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LBL and what Lance said...don't read if you haven't seen it(22 posts)

LBL and what Lance said...don't read if you haven't seen iteschelon
May 9, 2003 10:05 AM
anyway for the rest of the world thats proactive in being current with cycling events, I remember reading Lances site interview regarding his breakaway with the Saeco and Euskatel rider and how he said they were both useless in that they weren't helpin in keeping their escape secured.

I saw the race yesterday on OLN and noticed that although the Euskatel rider may not have pulled as long or as hard as Lance, he nevertheless did contribute...it was really the Saeco rider not doing any work...I wonder why Lance would say that? Lance also complained he attacked hard during the race because most of the time during the early part of the race was not very interesting racing with no attacks...yet when Lance attacked, he also left Axel behind...seems to me when it comes to breaking away from the peloton, you need all the help you can get from your companions...Lance or the break away group should've slowed a little to let Axel get in because Axel was very motivated to win the race in a non-bunch sprint with the peloton.
Nice showing by Tyler...Dwayne Barry
May 9, 2003 10:20 AM
leading the charge from the peloton on La Redoute also. I wonder if LA even knew who Scarponi was when he was getting dropped by him on the St. Nicholas? And to see Boogerd taking his wheel couldn't have felt good given the apparent animosity Armstrong holds toward Boogerd.
What is the deal with Lance and Boogerd?bigrider
May 9, 2003 10:44 AM
How did the friction get started?

The announcers are implying friction and I am beginning to read between the lines and beleive there is a growing number of people who think Lance hates everyone that doesn't let him win or control the action.
My understanding is that Boogardeschelon
May 9, 2003 10:49 AM
feels that he is marked man by Lance and therefore will never be allowed by Lance to attack a race without Lance watching over him...thereby making Boogards chances of scoreing a win in the classics lower.
I thought it was..IFTreedog
May 9, 2003 10:54 AM
..because LA used to date Boogerd's sister.

;>
I thought it was..brian n
May 9, 2003 12:31 PM
no man, it was his MOM!
I'd mark Boogard too if I was Lancebigrider
May 9, 2003 11:00 AM
That is the ultimate compliment. Boogard is a great classics rider.

The thing I thought was on the verge of insincere gushing praise was tyler talking about Lance. Everyone saw that Lances's engine was strong, Tyler should've mentioned that little detail called tactics (or lack there of).

If you ride all the strong riders off your wheel and the other two are blown up and can't push the pace you gotta either ride it alone or sit up and wait..
What is the deal with Lance and Boogerd?DMoore
May 9, 2003 10:56 AM
This is off the top of my head, so I can't vouch for absolute accuracy. A couple of years ago at Amstel Gold, IIRC, Lance was in a long 2-man break. Boogerd was the other guy, and sat on Lance's wheel the entire time. He refused to help, and Lance did all the work for quite a distance. Boogerd then outsprinted him at the finish.

All's fair, but Lance apparently remembers that event with disfavor. Can't say I blame him...
Right (in part)...Dwayne Barry
May 9, 2003 11:25 AM
Armstrong and Boogerd were away in something like a 20K break with 3 or 4 riders chasing, one of which was M. Zberg, Boogerd's Rabobank teammate and a guy that can take out a bunch sprint. So Boogerd played the team tactic to perfection, he sat on Armstrong, knowing that if the chase group caught them Rabobank was pretty much guaranteed a win because no one there was going to out-sprint Zberg and if they stayed away he'd be relatively fresh and more likely to win a sprint. Well Zberg came to grief with a motorbike in a turn, A & B stayed away and Boogerd out-sprinted him.

