I simply tried to offer some advice (maybe a little bit too harshly) and was jumped on by her and others for not following the pitty parade. I guess that's what happens when emotions are involved.
A$$ hole people are like steep hills. They suck to deal with but they make you strong in return.
|Yes, but...||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 11:58 AM
|i think it would have been obvious to anyone that she was feeling self-pity and that the words affected her much more then they should have. in fact, if you ask the offended party, i bet she'd tell you that in a heartbeat. that's why i thought it was unneccessary to rub salt in wounds she probably realizes shouldn't exist in the first place. it is much more interesting to comment on a person who would go out of their way to diss a complete stranger on a bike. IMO, of course. i have no interest in taking the down and out to task. perhaps others think that's their place and that's their business.|
|Oh, yes, yes. I wept because I had no shoes...||bikerboo|
May 29, 2003 9:56 AM
|until I met a man who had no feet.
Fine. Then everything we discuss is trivial and we might as well wipe away the board and prohibit complaints about anything that isn't tragic.
Well, I don't think that's a fair standard.
People here have posted things like "Bummer! My bike rack scratched the new 'Nag" and no one has jumped on them for being shallow. Something tells me you have a weird issue.
|That calls for a stick in the spokes!||Brooks|
May 29, 2003 7:05 AM
|What a jerk! As I am 45 with more pounds than I like with a busy life that relegates ME to the humble world of the aging recreational roadie (thanks for summing it up for me!) I can afford a more expensive bike! Whether I go slow or not is nobody's business, I'm just glad to be able to ride for fun and fitness. I can look back at the minor accomplishments of my cycling career (including a transcontinental self-supported tour and some racing wins) and see how much I have enjoyed cycling without being a jerk to others. You never know who might find on the road. Like Chris Witty the other day.
Ignore the punks, enjoy the ride!
|A plug for nice roadies||trout_bum|
May 29, 2003 7:07 AM
|Last weekend I was fixing a flat on the side of 9W a heavily travelled route by NYC cyclists.
And I must say every single rider that passed asked if I was OK. A nice couple in a car with bike racks even stopped and offered the use of their floor pump-which I didn't turn down-Thanks. So there are nice folks out there too!
|What an insensitive..............||Len J|
May 29, 2003 7:13 AM
|oh never mind, he's not worth the emotion.
I suspect his comment says more about him that your partner but I know that can be hard to see in the middle of what feels like an attack.
Rudeness aside, it sounds like he "hit a nerve" with your partner. I suspect she is probably feeling bad about her own riding or his comment would have rolled off her like "water on a ducks back". Maybe remind her that the only thing she really has any control over is how she reacts and that her reaction can give more power to a jerk than he deserves. I know it feels like s&%$ but only she can choose to let it ruin her day.
Sorry she had to go through it.
It just goes to show you that in any group there are jerks. Cyclist are no different.
Don't let the Bast&^%s get you down
|the proper reaction||mohair_chair|
May 29, 2003 7:14 AM
|The guy is clearly an A-hole, so I think your partner was a little oversensitive. Not that that's a character flaw or anything.
The correct reaction to an obvious jerk who insults you and your bike is to tell the guy to F--- off. Seriously. Look at him, say these two words, then look back ahead and ignore him. If he says anything else, repeat it once more, but only once. Then go into steely-eyed ignore mode.
When jerks get you to cry and get upset, they achieve their goal for the day, which was to make someone cry and get upset. They win. Telling the guy to F--- off also has the added benefit of making you feel better instead of worse. Don't internalize it, let it out.
|Some truth to the myth||aarontoy|
May 29, 2003 7:20 AM
|Where I ride, each day I encounter on average maybe 5-10 other roadies in the general vicinity. I will always say Hi or raise my hand as a friendly gesture and about 90% of the time the guy just gives me a blank look and speeds away. And I still keep doing it. [sigh...]|
|Let me think..||53T|
May 29, 2003 7:22 AM
|OK, I'm done. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
I was trying so hard to be sympathetic to your plight and that of your better half, but alas it was no use.
A 40 y/o woman is still miffed today by what some punk on a bike said yesterday? Do you have any kids? Maybe you should borrow some, or find some other method of filling the excess time that you both have to worry about what other cyclists say to you. What on God's green earth was so shattering to her? Was it that she paid a lot for a frame? That's hardly and insult. That she is slow? BIig fat hairy deal. That she needs to train more? Who wouldn't want to train more? Oh, forgot, you have lots of free time and train as much as you want.
