|I got a beef with Campy||tronracer|
May 7, 2003 1:49 PM
|To shift down (make it easier to pedal) you use the lever on the brake lever meaning you are in the drops. And to shift up (make it harder to pedal thus going faster) you use the thumb shifter on the hoods. Shouldn't this be reversed being you would most likely be on the hoods and standing going up a tough hill and in the drops to go faster on a straight-a-way?
Does any one disgree?
|You must have really short hands!nm||the bull|
May 7, 2003 1:52 PM
|You must have really short hands!nm||flying|
May 7, 2003 5:09 PM
|Yeah cause I personally love my Chorus stuff ;-)|
|shifting from drops too low gear!||the bull|
May 7, 2003 1:57 PM
|shifting from drops too high gear!||the bull|
May 7, 2003 1:59 PM
|shifting from hoods too high gear!||the bull|
May 7, 2003 2:00 PM
|shifting from hoods too low gear!||the bull|
May 7, 2003 2:03 PM
|Man, that Bull sure has some sexy hands||Spoiler|
May 7, 2003 2:58 PM
|in a purely, "I'd be proud to shake his hand" kind of way.|
May 7, 2003 2:02 PM
|The longer lever on each, as with Shimano, always moves the chain to the larger sized gear (front or rear), against the spring action in the derailleur. The smaller lever simply releases a ratchet to allow the chain to move, pulled by the spring.
Besides, it works for most people the way it is.
|Doug you are right but...||the bull|
May 7, 2003 2:20 PM
|If the wanted to reverse the design they would reverse the way the spring pulls(Ie. Rapid Rise)on either derailleur.Just thought I would mention that it could be anyway they want.|
|I think the way it is is good, though.||DougSloan|
May 7, 2003 2:43 PM
|You are sprinting and need to shift to higher gear to top out. Much better to click the little mouse ear thing and away you go than to mess with a big lever when all hell is breaking loose.
On the front, the panic shift is usually when I start up a hill and I'm about to blow, and need the little ring fast. Again, easier to click the little tab.
In preparing for a sprint, chances are you are already in the big ring.
|true dat!NM||the bull|
May 7, 2003 2:54 PM
|Lesson 2(try this with shimmyono)||the bull|
May 7, 2003 2:09 PM
|Shift in high gear in on swift motion!
Shift into higher gears from Top bar.
Hit brakes with out lever moving around all sloppy like.
Have extra low gear for-ahh never mind why bother.
Rember its not a beef with campy ITS A STEAK!
Its only a beef with Shimano!
|never had a problem personally (nm)||ColnagoFE|
May 7, 2003 2:45 PM
|I owned Campy and took it off my bikes||Lazywriter|
May 7, 2003 3:01 PM
|Once I tried Dura Ace, there was no turning back. Campy is fine quality stuff, but Dura Ace is smoother. Campy clunks into gear while shifting with Dura Ace or even Ultegra is so quiet it is hard to tell when it shifted. Campy fans that have ridden Dura Ace all admit this, but they prefer Campy more for an ideology and romanticized idea keeping an italian frame "pure". Switch to Dura Ace. It performs better.|
|Total agreement w/U||coonass|
May 7, 2003 3:12 PM
|I have 2 Waterford 2200s w/Campy R10 on one and DA on another...the DA ride is sheer joy! Of course, that's MHO.|
|Hey I agree!||the bull|
May 7, 2003 3:13 PM
|Shimmano shifts great!
As long as you keep replacing those levers when they break!
|I have Dura Ace 9 speed for 5 years and no problems||Lazywriter|
May 7, 2003 3:49 PM
|It is a fallacy or something Campy fans want to perpetuate that Dura Ace is "disposbale". I laugh at the stupidity of such an idea. Campy is nice, well made stuff but like I said, you guys get lost in the history of cycling. Dollar for dollar, from a functional standpoint, Dura Ace is the best value choice compared to Record with absolutely no performance penalty. My Chorus was too finicky and loud.|
|lets just agree on one thing!||the bull|
May 7, 2003 5:31 PM
|That we disagree!|
May 7, 2003 5:34 PM
|never heard that one before. Bull, c'mon be more creative than that.|
|Hey I had Dura-ace for 3 years!||the bull|
May 7, 2003 7:19 PM
|Never had any serious problems.
I had one lever go bad!I was pissed that I could not rebuild it!
Other than that what can I say!
I do like the way campy shifts and it feels better!
