|Colnago CT1 vs C40||avitar1|
Apr 9, 2003 6:36 AM
|Can someon compare the ride differences between these 2 frames? I am 41, 180lbs and do recreational rides up to a century or 2 a year. want help to keep up, but comfort is more important. Should I be looking at a Ti like a Litespeed or Merlin? or Trek OCLV (but have read too much about a dead feel..I would rather more sporty if it can still be comfortable)|
|re: Colnago CT1 vs C40||MXL02|
Apr 9, 2003 7:05 AM
|If I was you (because you are light enough) I'd get the C40, but you need to test ride Ti and CF bikes at your LBS to determine which one you prefer. Either way, which ever you pick, it will be an outstanding road bike.|
|do colnagos fit you?||ColnagoFE|
Apr 9, 2003 7:50 AM
|first off i'd get a good bike fit and then go from there. if you have the cash for a c-40 you can pretty much have anything. since you don't race and appear to be pretty much a recreational rider I'd consider a TI bike over a CF one--maybe a custom made just for you.|
|re: Colnago CT1 vs C40||pmf1|
Apr 9, 2003 8:29 AM
|You should try out a carbon bike. They have a particular feel to them. Some people call it dead, others plush. I have a C-40 and a Kestrel 200 Sci. Both all carbon bikes. The ride on the two is similar. The C-40 feels a little more lively and is quite a bit lighter. C-40's are beautiful bikes. If you get one, go for a garish paint job. I ordered mine looking at a catalogue and thought they looked too busy and just got the OOF rendition. My wife got the LX-14. I was immediately jealous of her when we pulled the frames out of the box. They look better in real life. I'm not so sure about the HP B-Stay. I kinda like the regular B-Stay better.
I also have a titanium bike (1999 Litespeed Ultimate). This bike rides more like a steel bike. Its a little stiffer than the C-40, but not overly so IMO. The Litespeed is great for commuting and traveling because there is no paint to worry about. Of the three bikes I have, I feel like this is the one I can stomp on and really go fast. Then again maybe its all in my head and the result of a poorly programmed computer. I got a deal on the Litespeed ($1600 for frame and Look HSC2 fork) on a close-out. If I were going to drop $5000 on a ti bike, I'd look hard at a Serrota (but avoid those stupid, over-priced, over-rated Seven bikes).
Almost last, fit. Most people do not need a custom made bike. I don't and I doubt you do either. If you're really big, small or a woman (since most bikes are sized for men), then you might need a custom bike. If you're an average sized guy who is not dragging his knuckles on the ground, its not necessary.
Last, Colnago geometry. There are a number of "geometry experts" who will tell you that Colnagos have really short top tubes resulting in a radically different geometry that won't fit many people. This is simply not true. Would one of the world's most successful bike companies who has been building bikes for 40+ years use some strange geometry that doesn't fit people well? All my bikes are 56 cm. All have 11 cm stems. Of the three, I feel most stretched out on the Colnago and least stretched out on the Kestrel. So much for the short top tube theory.
|Why do you say this...||Fez|
Apr 9, 2003 9:15 AM
"...ti bike, I'd look hard at a Serrota (but avoid those stupid, over-priced, over-rated Seven bikes)."
Why do you say that about Seven? As a LS rider looking to get something different, I have considered both. It would appear the Legend and Axiom are comparably priced. You can get either painted or bare. You can get either std or custom. If anything, the Axiom sounds lighter and stiffer. Quality should be adequate on either, and I hear the ride is decent on both.
So what's your beef with Seven?
|Its just my opinion ...||pmf1|
Apr 9, 2003 9:24 AM
|but Seven has always been the ultimate snob poser bike to me. They foster this image of a bunch of granola eating artisans making bikes in a small little workshop one by one like the Keebler elves. People who are just too good for a lowly litespeed eat this up and pay a big premium for this custom work of art when the truth is that they probably don't need a custom bike in the first place. I haven't bothered looking at Sevens in some time (except when I ride by them on the bike path), but I could never understand how the Axiom, made of simple straight guaged 3/2.5 ti tubes could go for such a hefty price. There's just nothing special about it. Except that its made by Keebles elves I guess.
I'm sure they're fine bikes, I just don't like them.
Flame me all you want. Argue their merits until the wee hours of the night, but I won't change my mind.
|everyone (even susan sarandon) is entitled to an opinion||Fez|
Apr 9, 2003 9:44 AM
|The Axiom does use butted tubes. There is an economy model (oxymoron) that uses the cheaper straight gauge tubes.
Poser/snob bike? Maybe. But the same is true with Serotta (snobby fat old rich guys) and even Litespeed (not as rich posers who can't ride worth beans), but each in a different way.
Not even going to try to change your mind, but there's always the option of buying whatever titanium bike you choose and simply removing the decals. Can't do this with a painted poser bike.
