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IT'S almost unanimous, Shimano is the choice at the TDF(33 posts)

IT'S almost unanimous, Shimano is the choice at the TDFLazywriter
May 17, 2003 10:26 PM
Take a look at this picture. So much for legacy, heritage, history and passion of Campy. Only one bike in this picture is NOT Shimano Dura Ace. But it is still garbage, right???? Maybe I should junk my 3 bikes loaded with Dura Ace. I am being intentionally inflammatory, but am trying to make a point of saying that Dura Ace is awesome stuff and that this argument is ridiculous.
Which bike is not equipped with Dura Ace?Indurain 03
May 17, 2003 10:42 PM
Armstrong, Jalabert, and Sevilla all rode Dura Ace during the 2001 tour. So who is riding the bike that is not equipped with it? No, Dura Ace is not garbage but I doubt that when compared with Campagnolo it can boast as many victories in the tour. So much for legacy, heritage, history, and passion of Shimano.
Which bike is not equipped with Dura Ace?FORT-Cyclist
May 17, 2003 11:53 PM
yes, lance was the first tour winner ever equipped with shimano.
re: IT'S almost unanimous, Shimano is the choice at the TDFThe Human G-Nome
May 17, 2003 11:59 PM
honestly Lazy, is this the best you can do? post a tired, old thread just for the sake of flaming? don't you have ANYTHING better to do with your life. i defy you to name me one person who says DuraAce is "garbage". go ahead, give me their handle. are you so insecure about yourself, that you'd bother to care what anyone else thinks of the pieces of metal you put on your bike? geesshhhh.
Are you drunk again?Spoiler
May 18, 2003 12:03 AM
I'm serious. You sound like a drunk Shimano fan who thinks he's walked into a Campy-Only bar.
"That's right, I'm drunk, OH you shink Shimano's no good? Ilikta shee you shay that to my face. hic Go ahead, arrest me offislur. Thaaat's right, I sharted it and I'd do it again."
Send all your unwanted JUNK campy to me...zooog
May 18, 2003 2:56 AM
I will take it gladly :)
Shimano verses Campy.Juanmoretime
May 18, 2003 3:08 AM
Lazy, I agree with your opinion on Litespeed, I own two of them. I agree that Dura Ace is a very good group. I converted 2 of my bikes to a Record Chorus mix and I'm not going back. With the Dura Ace the fit of the STI levers would give me numb hands. Yes I did try to raise the stem, lower the stem and tried longer and shorter stems. I can ride Ergo's without any numbness in my hands, so I'm a Campy guy becuase it does work well, as Dura Ace does, but the Campy Ergo's fit's my hands better. It's all about the fit.
I see two...seyboro
May 18, 2003 3:14 AM
...check Sevilla's armpit (WOW, there's a thought!!!). Actually, the real reason you can't see more Campy:
The picture is completely cluttered up by extra shifting cable everywhere.
I've NEVER had a prob w/my Campy valvestem caps! (nm)jesse1
May 18, 2003 3:42 AM
Giving Lazy replies he needs!the bull
May 18, 2003 4:11 AM
First first of all the guys riding shimmano in the tour are paid to ride shimmano they do it because it is the teams choice not theirs!
Most sorry shmucks ride shimmano from day one it is what comes on all mass produced bikes and even some higher quality cycles making there way into the faster group rides across the country.
As a professional technician I deal with small moving parts all day long.I see the craftmanship of things and how they are assembled. There is a differance between all the differrent levels of groups and the way they are put together.Dura-ace is a very good group I have used it for over 25,000 miles! I know how it shifts it never let me down in any race.When the right side shifter failed the LBS handed me another one right there on the spot. Recently I started using Record 10. It is a very nice group! I like it better than the Dura-ace I was currently using.Trust me I could have spent allot less if I thought Dura-ace was better! I think you like Dura-ace alot I recomend you stay with it! Anyway Record is a different feel.
Feels more solid I get better shifts and it is lighter as well!
I like the way the group looks too it is very pretty!
Lets take a look at chourus now and compare it ultegra!
Chourus I think is more like a workhorse it is as well built as Record but weighs more! It has the same proformance!
Ultegra is not anywhere up to par with Dura-ace. It rattles and is cheap! It shifts terrible! Overall it is good entry level stuff for a bike that is purched in a bike shop for around 2 grand.
Personally I cant see why when you can get chourus for 650 bucks and go from there but some people dont buy bikes from scratch and build them up like do!
re: IT'S almost unanimous, Shimano is the choice at the TDFmackgoo
May 18, 2003 4:24 AM
I hear at the end of every grand tour the Shimano stuff get's replaced, except for the brakes of course. Actually I heard it was the end of each stage, but even I couldn't believe that. Campy? Well that's a different story.
official countmike r
May 18, 2003 5:30 AM
CUT AND PASTE FROM CAMPAGNOLO'S WEBSITE, SPONSORED TEAMS
TEAM, BIKE, COUNTRY