I typically forgive and forget truck drivers for trying to kill me after about 20 pedal strokes. Folks that curse me out and call me fat/slow/lazy/mean spirited, about 5 seconds. Is this because I am at peace with the world? Hell no! I have too many other important things to think about.
I suspect that you and your partner have more important thing to think about as well, you just may not realize it. Did you see the news abou the tax cut bill? It won't make a big differenc in your life, but it will make 100% more difference than anything a punk on a bike said to you on a hill, that's guaranteed.
Do you have an escape plan for your house in case of fire? No? Well you may never need it, but it's way more important than what some stranger thinks of your early season fitness.
I may be acting like a jerk, but then I am a roadie. If this type of random encounter with a loud mouthed stranger is impacting your partner, count your blessings since you may have no greater concern in your life than the comments of strangers.
On the other hand, I know several 40 y/o women that take SSRI drugs every day to combat the symptoms that you describe: depression, anxiety, focus on the trival at the expense of the important. You may want to do some reading on anxiety disorder. Good luck.
|Sorry I posted it.||jtolleson|
May 29, 2003 7:38 AM
|Well, having been a part of this community for 2 years, I thought I could vent for a little support, but I get HAHAHA. Terrific.
No question that it pushed a button hitting someone in their own area of insecurity (not riding like one would like and already engaging in self-flagellation over it). SSRIs? Anxiety disorders? I think someone is allowed to be upset for a few hours when they've been kicked in a sensitive area without being told they need psychiatric help.
She'll bounce back just fine, I'm sure. Apparently this kind of rudeness is more common to you wherever you are than here, but in 12 years of semi-serious riding it was a first for us.
|Sorry I posted it.||Jon Billheimer|
May 29, 2003 7:58 AM
I liked Mohair's advice! A little venting and retaliation would have been in order here. Unfortunately there are jerks everywhere. Another poster referred to the decline in civility. Unfortunately it's a fact of life. Try not to get too exercised. Most of us ARE nice people---and MOST OF US ARE SLOW, TOO! Now, both of you, go ride your bikes. It'll make you feel better:)-
|I'm glad that you did||ms|
May 29, 2003 7:59 AM
|I really do not care what other people say about my riding or my bike. However, my wife, who occasionally will go for a short (10-20 mile), slow ride with me, sometimes gets upset when passing motorists make comments or blow their horns at her. I do not think that your partner's reaction is unreasonable or a sign of some significant psychological problem.
Having an over reaction to a passing comments goes both ways. Two years ago, a very good looking twentysomething woman driving a BMW convertable waved for me to cross the intersection where both of us were stopped for a four-way stop. As I passed in front of her car, she yelled nice legs and asked if I wanted a ride. Little did she realize that underneath my helmet and dark glasses was a balding fortysomething man. I still savor the comment even though I am sure that Ms. BMW forgot it -- and me -- within seconds of her passing through the intersection.
The bottom line is that random, off-the-cuff comments can have very different, and sometimes significant, impacts on others. I would hope that most of us would keep the good ones coming and stifle the bad ones. But, as long as we have freedom of speech, we will have to realize that not everything we hear will please us.
May 29, 2003 8:25 AM
|the one thing this post represents......is that this group is just like every other group, it has it's share of insensitive people, as well as it's share of sensitive people. And peoples responses say as much about them as anything.
Glad you brought the topic, it reinforces both my view of how many wonderful people there are as well as reminds me that not everyone is safe.
|Let me think..||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 7:53 AM
|again, another a$$hole throws in his 2 cents. almost a whole page of bad mouthing some guys wife on a messageboard for what? you wanted to make sure this guy knows just how lame his wife is and just how absolutely ultra-cool and unshakeable you are? well, i can tell you right now that all the internet strangers out there are ultra-impressed by how bloody cool you are. wow! your f/kn awesome!|
|I can't decide if it is rude or just naive of you||bikerboo|
May 29, 2003 7:59 AM
|not to show a little more understanding than that.
