|CAMPY debate GOTTA SEE THIS||Lazywriter|
May 8, 2003 11:09 AM
|O.K., go to this link and see this IKEA commercial about the LAMP if you haven't already. Click on the T.V. and choose "spot" and then Lamp. Watch this commercial again and again. This could easily be how you Campy fans would feel if you had seen me when I got rid of my Chorus. LMFAO
Spike Jonze is a genius.
|re: CAMPY debate GOTTA SEE THIS||The Walrus|
May 8, 2003 12:03 PM
|This is probably the best of the ads in that series. Scary, really, because I
feel sorry for that lamp every time...
May 8, 2003 12:34 PM
|This is exactly the anthropomorhic (fancy way of saying-attributing human qualities to inanimate objects)behavior that some people engage in.
I get a kick out of the "Campy has soul" maniacs. It is purely ridiculous, but it never seems to end. If only Italian race bike/component fans just admitted that they like these products because it fulfills an image they want to project rather than some inherent "difference" between it and the superficial Japanese "disposable" products.
That is the only argument that ever comes up. People will invariably say from a functional standpoint their is no difference, but you guys latch on to this romanticized notion of "soul and heritage". Did my old Zenith in that ugly wood cabinet have soul? It is laughable.
|"...it fulfills an image they want to project"||purplepaul|
May 8, 2003 12:56 PM
|You're swimming against the tide. Consumers routinely make purchases bases on nothing more than the above statement. Otherwise, almost nobody would buy SUV's. Campy, at least, has a rich history in cycling. If that makes some people feel better about buying it, who cares?|
|and you are a genius, above us all just because..||colker|
May 8, 2003 5:39 PM
|your thinking is less superstition and more analysis. hmmm... but why is analytical judgement superior to imagination? creating an association between heritage, soul and bycicle parts is an act of poetic force. comparing campy and shimano in terms of function only is a poor exercise of thought that doesn't bring anything to the table. are you an enginner? did you invent anything right now? so, the guy who writes an elegy to campy in this site, be it naive or ridiculous, is "acting", performing, creating something. what's your contribution besides that sense of humour that makes no one laugh?|
|But keep in mind...||Val_Garou|
May 8, 2003 12:59 PM
|That this ad poking fun at people having feelings for mere THINGS is intended to make people desire and buy more THINGS.
Or--your new-found ability to throw away any given item should allow you to buy newer, shinier items.
And take photos of them that you post on a website, causing lustful drooling by others who KNOW they're just things, but sometimes (willingly) forget.
May 8, 2003 1:09 PM
|I think it's sad to lead a life void of soul, history, tradition, and depth. Sure, some people are very pragmatic, and look at things, whether it be a bike or a toaster, in a removed, sterile fashion. Others, however, do enjoy the art, complexity, even faults of certain things. It makes life more colorful, richer, and meaningful.
The purely pragmatism perspective push to it's logical end would leave us with no art, no poetry, no music, or at least much less enjoyable forms of them.
That does not mean that wasteful consumerism, like replacing something that works perfectly well, is justified. That's an entirely different issue, and I think that is what the commercial is focusing upon.
Campy, Bianchis, Silca pumps, whatever, are just as important and justified to some as are beautiful sunsets, Yosemite Valley, or the attractive human form. Aesthetics, including the history and tradition aspects of it, is not an entirely wasteful notion. However, if you don't feel it, that's fine; doesn't make it any less valid for those who do.
May 8, 2003 1:29 PM
|I agree with Doug, but that is not to say that there isn't a real functional difference two. I do not like the low effort feel of DA; I like the positive, slightly industrial engagement of Campy. I also like the position I can get into on the hoods better than with DA. And yes, I think its better looking.
I chose Campy b/c it met my needs, but I don't tell people that chose DA that they are stupid, or deluded as the other posters (Doug excepted) seem to (not in so many words, but they imply that Shimano is the only logical choice).
Get a grip guys. Not everybody has to pick what you do.
|I have to say that I puzzled over this. What kind of deprived ,||bill|
May 8, 2003 1:34 PM
|or depraved, take your pick, soul would find that video of the lamp, sit through it, make the connection to Campagnolo for heavens sake, and then rush to bring it here to get a reaction? By comparing it to his very own rejection of a bicycle parts company, of which I was not aware until this moment, and rejoicing in the imagined weeping and gnashing of teeth his little demonstration would bring?
The self-absorption is staggering!!
May 8, 2003 1:38 PM
|The irony is that, to me, the video was denouncing wasteful consumerism, that is, replacing something unnecessarily, but the initial proponent of the video told us he, for less than justifiable reasons, perhaps, replaced one set of components costing far more than a desk lamp with another set of components, and is bragging about it.
May 8, 2003 1:54 PM
|I have irrational affection for my Trek with it's shimano parts! Does that contradict both sides of the argument!?