LOTTO - DOMO MERCKX BELGIUM
QUICK STEP DAVITAMON TIME BELGIUM

BRIOCHES LA BOULANGERE TIME FRANCE
MBK - OKTOS MBK FRANCE
AG2R - PREVOYANCE DECATHLON FRANCE
COFIDIS DECATHLON FRANCE

TEAM COAST BIANCHI GERMANY
TEAM TELEKOM PINARELLO GERMANY

ALESSIO DE ROSA ITALY
AMORE E VITA SAB ITALY
FASSA BORTOLO PINARELLO ITALY
FORMAGGI TRENTINI GIOS ITALY
SAECO MACCHINE PER CAFFE CANNONDALE ITALY
SELLE ITALIA DACCORDI ITALY
TEAM INDEX BIANCHI ITALY
TENAX OLMO ITALY

LANDBOUWKREDIET COLNAGO HOLLAND

IBANESTO.COM PINARELLO SPAIN
ONCE - EROSKI GIANT SPAIN

PHONAK BMC SWITZERLAND

NAVIGATORS COLNAGO USA
PRIME ALLIANCE PINARELLO USA
SCHROEDER IRON LITESPEED USA
SIERRA NEVADA-CLIF BAR TIME USA
JELLY BELLY-CARLSBAD CLOTHING ORBEA USA

SHIMANO TEAMS

US Postal (USA)
components and PD-7750 pedals

Rabobank (Netherlands)
components, SH-R214 shoes, Shimano/Fir wheels and Flight Deck

Gerolsteiner (Germany)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Kelme (Spain)
components and WH-7701 wheels

Euskaltel (Spain)
components and PD-7750 pedals

FDJ.com (France)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Credit Agricole (France)
components, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Jean Delatour (France)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Lampre (Italy)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals and WH-7701 wheels

De Nardi (Italy)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Panaria (Italy)
components and PD-7750 pedals

Fakta (Denmark)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Palmans (Belgium)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals and Flight Deck

Bankgiroloterij (Netherlands)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Domina Vacanza
components

Maia (Portugal)
components and PD-7750 pedals

Boavista (Portugal)
components and WH-7701 wheels

Barbot/Torrie (Portugal)
components

S. Joao Ver (Portugal)
components

Lamonta (Germany)
components, SH-R214 shoes and PD-7750 pedals

Nurnberger (German Ladies Team)
components, SH-R214 shoes and PD-7750 pedals

Farm-Frites (Dutch Ladies Team)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

Vlaanderen T-Interim (Belgium Ladies Team)
components, SH-R214 shoes, PD-7750 pedals, WH-7701 wheels and Flight Deck

b 23 SHIMANO, 25 CAMPAGNOLO
WHO CARES!YoungRcR
May 18, 2003 5:58 AM
why do people make such a big deal over what the pros are riding. We are not pros, never will be either. When you are as strong as these guys, you can ride a bike with campy or shimano or whatever crap you want and still beat the hell out of 99.9 % of the other riders.

These guys aren't great because they ride campy or shimano, and compared to these riders (and EVERYONE on ANY pro team) we all suck... but not because we ride a campy or shimano equiped bike.
Lazy is a shimmano Nazi!the bull
May 18, 2003 6:08 AM
Its a peferance thing that lazy does not understand! . And lazy & Co. wont be happy untill we are all happily riding shimano like him! He will drag this out to the very end.

ALL PEOPLE WHO USE CAMPY ARE WRONG! WE ARE STUPID IDOTS BUYING A NAME! I AM STUPID!