We all have our vulnerabilities. Maybe someone says "don't be stupid" to someone with mild dyslexia, or "you don't need that dessert" to a complete stranger who is fighting the battle of the bulge. OK, those are probably crummy analogies...
but I can think of times that I'm in a certain space (or have a certain issue) where remarks can really sting, and other kinds of encounters are as someone said "water off a duck's back."
But I don't begrudge anyone a few hours of hurt feelings for meanness, because I do expect some kindness in the world. This guy was a huge jerk obviously and downright mean. I feel no need to defend that or to attack someone who posted about it here.
|Rude yes, naive no.||53T|
May 29, 2003 8:43 AM
|Your analogies are crummy, but let me explain why. To insult a mentally disabled person or a medically obese person is about the same thing as insulting someone's skin color. It is rude and not generally tolerated. To suggest, or exclaim, that someone's equipment choice does not match their fitness is TRIVIAL.
To distinguish between issues of substance, and issues of folly is paramount to a healthy existance. After we sing the national anthem before a ball game, we should all be forced to proclaim "Sport is not real!" before we sit down.
Competitive athletes, amatures in particular, are prone to ignore this fundamental truth. They fall prey to the illness of conducting their lives as if athletic performance warranted the same mental and emotional energy as food, shelter, working for the betterment of your fellow man, finding a cure for cancer, brushing your teeth, etc.
I believe the blurring of the lines between sport, news, and entertainment to be a serious threat to western democratic society, particularly in affluent nations such as the US. It is in this spirit that I admonish j, the original poster, in his search for affirmation of his partners hurt feelings over the immaterial comments of some oxegen-starved adoescent on a bike. Some of us have important issues to think about, those that don't ought to find some. Rude? Probably, but revolution is seldom polite.
|Rude yes, naive no.||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 8:59 AM
|"One should take important considerations lightly. Seemingly trivial tasks should be adhered to with great vigor and passion." - Yukio Mishima
ha, ha, ha, ha..... gimme a f/n break. you sound like the "adoescent" you claim to abhor. ha, ha, ha. the funny thing is, you're serious. pure, comedy.
|Rude yes, naive no.||53T|
May 29, 2003 9:11 AM
|I don't understand Mishima's comment. Could you explain?
Also, I didn't get the joke about the adolescent. Were you laughing at my spelling error, or something else?
Was it my call for you to take up a higher purpose that you found amusing? Was it just as funny when JFK suggested it? When FDR suggested it? When Pope Paul XXIII suggested it?
|Rude yes, naive no.||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 9:24 AM
|Was it just as funny when JFK suggested it? When FDR suggested it? When Pope Paul XXIII suggested it?
wow... you just managed to compare yourself to JFK, FDR and the Pope. you must be feeling very secure with yourself today.
|Are you going to answer my question?||53T|
May 29, 2003 9:43 AM
|Maybe you can answer this question: What't wrong with comparing myself to JFK, FDR, the Pope? These man all accomplished great things. I hope to continue to do so as well. Do you? Why not? Note that I am not talking about great achievements like winning the national road cycling title, I'm talking about substantial achievments.
I am feeling very secure with myself today, and most days. Are you? Why not?
|Are you going to answer my question?||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 9:58 AM
|check your verbage... do not "compare" yourself to JFK, FDR and the Pope. admire these people for who they are if you'd like and espouse to be the best person you can be.
"You hope to continue to do so as well."??? ok then, oh holy one.... go ahead and detail to us your most recent Pope-like incantations?
|You are one twisted dude.||53T|
May 29, 2003 10:17 AM
|You made the comparision, with no knowlege of my accomplishments, I might add. I simply asked if my position on dedicating your life to excellence was as funny when KFK, FDR and the Pope esposed it. You never answered. I see no problem with modeling my beliefs after the great achievers of our time. thier ideas were not all original either. Socrates lived a long time ago.
Anyway, where do you get off telling me not to compare myself to these three guys? By what measure do you you gauge yourself? Be the best you can be? Situational greatness? A recipe for mediocrity in my opinion.
I'm not afraid to compare myself to mortals, an exercise you find distastfull. (perhaps rude?)
