|Fondriest or Colnago?||Thadimire|
May 10, 2003 6:21 PM
|I trying to make up my mind on which frame to get. I am considering:
Foundriest Madonna Di Campiglio
Colnago Dream Plus
I am one of those strange guys who is 5'9' and need a 73 degree set tube. To get this on the Fondriest I would have to order a large (57) sloping tube. The Colnago with a 55 CC would give me the set tube that I need.
I prefer to do 70-100 mile rides. I am looking for the best all round bike. The price of these frames are one of my decision points. I anybody has any opinons please let me know.
Thanks for your help
|re: Fondriest or Colnago?||pina|
May 10, 2003 8:09 PM
|Depends on how price driven you are, Fondriest is best deal price wise, but if you aren't price driven, get the dream plus.|
|FYI you can get Colnagos about 40% cheaper from the U.K.||lonefrontranger|
May 10, 2003 9:10 PM
|Either Colnago frame is far cheaper ordered from www.maestro-uk.com; he stocks DeRosa as well. This even takes into account the relatively weak dollar right now. U.S. retail on a Dream Plus (non B-Stay) frame and Flash fork only is about $1800. Maestro will sell you frame & fork for just shy of a grand, and you can buy a CT-1 for what a Dream Plus retails for over here. Whatever you do, if you decide on Colnago I DO NOT recommend you go through the U.S. market; the U.S. distributor (Trialtir) runs a monopoly racket that charges about 40% above European retail strictly because the market (up until recently) has put up with it.
Aside from the fact Fondriest are nice frames, I know basically jack about them. You have to go with the geometry and sizing that best fits you. I'd strongly suggest you see if you can get a chance to test ride both at an LBS or from a friend before making a decision.
FWIW both my SO and I have the Dream Plus, and I also own a Dream Cross. For the application you're considering, I'd forget about aluminum and think more along the lines of the MXL or Classic. A steel bike will give you more value both in terms of durability and comfort. You don't need ultralight and snappy to do the job you're talking about. The Dream Plus and Asso are pretty much full-on raceday bikes, with the Asso being a harsher ride by virtue of its lack of master profile (fluted) tubing which seems to do a really comprehensive job of dampening road shock. My Dream Plus makes an awesome crit bike and stage racer, is far more comfortable than my Easton 7005 ultra-stiff super-aero profile TT bike, and I've done 90 mile rides on the Dream, but if I was looking for a seriously comfy century ride bike, I'd get a Classic or MXL, or if I could spend the $$, a CT-1.
|Question for Lonefrontranger||Thadimire|
May 11, 2003 5:12 AM
I have sent Maestro an email, thanks for the info. Can I assume that you also purchased your Colnagos from the UK? What about shipping and duty? What was/is the average shipping cost and duties you paid to get the frame into the US? Also, did you have to hire a customs broker to clear it through US Customs?
After paying all of the above listed cost would it still be worth buying the frame from the UK?
Thanks for your help
|internet sales & warning to others||lonefrontranger|
May 11, 2003 8:47 AM
|I did not pay VAT or much duty. I bought my Dream Plus back in November when the exchange rates were a tad more favorable to us. His retail on the frame at that time translated to around $870. I paid around $60 for shipping, then at pickup paid UPS a COD (duty) for about $45. Sometimes they tell you to pay this, sometimes not.
The international trade commissions have tried to regulate these types of internet global sales and eventually may control taxes on them, but for now there's really not much penalty. Mike at Maestro is extremely good to deal with.
Warning to others: If you are buying Colnagos off the 'net cheaply and it's not from a Colnago recognised dealer such as totalcycling or Maestro-UK who are licensed distributors, you may be buying "grey market" frames and/or cheaper product built in Eastern Europe. The finish and quality of the Eastern European frames is considerably lower than that of the frames made in Italy. Colnago supports the secondary manufacturing enterprise as it allows them to sell decent if not top quality frames to countries like Mexico where the local economy wouldn't be able to support the higher level. Caveat emptor and always ask question of the seller. If nothing else, get them to give you a serial# on the frame, then e-mail Colnago directly to find out point of manufacture. There are a LOT of marketing scams tied to this particular brand.
For anyone interested, I used to work for a shop who sold Colnago in the U.S. and I've found out all this stuff firsthand by dealing with Trialtir and other distributors in person and talking to Colnago's reps and their sales folks at Interbike. These are not urban legends.
|FYI you can get Colnagos about 40% cheaper from the U.K.||OwenMeany|
May 11, 2003 5:50 AM
|I was very intested in your post..Am I missing something, but the price at Wrench for the Dream Plus and Force fork is only about $100 more then from Maestro...??
However, the price difference between the Master Light was over $600......
Was this your findings?
|How do you figure?||djg|
May 12, 2003 6:34 AM
|I just went to the wrench science site and they spec'd about 1600 bucks for the dream plus with the cheaper flash fork. I've never dealt with wrench science except to toy around with their web site. At least the web site has the curious feature of describing forks along with certain frames but not including those forks in the frame price--that is, when you click to purchase it suggests the fork it already described and shows you the upcharge. Maybe this is just bad web page design and not intentionally deceptive, but it is a bit confusing.|
|FYI you can get Colnagos about 40% cheaper from the U.K.||Spinning Wheels|
May 11, 2003 8:06 AM
|lonefrontranger, I bought a Colnago Classic back in January here in the US for $1000.00 with flash fork.