THE END

I HOPE THAT THIS WORKS!
Lazy needs attention..colker
May 18, 2003 11:59 AM
it doesn't matter if it's shimano or campy, italian x american bikes, steel x alum. as long as he can be controversial and provoke responses, it's his deal. he knows the touchy subjects of the board. i wouldn't have a problem with that if he wasn't mean and treated others with respect but he loves to pick on people. he will go for the weaknness, fragility or anything that give him an opportunity to hummiliate others. i have never seen any advice or help from lazywriter to anyone.. have you?
Lazy has good advice!the bull
May 18, 2003 12:44 PM
He means well! He pointed me in the right direction towards some good speakers for my Mac! He has never disrespected me in anyway! I am just tring yo give him a strong argument here.
I notice that he is not arguing with me on this post! Its like he is tring to avoid me or something. I think I got him backed into a corner with this Acura crap he keeps tring to pull out of his a$$.
It's OK because they throw them away after the season nmBruno S
May 18, 2003 7:38 AM
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Lazywriter
May 18, 2003 7:53 AM
I still get a kick out of the bullsh$# statements that Campy never wears out and Shimano is disposable. I see more repairs for springs in the Campy shifters at my LBS than any repairs of Dura Ace shifters. NONE OF YOU GUYS HERE HAVE SEEN ISSUES WITH CAMPY SPRINGS?????? C'MON PEOPLE. You know what I am talking about.
Shimano on the other hand is more akin to an ACURA or LEXUS. High end Japanese stuff with incredible reliability. I had more problems with my Campy hubs and shifters in one year than I have had in 6 with my one bike with Dura Ace. I realize that that isn't a representative sample per se, but all I needed to replace on my Dura Ace was the standard cassette and chain replacement that I would on any group.
Plus that Campy "CLUNK" into gear is aweful. When I shift my Shimano stuff, it is dead silent and SMOOTH. I don't get it. ALfA Romeos have history, passion and heritage but they are raging sh!tboxes on wheels. I will take an Acura NSX or a Honda S2000 over them any day.
Again with the car analogiescollinsc
May 18, 2003 8:18 AM
And you are sorely mistaken about Alfas. But again Lazy, just like the last time you brought this up, people have different requirements.

The NSX and S2000 absolutely bore me to tears. They are purely appliances for speed. This is fine, of course, if all you want is to go fast. Good for you, I'm glad you like things that way.

I don't, and that should be enough for you. Last time I checked you didnt have to ride my bike, so my choices mean zero to you.
Please just drop this garbage, stop bringing it up. You raise no new issues, no new arguments, nothing worth talking about.
Again with the car analogiesLazywriter
May 18, 2003 9:06 AM
What, other than being Italian does Alfo Romeo have on the cars I mentioned? Performance? NO Reliability? NO Technology? Hell NO Nothing dude and you know it. If the NSX bores you to tears, so be it. But all the car magazine editors consistently have called it one of the best cars ever manufactured. There are many many nice cars out there, but the value, perfromance and reliability of the Japanese is hard to beat. Hence the analogy to Shimano is legitimate.
Alfas are pieces of sh$% and I know because I owned a Spider. Awful awful car but was enticed by the whole "Italian" sports car draw when I was younger. IT IS ALL ABOUT IMAGE!!!!!! Nothing more because logically, a more reliable Japanese sports car will out perform, last and safely get you to your destination. Alfas, Fiats, Maseratis are horrible. My girlfriend Dad's Maserati overheating on the Tappan Zee bridge all the time is proof to me that Maseratis suck. You can argue against the obvious, but you look silly.
If this is boring, then you have a funny sense of excitement.
I look silly?collinsc
May 18, 2003 9:19 AM
Im not the one insisting on trolling here. Is this really exciting to you?

I could not care less about your car to shimano analogies. The point I'm trying to make here is that many people do not make choices on objective quantities alone. These choices are theirs alone, and have no bearing on your existance at all. I cannot see why this bothers you so much that you are moved to simple mudslinging.

