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Flightdeck:Shimano are !%&^*#%&*^@#%(13 posts)

Flightdeck:Shimano are !%&^*#%&*^@#%dsweiss
Apr 24, 2003 8:18 PM
I tore the wire on my wireless SC6501 and called them for a replacement. The wire is hooked to a plate that screws to the bottom of the mount so it is an easy replacement.

But they said: "We don't sell that part"
I said: " But you could, it is an easy fix"
They said "But we don't"
I said: "So Ihave to replace the entire harnass"
He said "yes"
I said" $80 is a lot to spend for one wire"

Get this, he said: "There are smaller things that you could spend more money on"

How about that for a genuis. Customer service for the biggest parts company in the world.
re: Flightdeck:Shimano are !%&^*#%&*^@#%Akirasho
Apr 24, 2003 8:42 PM
... customer service issues aside... it might be possible to repair (solder or a splice?) the wires yourself (I severed the wires to my first Flight Deck years ago... and spliced it back together... no problems aside from the aesthetically unpleasing buldge from the splice in the cable)... and a replacement harness should be had for far less than $80 USD...

http://www.lickbike.com/i3209050.htm

Sadly, when you're big... you take the hit from the occasional customer service issue... cuz said issue is overwhelmed by shear volume of sales... Sadly, part deux, I work in an industry and understand some of the manufacturing processes that make modern conveniences possible... and non user servicable... but the issue seems as though it could have been handled better from an interpersonal POV ("... I'm sorry, but the only option we're able to offer is a new harness...").

Be the bike.
I'd tell them to get bent, then buy a Cateye....nmTower
Apr 25, 2003 3:47 AM
better yet, threaten to go Campyweiwentg
Apr 25, 2003 6:40 AM
but DON'T BREAK THE ERGOBRAIN, because the harnesses are really around $80, and there are no cheaper places to get them.
re: Flightdeck:Shimano are !%&^*#%&*^@#%Crankist
Apr 25, 2003 5:35 AM
It's no fun to deal with poor CS agents I agree. But if a $30 problem with Shimano annoys you this much, then car part replacements may require Heroin therapy.
Sorry about that. It stinks that...Matno
Apr 25, 2003 5:41 AM
...many larger companies don't offer small parts. It's totally unacceptable when customer service people are flippant. Too bad your chances of contacting someone "higher up" in the company are virtually nil.

However, if you ask me, if it's an "easy replacement," more than likely, it's also an easy do it yourself repair. Probably nothing a $10 soldering kit and/or electrician's tape couldn't fix. The only repairs that aren't doable are ones that you can't get to. I don't know where your wire was torn, but it sounds like you can get to it, so don't waste more money if you don't have to! I tore a wire on my MTB in a crash and it was easily spliced. (But not before it ran my max speed up to 226 mph! I'll bet nobody can top THAT!) It's been going strong like that for over 2 years now.
Honestly...Fez
Apr 25, 2003 6:12 AM
Other than:

1) a clean installation (wireless model)
2) convenient button placement on the hoods (overrated)
3) gear cog indicator (nice initially, but no big deal after a while)- I think Dura Ace has this now on the shift cable
4) "Virtual" cadence (only gives reasonably accurate reads when up to speed and not on steep descents)

why do so many people have this thing? It really is not a very good unit, regardless of price. I think you have to hit a start button before every ride.

If its wireless you want, look at Cateye or Vetta. The hood buttons are overrated, and as far as cadence goes, get real cadence or learn how to count your own cadence. After a while, you can feel what 80, 90 and 100+ feels like.

The only time I wish I had the cadence reading is on long, extremely steep uphills, but since I am out of gears, its not like I could change it by shifting. At that point, all I can do is try to increase it.

FlightDeck is cool looking, but probably the last computer I would choose.
Honestly...BaadDawg
Apr 25, 2003 7:33 AM
I just got one and am very happy with it. Its great to be able to change modes without taking your hands off the hoods.

And seeing the gears being used all the time in a pictograph and numerically for 2 seconds after every shift is also very helpful. No more dangerous looking down and behind to see what gear you are running.

And coming from a wired cadence computer I see no drawback to th evirtual cadence feature, plus there is no sensor/wires.

So you see a false cadence when decending. When I'm decending the last thing I'm looking at is my computer except maybe the occasional glance at the speed just to scare myself even more lol.
LOL!Fez
Apr 25, 2003 7:48 AM
I think we agree more than disagree. Does it perform basic cyclecomputer functions? Yes.

The point I was trying to make was it doesn't reinvent the wheel, and the added expense and hassle of the initial installation may not be offset by that cool "virtual cadence" and "gear indicator" feature. Only you can decide for yourself.

I think the Flight Deck should have an additional front chainring indicator for those times when my chain falls off one of the chainrings. They could use an "X" symbol right next to the smallest front chainring.
Whatever.Matno
Apr 25, 2003 7:54 AM
People have the Flight Deck because it's a great computer. It's only possible flaw is having too many features for some people, which can get complicated - especially if you're the kind of person who has a hard time setting the alarm on a wrist watch. For me, the Flight Deck is the best option out there. "Not a very good unit"? Since when does Shimano make anything that's not a good bang for your buck? Quality wise, the FD is right up there with the best. Feature wise, it's ahead of most. Usability may be where it suffers some, but most people choose a mode they like and then just leave it in that mode most of the time anyway.

