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If we can break away from Cipo Saga, I need advice on 2/days(9 posts)

If we can break away from Cipo Saga, I need advice on 2/daysSwat Dawg
May 21, 2003 2:32 PM
I'm pissed about Cipo too, but I am going to channel my frustration into becoming a great bike racer this summer a la Cipo! LOL, Corny, Ay! Anyway, my work schedule will be much more consistent than I have had in the past, 8:30 to 4:30 M-F and I want to be on the bike as much as possible. I think I want to do two a days where I wake up at 5:30 ride, work then ride again in the evening. I have never found any information about this type of training and am curious if it would work out or if I would just run myself down. I am training with the goal of qualifying for Collegiate Mtn bike nationals in the fall, and to build up to race Collegiate A road in the Spring. This program would last from approximately the beginning of June to mid-August, ~10-12 weeks, when I would take a two week break of just easy riding before school and the collegiate Mtn bike season starts in September. Here is what I was thinking:

Mon: One ride. LSD in morning or evening 1.5 hrs
Tues: Two Rides. Hills in morning 1.5 hrs, Sprints or Training race in evening 2-2.5 hrs
Wednesday: Two Rides. LSD in morning 1 hr, speed endurance (ITT)or A-group ride evening 2-3 hrs
Thurs: Two Rides. LSD Morning 1 hr, Sprints or training Crit evening 2 hrs.
Fri: One Ride. LSD Morning or Evening 1 hr
Sat: Race
Sun: Race
I would ride hard for 3(?) wks take a rest week, with decreased time and intensity, then would start on another build cycle.

I would only race twice a Weekend 2 or 3 times a month, and would reserve that day off as either a leisurely 3-4 hour ride or to do nothing bike related day and chill with my GF, etc. I would probably schedule this day during the rest week. All told this makes for 16-18 hours/wk, depending on the weekends, with 3 or 4 days of intensity, and 3 or four days of recovery. Has anybody ever done something like this? Do you think it would overload my body and make me burn out, would I be flying by the end of the summer? For a little info on me now. I'm 21 now, will be 22 soon. 5'9", 160-165. Currently ride 6-10 hrs/wk depending on school work. I am just started racing road, and am choosing to race Cat 4. I raced Mtn bikes last year, beginner, and am racing sport this year. I finish midpack in both (Though sport is really competitive). I'm hoping to make some real improvement this year, and hopefully I can get a plan that will help me do so. Anybody with some experience give me help and tweak what you think needs to be tweaked or make suggestions. Hopefully, come summers end, I'll report back with some good news. Thanks

Swat Dawg
re: If we can break away from Cipo Saga, I need advice on 2/daysrussw19
May 21, 2003 6:04 PM
Hey Swat, I don't know if this will help you or not, but I had a similar ride schedule in high school. I would get up and ride at 6am for an hour and a half, stop back by my house and grab a change of clothes and my books, ride to school and shower and change there in the locker room, go to school, then ride from school home, grab some work clothes and ride to work (a bike shop) and work from like 3:30 to 6 or 7 (summer or winter hours) throw the light on my bike and put another hour in before I went home. When I would get home I would do my homework and eat, shower, and go to bed... It sucked b/c that's all I did. It is rough on the social life, but at that time in my life I was picked for Olympic Development. One thing I will tell you is that unless you love riding your bike more than anything else in the world, don't try this schedule... you will burn out on it very quickly. I don't think I could ever do that again.. too much time spent on the bike at the expense of time spent with the people I love. But hey, if it works for you, more power to you, but be careful of burning out fast.

What I would tell you is a better thing to do is try checking out the training schedules of some of the A riders at your school. Some guys and gals are just gifted and don't have to train hard to be fast, but most really have to work at getting fast. I found over the years that I was fastest when I worked harder at maintaining my base fitness. In otherwords, I would be faster if I worked harder in the off season. If I took too much time away from the bike or the gym, I would suffer. A lot of fast people are fast because they stay fit. So keep that in mind too.

And my last piece of advice is these 2 old cycling axioms: Train hard, rest harder.
and Why stand when you can sit, why sit when you can lay.