My record on defending basic constitutional freedoms in this country is better than FDR's. My record in being true to my spouse is better than JFK's. My ability to avoid cult-like organizations like the church is better than the Pope's. How do you stack up?
|re: You are one twisted dude.||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 10:31 AM
|easy, tiger. slooowwww down. you're going to be alright.
you have so many great quotes here, but by far the best has to be:
"My record on defending basic constitutional freedoms in this country is better than FDR's."
that's just an absolute gem! remember, deep breaths. remember to breath.
|Can you explain?||53T|
May 29, 2003 10:35 AM
|Again, I don't get it. No historical figure has done more to undo the US constitutional provisions on taxation, federal commercial regulation, and a host of other issues than FDR. Explain youself.|
|Can you explain?||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 10:43 AM
|hint: again, you're being much too literal. do you really think i would debate the merits of FDR on a cycling messageboard with a stranger who hasn't even bothered to give me a unique take on history? perhaps you think that sounds like fun. i'm only drawing attention to the quote itself and the fact that you would bother to stack yourself up against FDR at all. (let alone the Pope) who are you trying to impress? if it's me then you've succeeded splendidly (although probably not in the manner of which you originally intended)|
May 29, 2003 11:13 AM
|I'm being too literal? Do you mean that you are sitting there pointing and giggling, and I am asking you to defend your position? You continue to point and giggle.
I read the words you write. We agree on the definitions, yet you fault me for not seeing your true meaning. In fact, you have not articulted your true meaning. I am not trying to "impress" anybody in the meaningless, superficial use of the word that you elect to employ. I am indeed trying to impress upon you the validity of my arguments, through the application of logic to a set of facts. This is the nature of debate. It is the foundation of understanding.
Pointing and giggling is just plain rude.
Do you consider your position that it is wrong to compare oneself to FDR to be self-evident? I have argued that it is not wrong, but noble. You continue to assume your point doesn't need to be argued, as if it were an axiomatic truth. All your points in this thread are presented as common knowlege, with no need to be supported by cogent argument.
Were you a bully when you were younger? A jock? A dedicated scholar? I am curious as to how you developed this supremely arrogant method of discorse.
|Literal||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 12:16 PM
|Were you a bully when you were younger? A jock? A dedicated scholar? I am curious as to how you developed this supremely arrogant method of discorse.
and i am curious as to why you think my life is any of your business.... or why you feel compelled to be understood by me.... or why you need validation from someone who, by your own tongue, you have no respect for.... or why you are so certain that i am "pointing and giggling" at every turn. or why you think you deserve "true meaning".
and yes, you're right. my point does not need to be argued. their is no puppeteer out there commanding that i do so. i am free to say as much or as little as i like just as you are free to completely misinterpret me at every turn, espousing so many theories, none of which happen to be based on any kind of reality. as of three posts into this thread, you have basically been having an argument with yourself. which, i admit, can at the very least be entertaining. it makes me wonder just what kind of conclusion you might reach next. (because once again, i've said almost nothing.... still, i bet it leaves you with no shortage of material of which you will certainly respond with due colloquialism. again, please familiarize yourself with the Mishima canon. not because you should (no one SHOULD). i just think you may have fun with it.
May 29, 2003 1:00 PM
|Although I am not familiar with Mashima, or any Japanese literary figures, for that matter, I did some preliminary web reading on him this afternoon. To read even a fraction of his works would take some time, as he wrote constantly and published over 100 works.
I read several short biographical sketches and what I read did not draw me in. He was truly a child of the 50s and 60s, although fully grown by then. From what I read he was an entertainer at his core. An accomplished author, but also a bodybuilder, right wing activist, para military, pornographer, actor. To add to his turmoil he was married to a younger woman, although he was homosexual. His life long struggle for attention came to a head when he and some fellows siezed the Tokyo military barraks and immediatly after his defete, committed ritual suicide. The year was 1970, an ideal period for this sort of recreational activity.
I was thinking of picking up Theodore Rex instead.
|Mishima||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 1:10 PM
|the biography by Edmund Morris? suppose to be slow but entertaining although i haven't read it. if you do get to read Mishima, read the short stories first. there is a particularly nice one detailing a soldier's ritual suicide although the name escapes me now. he was a very confused, by vibrant person whose fuse burned much too quickly, IMO. i was much more of a mishimamite in days gone by, but his words often had a profound effect on me.|
May 29, 2003 8:13 AM
|people are different, not everybody shakes things off like you profess to. not everyone drops the time to babble for 7 paragraphs about why things dont bother them because theyre worrying about tax cuts and fire escapes either.|
|One bit of truth to this otherwise heartless rant...||MXL02|
May 29, 2003 8:44 AM
|A friend and I ride almost every weekend, and when a motorist passes us and blows their horn, I usually get mad and give the guy the finger, while he just smiles and waves. I ask him why he never gets angry and he says, "What's the point? I'm not going to let one jerk ruin my day of riding."