You can never have too much love in your life - even if it for inanimate objects! ;)
|irrational affection for shiny bike parts keeps me from humping||bill|
May 8, 2003 2:13 PM
|the leg of my secretary. Okay, there, I said it. Somebody had to.|
|The lamp has more of a life than anyone endlessly dwelling on...||PdxMark|
May 8, 2003 2:12 PM
|on the Campy/Shimano debate.... Poor people... Out crawling through the dustbins of the Internet in search of some morsel of allusion to revive a pointless crusade. See the light! Get a life! Sheesh.|
|LOL, Why are you guys on this site so||Lazywriter|
May 8, 2003 3:55 PM
|fu$%ing uptight. It is a great commercial that is worth watching and I was able to see some humor in it for how it relates to the Campy argument. You guys get on your soap boxes and give some diatribe about consumerism blah blah blah. This site lacks a sense of humor and personality. (Let me telegraph all the "then go away" comments). You guys are funny (but in a sad sort of way).|
|Spelling Counts Lazywriter...Where's the Girlfriend/Editor???||serbski|
May 8, 2003 6:52 PM
|"Their"? I think you were looking for "*there* is no difference"...|
|Spelling Counts Lazywriter...Where's the Girlfriend/Editor???||Lazywriter|
May 8, 2003 7:11 PM
|Kill me for my unconscious typo. Has nothing to do with anything.|
|did s.jonze write the commercial?||colker|
May 8, 2003 5:25 PM
|if not.. why is he a genius? the talent on that spot is in the writing. spike's pop videos are wonderfull and while directing them, he is the artist creator. he is a fine actor too but in advertising... i bet he was chosen to shoot someone else's concept. |
don't believe the hype.
|did s.jonze write the commercial?||Lazywriter|
May 9, 2003 4:53 AM
|What are you talking about???? Regardless if he didn't write it, his vision is what makes the concept. I don't know who wrote it, but it is always the director that gets the praise or the criticism. Writers always have an out by saying the director didn't capture the essence of what they were trying to say. Hence the genius. Don't argue with me, you look stupid.|
|No Win Here, Lazy!!!||cyclequip|
May 9, 2003 12:49 AM
|But you gotta thank g#d Campy wasn't 'Made in the USA'!! Imagine the sh1t you'd be putting up with then!!|
|No Win Here, Lazy!!!||Lazywriter|
May 9, 2003 5:00 AM
|The fact that Campy is italian is exaclty what perpetuates it's appeal. Italy has forever sold Americans on this idea. (I am from an Italian family mind you). Italian suits, cars, bicycles, culture etc all have an appeal as being more sophisticted than anything the U.S. can produce. All image and prestige. Personally, I think the Japanese are more efficient and cost effective and put out more reliable products across the board. You are riding an image rather than a tool.
Case in point. Professionals will ride whatever they are paid to. You will never see a team refuse to ride Shimano because of some irrational ideology of history and heritage associated with Campy. It is an instrument, nothing more nothing less. No difference in form or function just your desire to fulfill an image.
|You're making choices based on the same subjectivity you are||purplepaul|
May 9, 2003 6:47 AM
|criticizing. If there truly is no difference between Shimano and Campagnolo, as you wrote, then how can anyone be criticized for choosing either? You have endowed the Japanese with all sorts of qualities that are legitimate, but fully open to debate. So you think they're more efficient and reliable. That's your reason for choosing Shimano. Are they really more efficient and reliable? There are tons of people on both sides who would argue those points. Now, if you said they're cheaper, that's an objective reason. But your reasons are no better or worse than the person who decides they just "like" Campy more, or think it's more beautiful, or more durable, or more able to be rebuilt, or more a part of cycling's history. The reasons you cite, like the ones I do, won't add 1 mile per hour to your speed.|
|You're making choices based on the same subjectivity you are||Lazywriter|
May 9, 2003 7:34 AM
|It isn't an abjective fact that Japanese cars aren't more reliable????? Do you read car report magazine that always place Honda, Lexus, Toyota, Acura at the top of the list????
Maserati, Fiat, Ferrari do not come close. Yes, they have prestige, but don't you think everyone should enjoy reliability. My girlfriend's father owned Maseratis and Ferraris and they all had problems. Horrible overheating problems on the Tappan Zee bridge if they got caught in traffic. Horrible horrible. My friends Alfa Romeo Spider was a sh$% box on wheels.
Yes, they are "rebuilt" over and over because people hold on to an image that leads them to continually put up with the quirks. MARK MY WORDS, no one here would put up with reliability problems with their dialy household goods if they broke down everyday. An iron that didn't work every ohter day ould be thrown in the garbage even if it were made in Italy. It would be unacceptable to have a DVD player in the shop each week. So why do people put up with that when it comes to cars and the more "pretigious" products. See my point. Campy is fine and good, but it isn't anything more than a crank, calipers and shifters. I think you guys overestimate the amount of "rebuilding" that goes on with Campy products.