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Dangerous?? Seat setback question.(23 posts)

Dangerous?? Seat setback question.Kristin
May 16, 2003 3:08 PM
I'm amazed that a seat can go back this far. This is one that a friend gave me, since I'm looking for a new saddle. And this is actually how far back I want to be. But I'm pondering where this would plot on the Darwin scale. Is it okay to ride with my rails mounted so far back, or should I invest in the Thompson setback?
I dont think its dangerous but..the bull
May 16, 2003 3:40 PM
The rail can act as somewhat of a suspinsion!So it it were way forward like that it might feel a little stiffer.
Why do you need the seat so far back! Wow is your kop postion correct?I would think about a custom frame if I needed a seat that far back!
I am thinking about a custom frameKristin
May 19, 2003 5:29 AM
Its just not in the budget yet. I hope to do data entry for my old tax firm for the next two PT seasons to raise money for the custom frame. I don't know if my KOPS is right or not, but I know I'm more comfortable than I've ever been. In order to get this position, I had to install a 60mm stem as well. Bike looks funny now.

Its hard to tell from the picture, but the rails on the saddle are back so far that the front of the mount is exposed. I had to tape it up with electrical because it was chewing up my shorts.
Check KOP !the bull
May 19, 2003 7:37 AM
Get a peice of floss or string let it fall (tie a weight to it).Then tape to bottom of knee-cap then move seat until it is slightly before axle of pedal when crank is at most forward 3 o'clock position.Or post a pic and let us check you out!
re: Dangerous?? Seat setback question.kanekikapu
May 16, 2003 4:43 PM
in my opinion, the seat is a little to far back, a thomson setback post would be a better idea because your curent setup is putting a chunk load of pressure on the rail-- a possible failure point and you don't really want it to happen because most injury caused by the breakage of the seat or the post is pretty ugly. plus it doesn't look right...in addition you current setup had suggested that the frame may be the incorrect size or the geometry is too aggressive (but i think that is not your case simply those geometry are more common in recent bike with compact geometry). thanks for reading
re: Dangerous?? Seat setback question.Sintesi
May 16, 2003 6:04 PM
Well first, a Thompson "set back" is only set back because the original seatpost they produce places the connection to saddle directly at the top of the post. Most seatposts have a set back, in fact a straight Thompson is more or less a "set forward."

Looking at your seat, that is way too far back. I got to wonder about either your frame, or thy crank.

Why do you want the seat that far back?
I think....very long femursKristin
May 19, 2003 5:47 AM
This was something that no one took into account when I purchased the frame. I was fit at Lickton's recently, and will probably go back and have them take another looksy, once I find a saddle I'm satisfied with. This one has the longest rails I've ever seen, but I don't think its gonna be my final selection. I'm having some pressure point issues with it.

The frame technically fits, but I believe it would be considered a tight geometry. As I'd never ridden road before I bought this frame and was/am considerably out of shape, the bike was really taking a toll on me. I'd get extremely tight traps and neck. My bars were too low and my seat too far forward. The result was that all my weight was on my hands. I literally felt as if I was falling every time I rode. As a matter of fact, once my hands slipped off the bars when I was zoning and hit a hole...I nearly did a face plant. Not only is the frame compact, its set up for a guy with short femurs. No wonder pedaling has been such a chore. During the fit, we decided to jury rig a more relaxed position on this frame until I had that cash to buy custom. Changes made this summer:

New saddle, no gel,
more set back
60 mil stem
Bigger cassette (which has been my salvation)

For the first time, I'm nearly comfortable on the bike. Getting the saddle back has allowed me to tap more power, and I don't get spent nearly so quickly. I'll work two crazy tax season's and should have enough to buy a custom Gunnar--perhaps even a Landshark!! (But that would be alotta hours.)
Give it some more time!!! Discomfort not related to saddle fwdFez
May 19, 2003 10:47 AM
A lot of the discomfort you described is more of a function of bars being too low and the lack of cycling fitness.

The saddle being too far forward (by itself) is NOT a cause of neck and shoulder pain and that feeling that you were "falling." That probably was almost all due to bars being too low and maybe even a saddle angled down so your weight was sliding fwd to your hands.

If your saddle was previously centered on the rails, maybe you could have just made it level and raised the handlebars for comfort. And be patient... there is no substitute for some good base miles. You will eventually feel stronger and regain some of that core strength.
You already have a setback seatpost.Fez
May 16, 2003 6:28 PM
The Thomson setback post puts the saddle in the same position as the post you have.
The Thompson setback has more setback than mine. nmKristin
May 19, 2003 5:48 AM
Sorry, after reading the other posts, I think I've confused Thompson and Easton. nmKristin
May 19, 2003 6:06 AM
Don't even bother with the Thompson setbackMR_GRUMPY
May 16, 2003 6:37 PM
Your Am. Classic has more setback than the bent Thompson. If you have to have that much setback, you might have to get either an Easton EA70, an Easton EC70, or a Look seatpost. The EA70 is about $70, the EC70 is $110, and the Look is more, I think. The EA70 only comes in a 400mm post, so you will have to either cut some off, or just use the whole thing. If your bike fits OK the way it is, you will need the same size frame with a longer top tube, on your new bike.
The only bad thing that might happen with your seat like the way it is, is that the seat rails might break. But that's only a small chance.
Is this a joke?Fez
May 16, 2003 6:47 PM
If that is your intended seat position, no wonder you are having fit woes. And that could explain the short 60mm stem.

