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Waterford 2200 vs IF Crown Jewel(8 posts)

Waterford 2200 vs IF Crown Jewelrollinrob
May 5, 2003 5:24 PM
OK, I overdid it on EBAY and was able to purchase both of these bikes for a very reasonable sum. I have both of these frames at my disposal right now, problem is my wife tells me I need to sell one of them. Which should I sell?
Both bikes have similer diminsions except for headtube and seatube angles. The Waterford is has steeper angles at 75 seat tube, 73 headtube. The IF is very slack at 73 seattube 72 headtube. It also has a fork with 50mm rake on it.
I love the Waterford because of the attention to detail on the frame and the lugs and the paint job. The ride is quick and stiff, however the same can be said about the IF.
I love the IF because of the beefy chain stays, Nivacrome seat stays and the gusset on the downtube. All of which make this bike very stiff and light. The paint job is a little flashier on the IF.
Both bikes fit me just fine however I have not had the time to do any really long rides on either one of them. I have about 80 miles in the IF and 50 on the Waterford.
I will be taking the best parts off both bikes to combine on one of these frames to have an awesome bike.
I guess I am looking for opinions for from the owners of both these frames and the gurus who frequent these boards about these bikes.
Thanks for reading my long and rambling message
re: Waterford 2200 vs IF Crown JewelHeron Todd
May 5, 2003 7:34 PM
If all else is equal (fit, ride, etc.), I'd take the Waterford just for the lugs. Gorgeous stuff! You will not be disappointed in their quality. Just my 2 cents.

Todd Kuzma
Heron Bicycles
LaSalle, IL
The Waterford is a full race bikeMR_GRUMPY
May 5, 2003 7:47 PM
Look at what kind of steel each is built from. Last years Waterford was 853 and had oversized tubes. I don't know about the IF.
If it's a small frame, it doesn't make too much difference about the steel, but if it is a big one, take the Waterford.
It all depends on what you are going to use it for. If it's just going to be a century bike, either one would do.
The Waterford is a full race bikerollinrob
May 5, 2003 8:34 PM
both bikes have a reynold 853 main triangle, however the waterfords is slightly oversized and olvelized. The rear stays on the Waterford is Tange OX and The IF has Columbus Nivacrom stays which are truly unique, The seat stays are d-shaped with the flat portion facing the tire and chain stays on the IF are huge.
I will be using the bike I keep for fast group rides and centuries.
if both are true to their geom. charts...colker
May 6, 2003 2:14 PM
you are looking at slightly diff. machines. waterfords geom. is steeper. way steeper in head and seat angles. it will ride diff than IF. but then, if they follow their new "custom" agenda, ypou may have similar bikes in the end.
i like the waterford tradition, road heritage and lugs better than IF's welded style but in the end you are looking at two superb bicycles.
Thats a choice I am glad I dont have to make!nmthe bull
May 6, 2003 3:13 AM
re: Waterford 2200 vs IF Crown JewelAnaerobic_Nut
May 6, 2003 10:55 AM
I've had a Waterford 2200 for five years and its still immaculate despite racing it during those years. I love riding this bike because its soo comfy on long rides yet has handled well in my racing endeavors. Its also a wonderful piece of craftmanship in my biased opinion. Tough Choice!
IF Club Racer and Waterford RS-22 and Waterford Paramount ...IFRider
May 6, 2003 6:00 PM
Well, not an exact match but pretty damn close so I can speak a bit.

First, I own a '90 Waterford Paramount which has geometry close to the Waterford 2200. Slightly higher bottom bracket according to Waterford. This bike is my sports car ride. Quick handling crit bike.

I have been riding a IF Club Racer for the past couple of years. The Club Racer has the same head/seat tube angles as the Crown Jewel with a slightly longer chainstay and fork for room for fenders. It also has different chainstays (slightly more robust to handle panniers). This is a tig welded bike and the welds look like little fillet brazing they are so perfect. A nice point is that IF seals it tubes (other than the seat tube of course). This is super nice if you ride in the rain often. I have this bike built with fenders for crummy weather and racks for commuting.

The RS-22 is more inline with Club Racer than the 2200. Slacker head tube and longer stays. Handling is a little more all day than the 2200 I tested. The lug work is amazing and the details like the integrated cable stop in the lugs sweet. This is my all day in the saddle, nice weather ride.

Paint quality is as follows: The Paramount was repainted Candy Apple 4 years ago by Waterford. The is absolutely perfect. I did get the impression that they were psyched to see a well cared for Paramount getting restored and they took extra care. The IF is next. The Club Racer has a very dark blue mettalic flake that looks black in the shade. There is absolutely no imperfections in the paint. No dust, runs or thin spots. The RS-22 follows closely. It is it the same Candy Red that the Paramount was done in. It is absolutely gorgeous. If you look closely, there is some dust in the paint and thin spots on the fork crown stays. It is only apparent when looking super close.

Look at the two companies. They both provide excellent customer support. As I stated, I sent my Paramount to Waterford for a restoration. They stripped and spread the rear end. Repainted and made it like new. Super quality experience. Very friendly and responsive to my inquiries. I also own a '98 IF Deluxe that I crashed pretty hard a couple of years ago. Dented the drive side chainstay pretty bad. Figured it was toast. IF is reasonable local so I called. They said, bring it in. They looked it over and said not to worry. I was impressed as I was more than willing to pay for a fix and they were adament about it being ok to ride. Well it bothered me a ton anyway, so I had them fix it. They cut out the chainstays and replaced them with new updated ones. Repainted and added a rigid fork for a reasonable fee. You can't even tell the bike was worked on. So, the whole Lugs allow you to repair what you could not in tig is a stretch.

When I was looking to add to my stable, many commmented that the Waterford full 853 bikes were a little harsh compared to the IF. I find riding 23mm/25mm tires tends to mute that difference between the Club Racer and the RS-22.

Sorry for being so long winded, but you are dealing with two top notch products and wanted to be thorough.

Now your situations. Basically I would choose based on these criteria in this order.

1. Fit. Does one fit better than the other. Fit is absolutely the longer lasting quality.

2. Riding Style. Fit being equal, what kind of riding are you looking at? Long all day rides or road racing? Crits? The 2200 is a much quicker handling bike. I find the ride of the Paramount more tiring in the long run as I find I need to pay more attention. The Club Racer and the RS-22 decend like no tommorrow. The Paramount is great on decents, but the handling is more stable on the more relaxed CLub Racer and RS-22.

3. Does one get you more excited? Deep down, I love lugs. They just speak of tradition. The IF is more utilitarian to me and not quite like art work. If I could have only one, the