In truth, there is very little one can do to strike back at rude cyclists or motorists. Not letting them ruin your disposition is the best revenge. Blow off their comments and/or gestures and keep your sense of humor-it is the only way to fight back. If you lose it, they win. After all, that loser will probably never be able to have as nice a bike as she rides. Tell her to keep riding that beautiful bike, fast or slow, and keep her chin up.
|One bit of truth to this otherwise heartless rant...||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 9:01 AM
|true... people that curse at me or flip me off always bring a huge smile to my face. in my mind they're saying "look what a complete idiot i am. don't i look like a silly ingrate?" the fact that they're willing to entertain me like that in public is not only appreciated, it's encouraged.|
|Two rudes make a right.||kjr39|
May 29, 2003 7:38 AM
|I always make a habit of it to get offensive and tell people like this off when they make rude comments. Nothing like a F**k O** or something similar to communicate to them that being rude is not going to get them anywhere.
Then again, wieners like that won't say anything to someone that will fight back. That is too much of a risk. Those types of guys usually say something to a woman or someone much smaller than they are (like this wiener did.) Reminds me of the guy that yelled at my wife (who takes medication to regulate her heart) to get off of the trail when we were mountain biking. She was pretty upset, but thankfully I was already at the top of the hill and was stopped. When he got to the top, I was able to inform him that was not polite and I did not appreciate it... :)
Sometimes Karma works pretty quickly...
|re: Roadies are jerks? The reality behind what I thought was a myth.||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 7:59 AM
|BTW... "ya, i'm a slow bastard aren't i? hopefully, i can get better with some more riding. you could ride 40 hours a week though and you'd still be a pretentious p rick."
that's a lot to get out of your mouth though when you're on a climb, laboring. if it's a guy, just tell him "i may be slow, but at least my lyrca isn't showing off my tiny di ck."
|my experience with A-holes||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 8:08 AM
|i'm always one of the strongest couple riders on my normal Saturday morning ride and we usually have about 50 riders, but always lots of newbies. inevitably, one of the stronger newbies will go out of his way to make friends with me and tell me he likes my bike or whatever else. if he's really a jerk, he might also make disparaging remarks about some of the slower cyclists on the ride or about who he thinks is particularly fred or poseur. it seems to be common for insecure a$$holes to make lame remarks about people they don't know just to try to make themselves feel better or make themselves look better to someone else. i ALWAYS make a point of defending the people that are being bad mouthed and it's good policy for everyone else out there to do the same thing.... not just in a cyclist situation but in every other situation as well. when people let idiot's comments "just slide" off their back then they're not doing anyone any favors.|
|If I understand your use of the word partner,||dzrider|
May 29, 2003 8:14 AM
|Picture a guy who's identity and self-esteem revolve around his ability to ride a bike fast. He comes across a woman who has both a nicer bike than his and a better looking girlfriend. So he says something solely to make himself feel better about himself with little or no regard for the effect it has on your partner. More pitiful than evil.|
|Everything loops back to Seinfeld...||funknuggets|
May 29, 2003 8:44 AM
|The rerun just last night had the episode where Elaine dated a guy who kept getting attacked by old girlfriends because he was a bad breaker-upper. The last thing he would say is some type of comment that would eventually drive the ex-girlfriends out of their minds. She ended up attacking him with a fork after he made her self-conscious about her big head. Thats after he had been stabbed and doused with hot soup.
So, the point of my story is that some guys are buttheads regardless of whether they are on a bike or not. It appears that people let things bug them too much. Either let it slide or stab the guy with a fork.
So sayeth the funk.
|More pitiful than evil.||Fredrico|
May 29, 2003 9:52 AM
|You hit the nail on the head. This guy would have no reason to lash out in a chance encounter with a stranger, unless overcompensating for lack of self-esteem, or not being loved, or doubting if he'll ever get laid, or have a nice bike or girl like the ones he's overtaking energetically and with great resolve.