When you're riding alone, the button placement may be just a luxury, but when you're riding in a tight group, you better believe it's nice to be able to leave your hands on the hoods when you want to look at a different screen.

The dura-ace inline gear indicator is not quite the same as the one on the Flight Deck. Get a little grease in it, and it won't work. Plus, it looks messy. Also, it only works for the rear derailleur. (Obviously, most of the time you know which front ring you're using, but it's still nice to be able to see both in one quick glance). I still look at my gear indicators on my mountain bikes almost every time I shift, and I've been riding them for 10 years.

Why do people always harp on the virtual cadence feature? "Only gives reasonably accurate reads when up to speed and not on steep descents"? Baloney! It gives very accurate cadence when you are pedaling. When you're not pedaling, your cadence is ZERO. That shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Also, I've been using a computer with "real" cadence (a Cateye) for 10 years now, and I still refer to it all the time. Sure, I know approximately what my cadence is, but little differences can have a large effect on a long ride like a century.

Hitting the start button before a ride is hardly a big deal. It's a lot easier than putting on a helmet, and I'll bet you still remember to do that at the beginning of a ride. You only have to do it once. After that, the auto start/stop feature kicks in unless you stop for more than 30 minutes. Personally, I like having a computer that saves battery life automatically.

The only real drawback I can see to the Flight deck is its price, which is still comparable to or cheaper than other computers with the same features.

FlightDeck is cool looking, and probably the first computer I would choose. Oh wait, I DID choose it. Don't knock it until you've tried it, which you obviously haven't.
Easy there, friend...Fez
Apr 25, 2003 9:53 AM
As far as it being a cycle computer, its fine.

However, some folks are very price sensitive, so if you are very value oriented, I doubt you would find the few exclusive features to be worth it. Besides those features and the integration with the levers, I find other computers to be just as good or better. Remember, the setup easily costs $50 more than many other computer setups out there. And it isn't the easiest to initially setup and figure out (but that's a one time nuisance).

Personally, I like computers that are easy to disassemble and reassemble for whatever reason. Could be to clean the bike, replace parts like bars, shifters, etc. The Flight Deck is not the friendliest in that respect.

I have tried it - I just think there are better, cheaper ones out there. YMMV.
Agreedjtolleson
Apr 26, 2003 6:25 AM
The pricing of the Flite Deck is ridiculous, IMHO, and the only cool thing it offers over an Astrale for 1/3 the price is the shifter integration.

I had a Flite Deck on my old ride, and I think the "virtual cadence" is something of a joke. It is based exclusively on simple math using speed and gear, but for those really needing cadence assistance then doesn't deal with erratic pedaling, the pedal-pedal-glide syndrome, and is obviously inadequate anytime you aren't pedaling under load. Someone really wanting to work on their cadence should just spend a season with a reliable hard-wired cadence sensor. I think it has a great readable screen.

Anyway, I put the Flite Deck up there with CF seatposts and $30 bottle cages. Fun accessories for your "mad money" but not ultimately a good value.
AgreedMatno
Apr 26, 2003 9:36 AM
Sorry Fez, I didn't mean to come across as worked up. Just defending a product I like. I fully agree that it's overpriced. Especially for the wireless version (the wired version isn't TOO bad at $65, but still more than it should be. My wireless one cost me $85. Considering that my original budget for a computer was $20, it's somewhat surprising that I ended up with a FD!) It's still quite a bit cheaper than the Ergobrain...

I don't buy the "virtual cadence isn't real cadence" stuff one bit. It's a pointless argument. Virtual cadence is "obviously inadequate anytime you aren't pedaling under load"??? Hello.

You might as well be pedaling backwards then. After 10 years of using "real" cadence, I know the FD cadence is accurate. If I pedal at all, I pedal at least enough to engage the rear hub's pawls. If you can't hear your rear hub buzzing, then the cadence is dead on, regardless of whether you're pushing hard or just pedaling along. If you're letting the hub spin faster than your cassette, then who cares what your cadence is? You're not getting any exercise doing that, you're taking a break. Nobody is going to look at their cadence when their rear hub is buzzing, then look at the FD and think "Uh oh. My cadence is really high right now." They already KNOW that they're not pedaling at that point. If you were to pedal at a slower rate than the FD indicates on the cadence reading, you would STOP. The only reason "virtual" cadence might be a problem is if you were interested in your average cadence, which the flight deck doesn't calculate anyway. If you want that, then you'll have to look elsewhere. (And not many computers offer that).

Also, the wireless cadence is very nice. I had wired cadence for 10 years, and that wire was always in the way. That's probably the main reason I splurged for the FD. It would flop in the wind, made the bike look messy with all those zip ties, and made it nearly impossible to fully clean my bike. Those are nit picky details, but if they bug you, then the FD is nice.

BTW, I have a CF seatpost and a nice water bottle too... (But they were both "free" - they came with frames I got really cheap).
:^)