The carbon fiber looks pretty.
I got an extra gear(not like I need it).
Less people have it(esp. carbon cranks).
Allright now for the answer that stirs up the sh*t ya want!
Maybe your stuff does not give you problems cause you dont put in the miles like I do! ; )
|You are just way tooooooooooooooooo||Lazywriter|
May 7, 2003 7:23 PM
|macho for me. Very manly the way you wear out those components. Like a gorilla with a Samsonite. Please, be quiet.|
|I'm the opposite.||slide13|
May 7, 2003 3:27 PM
|I switched from Ultegra to Campy (after trying DA) because I like the feel so much better. A large part is that I like the hoods a lot more, but I also like the shifter feel. It is very deffinite and shifts with athority. The Shimano stuff all seems a little vague in my oppinion. It is smooth, but not the way I like things to feel.
Just what each person likes I guess, but I will never be going back to Shimano after running my Campy group.
|I like clunk and prefer campy.||colker|
May 7, 2003 4:02 PM
|it's a matter of taste. both are excellent, marvels of engineering but campy lasts some more though and shimano fans admit it.|
|I still don't see durability as an issue..||Lazywriter|
May 7, 2003 4:08 PM
|I replaced the cassette and chain on my Dura Ace bikes. Nothing else. Repacked hubs too. Never touched shifters, headsets, deraileurs etc. Campy sells an image of history and legacy. The Ferrari question above reminds me of the Car debate. Yes, Ferrari's are beautiful and perform well but require a lot of attention. An Acura NSX is exotic but can be driven every day with Civic reliability. You are paying for image and "prestige" with the former and function and performance with the latter.|
|I still don't see durability as an issue..||russw19|
May 7, 2003 7:34 PM
|The analogy you just presented goes a lot further to showing the difference between these two groups than you can imagine. First, like the shifting between the two. It's a matter of design philosophy between Japan and Italy. A Ferrari had a much stiffer clunkier gear box that is able to be ground quite a bit more without burning out than an Acura which has super smooth shifting, almost perfect, which mis-shifts are horribly rough on the tranny. Shimano shifts like that Acura.. Campy shifts like that Ferrari. But the Campy stuff is designed to be rebuilt and passed down, Shimano is meant to be perfectly precise until it fails, at that point it gets replaced.
As for the durability... it really is an issue... and I am saying that as someone who has worked in bike shops for 16 years. I own both systems and I honestly like both equally, but they have some vast differences and more than just by design, but by philosophy. How many 8 speed Dura-Ace STI bikes do you see around these days? Even better, how many 6 speed Dura-Ace bikes do you see around? I still see plenty of Campy Super Record and Neuvo Record bikes around. In fact I just bought one. But 10 to 15 year old Dura-Ace bikes are hard to come by... the parts were never designed to last that long.
Campy, like Italy in general, is all about Old World Tradition. You build parts to last 3 times longer than they need to. You build parts that can be rebuild 3 times over before you throw them away.
Shimano, like Japan in general, is all about the latest and greatest technology can produce. As long as it lasts until the next greatest thing hits the market, who cares.... when it's obsolete people won't want it anymore anyways. How else can you explain the fact that Shimano (more in it's ATB lines than road lines) changes it's own standards so damn often? In one year D-A hubs went from having the last cog as a lockring to having actual lockrings... the old stuff you can't find anymore.
The difference is more philosophical than you all are giving credit to it. But Shimano is a Japanese company and therefore has an Eastern way of thinking about the world and the parts they make.... Campy is Italian and has a Western way of thinking about their parts. It's yin and yang.. the black and white cookie.... and from my point of view, either side of that cookie is purty darn tastey!
May 7, 2003 8:11 PM
|Is it the perception that Campy is worth preserving and fixing that makes it more likely to be around in 15 years??? This creates an aftermarket or used parts etc etc. Not many people want to hold onto anything for 20 years. Now that Campy is using carbon, they will not be as durable anyway.
There are plenty of 10+ year old NSXs out there buzzing along like new. The most durable and reliable cars I have owned have been Hondas. My VW has broken down on me with 3000 miles. My friends BMW and Mercedes too.
Hate to tell you that it looks like Campy has taken on more business charateristics of SHimano than they did in past. Progress.................
May 7, 2003 8:31 PM
|All very good points and very true...
For the record, I drive a 91 Honda Accord 2 door 5 speed... best car I ever owned. I woundn't think of trying to drive a Fiat or Alfa Romeo as an everyday car.