Like alot of cyclists I run into, maybe it was because the blood in his brain was all down powering his legs. I am convinced that alot of cyclists are rude during intense efforts, myself included, because all the fight or flight survival instincts are full bore, forget about the social niceities, like being polite to a couple of ladies.
On the other hand, one philosopher recently defined evil as lack of good. Although people like this guy should be pitied, they still have to know when their utterances aren't working.
|It's not typical but IMO it's not all that rare either.||djg|
May 29, 2003 8:41 AM
|There's a temptation to think that, because cycling is so cool, people who like it are likewise cool. Sometimes, sure, but not necessarily--not nearly so. A lot of the pleasures in cycling are pretty basic and visceral--the feeling of acceleration, the struggle, etc.--not exactly filters for decent people much less kindred spirits. Plus, let's face it, as social as cycling can be, it can also appeal to fairly solitary and anti-social types.
I don't know your partner or what's going on, but I think part of what stings about nastiness in such a situtation is that it hits you when you are struggling physically and maybe already feeling a little bad, if not guilty, about your conditioning. I'm not saying she should feel guilty--I'm not remotely in the kind of shape I could be myself and maybe that's a bit of a shame but life is long and I've got other worthwhile things on my plate right now.
She needs to let this go. The guy was being a total jerk and an idiot (I'm concerned that more appropriate labels might get censored here). That doesn't make the experience pleasant--it's rotten. But while we've all fumed a bit over run-ins with nasty fools, we cannot dwell on them. There's not much you can do other than what you are already inclined to do--be nice and supportive.
|I've got an "Old Guys who get FAT in Winter" jersey ordered||YoGeorge|
May 29, 2003 10:05 AM
|At age 51, I'm way heavier and somewhat slower than I was 22 years ago, when I started seriously riding. I still enjoy riding, and perhaps have some extra joy in having a 15-year old son who's REALLY fast and competitive. It's also frustrating, because all my rides with him end up being a breathless "chase the kid" adventure. But it beats the alternative--not riding--by a TON.
The good gear/mediocre performer thing seems to be very common in many sports and hobbies. I'm a guitarist, and the guys who buy the most expensive guitars ($25k closet queen display pieces) are often doctors and lawyers who can't play worth a darn. The pro players are broke and play $300 guitars, pawn stuff to make the rent. Likewise, I'd bet that most BMW M3 owners aren't very good drivers. And although I'm not a motorcyclist or golfer, I'd bet that the most expensive motorcycles and titanium clubs are owned by folks who are not the best riders or golfers. That's fine, actually---there will be more used M3's on the market that might tempt me in 5 or 10 years.
The major diff in this situation might be that the lady was very visible and accessible on her bike, whereas the expensive guitars sit in display cases where the public see them, and it's not really clear how good or bad a driver the guy who just passed you in the M3 or new Corvette is. Of if it's clear they can't drive worth a darn, they won't hear you tell them.
This has been an interesting thread, and I do know how a specific remark can bum a person out. The major comfort here, though, is that maybe next year, or in 5 years, or ever after retirement, we'll all still be able to ride our bicycles, and maybe even get faster than we are now because we have more time to ride.
Enjoy the lovely spring weather, enjoy the nice Look bike (I've been thinking of carbon fiber myself, for the damping characteristics to make it easier on my frail old body.)
I'll wave when I see ya--I'm the one wearing the Old Guys jersey, and hanging on the back of the club ride (and sitting out of the sprints) like I did last night. But I was still in the last bunch of 6 riders (we started with 45 folks), and put in a nice 43 miles, more than most all of the hotrod riders.
|It's not just roadies...||Bonked|
May 29, 2003 10:07 AM
|I recently went cruising by dude on a mountain bike who, after my customary, "How ya' doin'?" spontaneously erupts into a barage of f*ck yous. Unfortunately I had to stop for a light not long after and he caught me just as the light turned green; I had to endure another rash of f*ck yous etc. In the end there are nice people who do anything and jerks that do anything...you just have to ignore the jerks.