Both those say the same thing... no matter how hard you train, if you don't give yourself proper recovery time, you will not get ahead. Don't overstress your body with the lack of sleep from riding in the morning, going to work all day (more important if you are standing all day, instead of sitting) and then riding hard after work. Make sure to give yourself plenty of time to sleep and recover and that will actually make you faster.

But the point is that between the two, overtraining is just as bad, if not worse, than undertraining.

Sounds like a recipe for over-training.KG 361
May 21, 2003 8:02 PM
Where are your rest days? After doing hills in the AM you should really not go hard again in the evening. Maybe a nice easy spin on the 2nd ride? You'll be "Squashed Dawg" instead of "Swat Dawg" =)
Squashed Dawg, LOL..Will I really end up overtrained that badly?Swat Dawg
May 21, 2003 10:17 PM
I went throug a period in early April when I was overtrained and I don't want that to happen again. It was absolutely terrible, couldn't figure out how I was training more and more, and getting slower and slower. Just felt like crap. But I took two weeks off with just easy, easy rides 3x's/wk and I continued to race on the weekends and I recovered. The goal of this period would be specifically to overload my body in 3 week stretches then take an easy week off, all culminating in with the two week break in late August. Will I really be overtrained that badly? I really want to put in the time because I have the time, and I think it could initiate great gains. If I listen to my body and take it easy when I my body says, "NO!" will I be OK? I know that my summer racing will be poo, results wise, but I can accept defeat now, if it will help me achieve my goals later. Is there anything that I can train that would make me less likely to end up overtrained? Changing Tuesday was suggested, should I change more? If I had to change something, I think going easy on Tuesday morning, and not exceeding about 80% on Wednesday could forestall the beast. Ok, maybe it's time to give a coach a call, any recommendations? Preferably Philly area recommendations? Thanks for the help.

Swat, Squashed, Squat Dawg
Will I really end up overtrained that badly?russw19
May 21, 2003 11:44 PM
My problems when I overtrain tend to be me getting sick very easy. I have allergy problems to begin with, and if I overtrain my immune system takes a nosedive. I tend to get sinus infections from what would only otherwise cause me the sniffles.

Squashed Dawg, LOL..Will I really end up overtrained that badly?KG 361
May 22, 2003 9:39 AM
I'm no racer, but I do know several. A guy who rode on Team Mercury lives here near Harrisburg-he's coaching now, but I suspect that that is a bit too far away for you. I think that taking it easy on Tues would be good-I usually tend to go too hard too often also, so I try to get at least 1-2 easy days in /week. If I go hard in the morning I'll take it REAL EASY on my commute and then the next day, too. Since I suspect you are younger than me, your plan to back off 1 day could be good. Listen to your body-if you feel like s&*t, take it easy. There's always tomorrow.
sounds like a recipe for over-trainingtarwheel
May 22, 2003 5:31 AM
I'm no racer, but I know that I would get burned out and overtrained riding like that. It seems to me that you need to allow some more recovery time and/or crosstraining. On the other hand, lots of cycle commuters ride twice a day, but they aren't doing sprints, hill-climbs, intervals, and long distance every day.
As a commuter, here's my theoryvindicator
May 22, 2003 9:27 AM
I haven't done any racing, so I can't comment on how this works for racing, but I ride twice a day 3-4 days a week, plus once on Sat and once on Sun.

I treat each day as one day. So, if I'm riding 90 minutes, but it's split between the two commutes, I still treat it as 90 minutes. I ride hard both in the morning and in the afternoon on "hard" days (intervals, hill sprints, whatever). No burnout or overtraining yet. BUT, I think the key here is total volume of hard stuff. If, given your conditioning level, where you are in your training, etc., you should only be doing 2 hours of intensity on a given day, then limit it to that. Don't do 2 hours in the morning and then 2 hours in the afternoon. Either do one hour each or do two hours of intensity in the am and then something easier in the pm.

More importantly, on "easy" days I ride easy in both the am and pm. Otherwise, it's not an "easy" day, is it? And I think when your body needs an easy day, it needs 24 hours without hammering. Taking the same number of hard and easy workouts but rearranging them so you're doing one hard and one easy each day won't work, IMO.
That's a good perspective...Hadn't thought about it that way. nmSwat Dawg
May 22, 2003 11:22 AM