For most folks, a seat setback that drastic would be found on a frame with something like a 78 degree seat angle.
re: Dangerous?? Seat setback question.vancouver_velo_rider
May 16, 2003 10:39 PM
your least expensive option is to buy a long stem, you could probably pick one-up at a used bike shop for very cheap. With a longer stem, you can adjust your saddle towards its normal centered position, you'll find it'll add more comfort to your seat. :)
re: Dangerous?? Seat setback question.Gleep
May 16, 2003 11:58 PM
I had to put my seat back on the rails quite bit as well to get a proper knee over pedal arrangement during a fitting session at my LBS. I found out I have a long femur for my height and inseam length, and consequently, I had to set my seat back more than what would be considered normal. I'm considering getting a custom seatpost from Bold ( http://www.boldprecision.com/bicycle.htm )to get some more setback so I can run the seatpost clamp in the middle of the rails rather than on the very front of them. My choice is more of an aesthetic one though. I don't like the look of my seat slid all the way back, I don't think that it presents a problem or danger though.

Just my $.02
Vancouver, read what Gleep postedKristin
May 19, 2003 5:58 AM
What Gleep says is correct. Going with a longer stem would be exactly the wrong thing to do in my case. My legs are 2 inches longer than most men of my height and most of that is in my femurs. I haven't measured my KOPS on this setup yet, and perhaps I need to come a tad forward, but this is close to where I need to be. As a matter of fact, in order to get this setback, on this bike, I just installed a 60mm stem.
KOP??Sintesi
May 17, 2003 6:04 AM
But this affects the knee over pedal position, no? It's a consideration not to be over looked.

I suggested the same thing once until jtolleson set me straight. ;) There's some leeway but you don't want to fit your bike by stem and seatpost first and frame and crank second. Right?
a couple of thoughtsDaveG
May 17, 2003 5:20 AM
How did you arrive at this position? Measuring KOPS? Trial and error? Also keep in mind it could be a function of the seat. I have found certain seats require different setbacks to achieve the same relative position. I don't know that what you have is dangerous but it probably places more stress on the rails and also you may find the seat tilts up when you sit down due to clamp placement. If you need a post with more setback, a Campy Centaur post is a good option (~$30 at Glory Cycles). A post with even more setback, but more expensive, is the Selcof bi-position. The Easton posts offer a great deal of setback but are even more costly. The Thompson will not provide more setback than the AM Classic you have now
Hmmn..Walter
May 17, 2003 6:53 AM
Like one poster above my immediate thought was to lengthen the stem and get the seat in a more "normal" position. Of course I don't know how your knees line up with your pedals but I don't take KOPS as revealed Gospel anyways. A longer stem is the first thing I'd look at.

In regards to safety I wouldn't ride a saddle like that but I'm sure I weigh alot more than you too.
Will probably damage the rails over a period of time...DINOSAUR
May 17, 2003 7:43 AM
Your solution MIGHT be to go with a saddle that has longer rails. Selle Italia's website recommends that a saddle should be positioned so that it sits on the middle of the rails. The way the saddle is positioned in the photo will probably cause damage to the rails after a period of time. I had a San Marco Regal rails pull out from the rear of the saddle due to an aft position. My solution was to go with a Selle Italia Flite which put me in the middle of the rails( this was on my old bike).

I don't use KOP to set my saddle. I set my saddle 5 cm back, dropping a plumb line from the nose of the saddle and take a measurement from the center of the BB. Then I ride and see where I spend most of my time and make changes accordingly. If your reach is too far back, swap out to a shorter stem, but ball park figure is that if you go below a 10cm stem you need a bike with a shorter tt.

I use a Thomson Elite non-setback seatpost. I've always had problems with tt's as I have long legs and a short torso. I had the owner of my LBS do a fitting and he put me on a frame that had a tt that would work for me. We set it up so the saddle was set in the middle of the rails. The rails act as shock absorbers and if you have the saddle set too far forward or aft it can damage the rails and you won't get the dampening benefits the rails provide.
yes...jsbx
May 17, 2003 1:04 PM
with that seat post. My buddy's Am. Classic post clamp snapped at 50 mph down a descent and he had to have his head stapled shut. He weighs about 185 lbs. He had the seat slammed all the way back, like most the guys in my club do, including me.
hmmm. ThanksKristin
May 19, 2003 6:05 AM
That's a scary thought. Thankfully, we don't have any hills around here!! I usually top out at 35 MPH. But still, I'll keep that in mind. Crashing is no fun.
Look Ergopost?djg
May 19, 2003 7:04 AM
I don't know how to look at the picture and predict whether the saddle rails will fail or not. If I were to guess, I'd guess that they'll hold up, but that the front of the saddle will ride pretty little harsh, but that's just a guess.

The Look Ergopost offers tons of setback (quite a bit of fore/aft adjustability--you're not committed to a particular position by the post) and can be found for about 100 bucks, if you look around. If you are sure of the saddle position, and are looking for 3-4 cm more setback, that's the post I'd get.