Then supposedly, at last year's tour (maybe year before), Boogerd was away in the mountains on a long break and reportedly a deal was made where Postal agreed not to chase him down if Rabobank gave them some help when the time came. Boogerd won the stage. A few days later, a break went with Dekker in it, and when Postal called in the favor Rabobank refused to reign in Dekker and help out.
QuestionSpecialTater
May 9, 2003 11:41 AM
How do you know all of this? In other words, what's the best source for this type of information and is it free? This is all so intriguing and I would live to read about this stuff SINCE I CAN'T FREAKING GET OLN.
Time Warner Cable Customer, eh? nmTNSquared
May 9, 2003 11:50 AM
Da...Oui...Si and I call them every week (NM)SpecialTater
May 9, 2003 12:31 PM
I'm in the same boat...time for a boycott! nmTNSquared
May 9, 2003 12:52 PM
Go digital.KG 361
May 9, 2003 3:14 PM
Comcast didn't carry it a few years ago, so I got a dish. Now they do, so I went back to cable and THEY ARE PAYING ME $25/MONTH FOR 18 MONTHS FOR A DISH I DIDN'T PAY FOR! God bless capitalism! =)
I have Timw Warner in NYC and get OLN nmLive Steam
May 9, 2003 6:33 PM
Try...Dwayne Barry
May 9, 2003 1:23 PM
cyclingnews.com
cycling4all.com used to be the best for no frills results and news but it shut down a few days ago.

There's other newsgroups that Euro's post to, so sometimes you get what they get from newspapers and TV interviews with riders.
That was it, but...wielerpret
May 12, 2003 2:27 AM
Boogerd knew that if he didn't make Lance do the lionshare of the work in the escape, he wouldn't stand a chance of winning. It is not his style at all and seeing him apologize with the appropriate face ('so sorry, no more legs, orders from De Rooy etc.')was quite funny. With a teammate sprinter in the pursuing group it all added up to sound team tactics. Lance didn't like it, but knows perfectly how these things work. I always like his philosophical attitude to the race and I think the supposed rivalry has been much of media making.
The TdF escape with Dekker is another example of normal tactics. It would be completely silly to reign in an escaped rider the likes of Dekker in order to 'pay back' any competing team in that stage of a race. You'd be the laughing stock of the peloton squandering a chance of victory like that. USPS Belgian teamboss Johan Bruyneel is well versed in these matters. This kind of indignation always has an element of playacting in it. Putting a bit of pressure on the competition.
Enjoy the next TdF win by Lance. Ulrich's Team Coast have too many financial problems and have been suspended from competing at the moment. Is Hamilton up for it yet? He has given a lot of himself lately, and should be careful to conserve strength from now on.
Luke. Amsterdam. www.iwaarden.com
Come on...sievers11
May 9, 2003 10:50 AM
It is hard to say what was actually going on in the lead group if you were not acutally in lances shoes. I whould assume what he ment is when the other rider in the lead group took their turn on the front they were unwilling to keep up the pace that lance needed to keep the lead group out from the main pack.

Sometimes a lead group doesn't pick up strong enough riders to keep up the pace. Many times there is one strong rider that pulls of three or four other riders who were just "at the front" when they made their move.

I is hard enought to get a sucessfull breakaway and to condem the team for not getting multiple postal riders in the lead out it a joke. I am sure they would have liked 3-4 riders in the group, but with lots of other rested teams from the earlier slow pace, no team would have allowed a break of 4 postal riders and lance to get away.

It's like making fun of berry sanders for not getting 200 yards russing on any given sunday.
I don't think people are ....Dwayne Barry
May 9, 2003 1:18 PM
getting on USPS for not having another rider in Armstrong's break. Rather for Armstrong expecting someone else's domestique (Shefer) to work with him, and for his lack of tactical sense in dropping 3 guys (Bartoli, Moreni and Merckx) who would have worked with him, by attacking the climbs rather than riding them at a sensible pace that would have kept the group together. This is essentially what E. Merckx criticized him for. He rode like he was unstoppable, and didn't need any help. Turns out he did, and when he realized it, there was only 1 guy left willing to help.
This explanation has made the most sense...eschelon
May 9, 2003 1:33 PM
regarding Eddy criticizing Armstrong that day. It almost seems Armstrong was too confident and the Old Armstrong (lacking tactics/impetuous) peeped its head up that day.
No one from another team owes LA any duty to cooperate...elviento
May 9, 2003 12:00 PM
Blame luck or your lack of power for the loss, not someone else. Merckx would probably have won it...
Merchkx probably would have won it...purplepaul
May 9, 2003 12:46 PM
if not for his bad luck and lack of power.