I can tell quite clearly that an Alfa is not for you. These things take care and patience. Any italian car owner will tell you the same. It is not just simply about the performance, technology or reliability. Those are your preferences, not mine. You go buy your NSX and leave me alone.
Oh, so you admitLazywriter
May 18, 2003 9:24 AM
Alfas are unreliable???? I thought sports cars were about performance, technology and reliabiltiy. I accept that you may not prefer an Acura NSX, but you have to admit it is a better car than an Alfa. I understand that some people may put up with the negatives in order to fulfill an image and drive an Alfa or Maserati, but they often admit that they are pieces of sh$#. I KNOW THIS FIRST HAND. My girlfriend's Dad collected and enjoyed the image these cars projected, but admitted they were horrible cars.
I did not say unreliablecollinsc
May 18, 2003 10:24 AM
As you well know, because Ive told you before, I drive a 24 year old Fiat, daily and with no issues.

They are not unreliable. But they do require more attentive ownership, there is a difference there. Sports cars have always been about performance and technology, never about reliability. Im sure if you compare modern Alfas to your beloved Acura you will find similar technologies (in fact the old standby VTEC is quite dated in comparison with other modern valve controlling systems).

I do not have to admit to anything. I do not believe the NSX is better than an Alfa. But that is, as should be incredibly obvious by now, because my preferences are not the same as yours. By your value system it certainly is a better car (though which generation Alfa we are talking about has suspiciously not come up), but not by mine.

The final answer, Lazy, is I drive one because I LIKE IT. I dont care how you feel about its specifications as compared to something else. That doesnt mean sh*t to me.

I use it because I like it. I dont know how you can concern yourself so much with other people's decisions.
Hey lazy!the bull
May 18, 2003 10:58 AM
What the f*#( do you now about Acuras!
They are like Shimmno!
They trans shifts smooth but fail all the time!
Have you gotten your warranty card in the mail yet?
Ridiculous!!!!Lazywriter
May 18, 2003 11:14 AM
So what you guys are saying is that Alfa Romeo is a more reliable car or just as an Acura???? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
can you read?collinsc
May 18, 2003 11:17 AM
I dont believe I said that anywhere. I dont think youre listening.

If youre not even paying attention to this argument then you really are nothing but a troll. Thanks, Im glad we established that you are immune to communication.
All cars fail these days!!!!the bull
May 18, 2003 11:30 AM
The days of the early 90's honda awesomeness are gone!
With OBD II all these cars are prone to have more problems!
Forget it Lazy its over the BS is done go ride your bike!
Have a good day!
It has been fun!
Relax kiddies, they both work great.sctri
May 18, 2003 11:35 AM
They are both top of the line.
They both cost a bundle.
They are both the best that either company offers
They both are good enough for the euro pros
They are both waaaay better than the average cyclist needs.

NOW, GO RIDE YOUR BIKES AND STOP SQUABBLING!!!

RC
SQUABLE! SQUABLE! SQUABLE! SQUABLE! SQUABLE! SQUABLE! SQUABLE!YoungRcR
May 18, 2003 2:40 PM
my testicles itch...
At least he has a mission in lifeSpoiler
May 18, 2003 3:50 PM
Jousting at Italian windmills...
What an F....ing waste of time. Just ride your bike (NM)DY
May 18, 2003 4:18 PM
re: IT'S almost unanimous, Shimano is the choice at the TDFmoo2
May 18, 2003 6:42 PM
Quoth the troll:
"I am being intentionally inflammatory, but am trying to make a point of saying that Dura Ace is awesome stuff and that this argument is ridiculous."

Yes you're being intentionally inflammatory. Yes this argument is rediculous. So why do you keep bringing it up over and over and over again?

At least have some creativity in your trolls, will you? This is getting boring.
SHIM is largest sponsorwielerpret
May 19, 2003 1:26 AM
Nice picture, what with baby-faced cutie Oscar Sevilla. I do hope he has no more knee problems (?) and can compete in this year's TdF and Vuelta.
Shimano is simply the larger manufacturer of the two and is a massive sponsor of the pro peloton.
Teams like Fassa Bortolo (Bartoli, Pozzato, Basso, Petacci), Quickstep-Davitamon (Museeuw, Bettini, Virenque), Saeco (Di Luca, Simoni), Lotto-Domo (van Petegem, McEwan), Cofidis (Millar, Atienza, Mattan), Phonac (Moos, Elmiger), Late team Coast, -now Bianchi (?)- (Zulle, Ulrich) Landbouwcrediet-Colnago etc... all have Campy stuff.
So, never mind any intentional inflammation dear reader.
Good riding. Luke. Amsterdam. www.iwaarden.com (click: 'mijn fietsen' =my bikes)