Also I think 15 years ago, with the end of Super Record and the start of C Record, was the very best of the best to come from Campy. But I do wish I still had my old 8 Speed Dura-Ace STI bike. It was great. It was a Cannondale 2.8 frame, Sub 1 fork Full D-A STI with a Syncros Cromoly crank. I loved that bike but sold it when I was cash strapped and had quit racing. I was so burned out that I didn't even want to look at my bike anymore.
But I still think my main point of different by philosophy more than just by design is a valid point. And the fact that the two points of view may be converging is just a sign of the growing internet driven global econonmy.
Or maybe I am thinking way too much into this... your call there.
|I drive a Fiat everyday||collinsc|
May 7, 2003 10:01 PM
|Its a lot easier than you'd think. They just take care.|
|I drive a Fiat everyday||russw19|
May 7, 2003 10:18 PM
|I drove a Range Rover for 2 years... I got sick of fixing one thing just to have something new go wrong 2 weeks later. It was an ongoing fight to keep that thing road worthy. It was a kick butt truck, but I just can't afford the extra maintainence fees right now... so I now drive a Honda. Nothing agianst Fiats... I had a friend who had one in high school... it was a very fun car!
|Hondas arent worth a bianchi's rear brake!||the bull|
May 8, 2003 3:12 AM
|The quality of honda is going down hill in the last 5 years.
The price is going up.More gm parts and stuff made in mexico is finding its way under the hood.
One thing is funny is the amount of transmissions these things go through.
When they fail you just stick a new one in -Just like the shimano shifting system.
So yes I can see your point!
I dont see why you like the NSX so much they idle rough and are hard to work on(very tight engine compartment).
I think the S 2000 is a much better deal for the money.
|you know, Lazy||collinsc|
May 7, 2003 10:10 PM
|I agree generally about the whole issue, its dumb and over done (although I do prefer Campy's assertive shift qualities)
Anyway, the Acura may as well be a blender. It is most certainly a tool for driving (and a good one at that). But if you cant see (or rather, feel) the difference between it and a Ferrari, then you will never understand the sentimental argument.
I posted above, I drive a 24 year old Fiat Spider daily. Its tiny, cramped, loud, harsh, and not really all that quick either. It requires diligent maintence and at times some great patience. But I drive it every day. I love it more every day. It is endearing like no other car, has a classic grace that just cant be duplicated.
Any modern car is better in every technical specification. They shift smoother run faster, longer, are more comfortable and much much more safe. But I dont want one.
There IS a feeling about things that people harbor. For some it is the love of technical gadgetry, others crave some subjective subtle (often Italian) artistry.
Sentiment is not a term that I think you understand at all.
|You know, Collinsc||Lazywriter|
May 8, 2003 10:55 AM
|I understand the appeal of artistry, but I think you are buying into Campy marketing hype that is perpetuated by a purist attitude. At the end of the day, it is reliability that gets you home. Campy is reliable and well made, but I would accept the sentiment of Campy fans more if they just admit why they like it. It is not about function or reliability or even durability but rather a sense of purism and a romanticized notion that it make you feel different about riding it.
That IKEA commercial says it best about the goose neck lamp that was put out in the garbage while it was raining with sad music playing in background. You were led to feel bad for the lamp until the Ikea guy comes into the frame and asks "why do you feel bad for an inanimate item like a lamp, What are you crazy?????
|The enduring debate...||Iwannapodiumgirl|
May 7, 2003 4:22 PM
|I still think groupset choice is a personal thing - there is no "right" and "wrong" in this debate.
I prefer the "clunk" of Campagnolo... yes, I have ridden Dura Ace.
And Bull, great hand jobs! ;o)
|Are you George Castanza??? (nm)||TPC|
May 7, 2003 8:04 PM
|ESPECIALLY FOR YOU they are making...||morency|
May 7, 2003 10:20 PM
|an electronic group, so you can shift real easy.
Shimano makes their shifters to rattle so you are continuously reminded of the rrrrreally smooth shifting.
Just to say that both brands have pros and cons, I like campy and you like shimano, neither one of us will ride faster because of it.
These silly discussions are there to remind us that only training will help us progress...
|ISN'T TROLLING FUN !!!!!!!||coonass|
May 8, 2003 6:04 AM
|You just never know what you're going to drag up.
Hondas? Fiats (Fix It Again Tony)? If this thread didn't leave the screen, no telling what the arguments would be over. :)