Are you saying that these frames (Zona tubing) in Europe go for only $600.00??
|I'm talking their full-retail standard prices||lonefrontranger|
May 11, 2003 8:55 AM
|Maestro and Totalcycling will both put frames on special from time to time, clearing out last year's stock, etc... Obviously comparison of closeouts or special deals / wholesale rates in the U.S. can bring the prices closer together. If you compare apples to apples (full retail to full retail) Maestro is still 40% cheaper.
Read my above thread about grey-market frames. Colnago is the most-often grey marketed product in the U.S. cycling industry.
All I know is Maestro's full retail, non-clearance prices on a new *MADE IN ITALY* (this is important, he is a licensed dealer, not a grey market site) Dream Plus frame is still about $200 less than I can obtain via my U.S. wholesale option.
|FYI you can get Colnagos about 40% cheaper from the U.K.||Iamhoosier|
May 12, 2003 4:40 AM
|I just bought a MXL from my LBS. New model, made in Italy, with the Trialtir 4yr. warranty so it is not gray market. Built up with Ultegra triple, Ksyrium SSl, Fight Deck, Kestrel Pro carbon bar, Serfas Rx saddle, Am. Classic post.
$3,000 built. Import may be some cheaper but I needed (& still need) the services of my LBS. Still think this is pretty good deal on this bike. The worst thing was waiting about 12 wks. for frame to arrive from the estimated 5-6 weeks.
May 12, 2003 6:42 AM
|It's a fair price and I don't think anyone is suggesting that there's anything wrong with paying extra to deal with the LBS. It's just that, for many of us--especially those who aren't looking for much LBS support--the extra freight for a domestic Colnago seems like a lot.
For instance, if I wanted an MXL and wanted to put it together myself, I'd be looking at paying just a little under a grand for the frame and fork from Maestro. I could probably do a decent ultegra build for 2k total without strain; probably a bit more with the Ks. It's just a different way to go. To each his own.
|You are correct, I did not mean to||Iamhoosier|
May 12, 2003 3:41 PM
|disparage(sp)buying online and/or overseas either. To each their own. I hope to enjoy my new bike. First road bike, have about 150 miles on it. Road about 30 miles Sunday morning with wind blowing 20-25 mph and had one my best rides in a while. Felt strong (for me) and the closer gearing and position really helped. Still adjusting to the crosswinds with K's.|
|You'll get used to the wheels pretty quick.||djg|
May 13, 2003 6:13 AM
|I've been happy with mine--rock solid. Although frankly, I don't think anything would have felt normal on the 14th Street Bridge in yesterday's breeze--that was a monster.|
|Dream Cross? A Colnago cyclo-cross bike?||Tahoe Gator|
May 12, 2003 6:00 AM
|Is the "Dream Cross" you mention a Colnago cyclo-cross bike?
I can't find any reference to such a bike on the web, including Colnago's website. If such a bike exists, where can one learn about it?
|Re: dream cross||CurtSD|
May 12, 2003 7:07 AM
|re: Fondriest or Colnago?||Barnyard|
May 11, 2003 3:20 AM
|I own a Dream, so you can guess which way I'm leaning.|
|I have a Fondriest and a Colnago..........||african|
May 11, 2003 8:54 AM
|Yeah thats how I solved the dilema you have, I bought one of both. Anyway. I have a dream plus, and it is sweet, it is the GEO and I only get great compliments all the time. I love the ride and I have just put 200 miles on it this week and almost 2000 for the year. Great bike. Maybe get the Fondriest frame and fork, and the colnago bike. Ride the colnago and the fondriest can be a build project.
The fondriest I have is more of a stand out bike, I think too many people have Colnagos now, they have become very popular, the bike to have right now. My Fondriest is a team lampre time trial bike from last years tour. I know of one other fondriest in my area and I told him to get it, he is very happy. Unfourtunatly I have not ridden it yet, it is getting built up this week and I will still have to wait as I need to get a seat post and some other items. Anyway, look I think the fondriest will stand out more, and give you as good a ride if not better, but you have to get the better fitting bike, or the better deal. Good luck and post pictures.
|Can anyone compare the diff or sim between the two bikes?||Thadimire|
May 11, 2003 1:38 PM
|At my LBS I was able to test ride a Colnago classic and a Chic. I was informed that the Chic and the Dream's ride quality would be very close. However he didnot have any Fondriest built, so I have not been able to test ride the bike. If you don't like the Fondriest I can return it.
So how do they compare in ride?
How much of a diff would the carbon seat stays make? I read an article, the attatchment to this month professional cyclist about frame builders, that quoted the Carrera folks as saying that if the entire rear triangle is not carbon you are wasting your time. Any thoughts?