PS - guys the like one you describe piss me off too.
|It's not just roadies...||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 10:21 AM
|i'm missing why you got the f you - was he just retarded?|
|It seriously beats me...I still can't believe it happened! n/m||Bonked|
May 29, 2003 7:09 PM
May 29, 2003 10:43 AM
|next time tell him that he isnt setting the world on fire either. Tell him your just on a recvery ride from the previous days century and to piss off.|
|'Young punk' being key here...||rwbadley|
May 29, 2003 11:20 AM
|I think it's possible that each of us did something rather brash, stupid, or offensive at some point in time. Maybe years ago, maybe yesterday.
Relax, the kid is a puppy yet, he will learn eventually some social grace. Knowing when to avoid harsh, damaging words takes time and experience. More time for some than others.
Let his comments roll off, like water off the ducks back.
A good topic for the board tho'. As you can see here, the world is full of opinions.
|carefull where you tread...||Frith|
May 29, 2003 1:49 PM
|It wasn't that long ago that I was spending far too much time convincing smug adults that my age didn't necessarily mean I couldn't be trusted, that my opinions were valid, and that 20 years of age difference had more to do with than number of candles on a cake than a heirarchy of power. I agree in part with what your saying. Lets hope the jerk in question does indeed grow out of that attitude. My guess though is that he'll go from a "young punk" to an "mean old grump" and that his age will continue to have little to do with the fact that he is simply an ass.|
|carefull where you tread...||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 2:21 PM
|wise beyond whatever your years might be....|
|carefull where you tread...||rwbadley|
May 29, 2003 3:07 PM
|Quite true...and yet there is hope...
I remember in high school, there was a guy (ok, more than one)who was a bit of an @ss. When I saw him at our twentieth reunion (five years ago) He seemed to have gotten over most of it (of being an ass). I related a story to him of something he had done that I was witness to. It was a funny story, and we laughed about it. He said "Well, I was young and quite an ass back then, now I'm just an @ss" There was more laughter all around...
Your point is well taken. I do think sometimes age will take the sharp edges off a person. In the case of the jerk bothering JT, I'm pretty sure someone will eventually teach him a lesson of when to hold his tongue.
|true enough nm||Frith|
May 29, 2003 5:07 PM
|Tell her next time to tell the kid....||russw19|
May 29, 2003 11:21 AM
|Just laugh at the kid and tell him this is her 3rd ascent of the mountain that day... ask him how many times he's gone up so far?
That would put any smart-a$$ roadie in their place.
By the way, tell your girl that I admire that she is climbing that mountain.. I live in Florida and respect anyone who willingly goes out for a day of climbing. I hate to do it, that's why I moved here!
|Wow, this thread sure took on a life of its own!||jtolleson|
May 29, 2003 11:36 AM
|It wasn't my intention to turn this into the major issue of the day, but to share what was really my first majorly distasteful encounter with a fellow cyclist.
To those who gave me a little "he's a jerkoff" solidarity, thanks. I needed to vent, and you were helpful.
To those who felt the need to hyperanalyze and criticize whether the words should have stung so, sorry I inconvenienced you with what is admittedly a fairly minor life experience. I think that if you saw a loved one get upset by an insult from a stranger, you might be a little more sympathetic, but then again, maybe not.
PS, DZ, yes, you understood my use of the term "partner." And I've decided that your theory wins the prize.
|only appropriate response||DougSloan|
May 29, 2003 12:15 PM
|The only appropriate response in a case like this, as much as I hate to admit it, is a hearty "f@ck you." Really is nothing else to be said.
Yes, karma will catch up with him.
|only appropriate response||Mike M|
May 29, 2003 12:37 PM
|I once said the only thing you can tell about a (unknown)cyclist is the name on his bike. Good advice.
And People in the back always have more fun. Try it once, for fun.
|nice||The Human G-Nome|
May 29, 2003 12:55 PM
|I once said the only thing you can tell about a (unknown)cyclist is the name on his bike. Good advice. >>>
that's definitely my quote of the day.
|The Standard Comeback...||Lone Gunman|
May 29, 2003 4:02 PM
|"You gotta learn to go slow before you learn to go fast!!!" Now granted this bit of wisdom is not comprehended by this "yute", but we all know what his aim was. He passed someone and had to try and rub it in by putting it in your SO's eye the only way he knew how, by making an insensitive comment. This is probably standard banter for the group he hangs with.|| |