I've removed most of the little decals on the top and seat tubes. One day I might remove the large Litespeed downtube decals as well. I'll probably get a lot less of those "nice bike" or how do you like your bike comments.
|do it do id remove the decals!!nm||the bull|
Apr 9, 2003 9:54 AM
|snob poseur bikes? You have C40, LS, Kestrel.................nm||Spunout|
Apr 9, 2003 9:48 AM
Apr 9, 2003 9:55 AM
|Hey, I sold the Motobecane, Fuji and Cannondale||pmf1|
Apr 9, 2003 10:50 AM
|I guess the bikes I have could be considered posers -- especially the C-40. I always considered Litespeed to be too passe, but bought one because I wanted a ti bike and saw an incredible deal on it ($1600 for frame and Look HSC2 fork). Its been a great riding bike. Kestrel is hardly a poser bike -- especially when I bought it 9 years ago and got laughed at by everyone for buying a "plastic bike". I've ridden the hell out of that bike and have been really pleased with it.|
|Its just my opinion ...||brian n|
Apr 9, 2003 6:30 PM
that was hilarious. i agree in the sense of the few people i've seen on sevens, most have been more into the image that i could tell. keebler elves indeed! i think i'll have a fudge shoppe cookie.
|As a ti fanatic I was quite surpised when...||the bull|
Apr 9, 2003 9:50 AM
|I heard you say seven is overated!You oviously dont know
sh!t about welds.The welds on my Litespeed look like sloppy stacked boogers compared to the welds on a seven that look like a neat stack of poker chips-each one perfect as it loops around joining the tubes in perfect harmony!
Seven in my opinion is one of the finest crafted ti frames in the world.I saw one of there fs mouintain frames the other day an I drooled all over the place!
|Though welds don't really mean much||ColnagoFE|
Apr 9, 2003 10:13 AM
|Just aesthetics. I could argue that all [unpainted] TI bikes looks like gunmetal grey battleships. Functional, yes...but not all that pretty. FWIW....For great welds look at the pre-Litespeed Merlins. The Litespeed ones may be just as good but I haven't seen one up close so I reserve judgement. The Merlin XL I had was flawless though if youre into that kind of thing.|
|Yes they were pretty.nm||the bull|
Apr 9, 2003 10:29 AM
|Welds. That's a good one.||pmf1|
Apr 9, 2003 10:21 AM
|Smooth welds mean absolutely nothing. Maybe the Elves at Seven make two passes like Merlin did/does. One could argue that the second pass weakens the titanium to a larger degree than a single weld.
The way a weld looks says nothing about its strength or integrity. Its purely aesthetic.
Perfect harmony? Sounds like you're well on your way to buying into their line.
|If money were no object I would go for the pretty welds!||the bull|
Apr 9, 2003 10:42 AM
|But it is thats why I am on a Litespeed.
I think there is a differance between overpriced and overrated.Lightspeeds are perhaps becoming overrated and overpriced.
I think that Sevens are not overrated but overpriced.
They deserve to be where they are today.I think those are the Fat chance guys-Right?
It used to piss me off to see fat rich guys on there custom Record 10 Serottas.But I would not say "hey those bikes are overrated"I would just admire the bike.
Now Treks- those are overrated but there a good price!
I think treks a good bike.I am tring to stop knocking them.I am tring not to piss everyone off here!I have learned that some of my opinions can just not be handled here!
|Ah, go ahead and knock Trek as well.||pmf1|
Apr 9, 2003 11:02 AM
|Who cares what people think? I know a few people who have had bad experiences with them. Plus, they're the Home Depot/MacDonalds/Starbucks Coffee/USA Today/Micro Soft of the bicycle industry. They have so many brand names its hard to keep track of all the fine Trek products out there.
And a good price? What does a 5900 cost? Its not a cheap bike.
|The lbs will put me on a 5200 for $2000 even.||the bull|
Apr 9, 2003 11:43 AM
|"It light"one guy said!
"just like the one lances rides"I always say when I want to complement someone that just bought one.
I was looking at one in the shop on saturday that was being sent back for warranty.It had separated at the top seat tube juction!I said real loud as I laughed HA I hate Trek.
One of the guys in there was Joked about not sayin it out loud cause he was trin to sell them in here!
Watch out dont say bad things about Treks
most guys that got them are new to cycling and they get thier feeling hurt easy.
I hear what your sayin And I agree with ya!
I still like seven but if I had one Id peel the stickers off and that would be pointless because thats what I was mostly payin for!Dont get me wrong I love my litespeed.And I think C 40s are the bomb I just dont want to wreck one in a race and be out 3 grand!
|Colnagos have a long TT.||Mariowannabe|
Apr 9, 2003 1:20 PM
|Your hunch about the Colnago geometry is correct. For example: a 56cm C40 has a 54cm ctc seat tube and a 55cm tt. The seat tube is 73.5 percent, which is a bit steeper than many. You'd think that might cause them to shorten the top tube, but no. And I really like Colnago's slack (72 percent for the 56cm) percent headtube. Makes for a really nice ride at high speed.
(I, too, have the OOF and kind of wish I had gotten one of the other color schemes. But, it is a belle machina.)
To answer the original post, I personally don't think you can go wrong with either a CT1 or C40. I think you'd find the rides pretty dificult to tell apart. Same geometry. CT1 is cheaper but may be more durable. C40 is lighter, but more fragile. For me it comes down to the wallet - if you're not too concerned with the budget, go C40 - you'll never look back and say, "if only".
|Trek OCLV 120 is the same feel as C-40.......||BIG RING|
Apr 9, 2003 8:58 AM
|minus the huge delta in price. Can't speak about the CT-1.
The OCLV 110 (5900) is much stiffer than either the C-40 or OCLV 120. Both the C-40 and OCLV 120 (5200/5500) are extremely comfortable and fairly responsive compared to the OCLV 110. OCLV 110 feels as stiff as any aluminum frame I've ridden without the road buzz........does that mean it has a wood feel to it???? Never quite understood that part of the analysis from fellow riders. I've had a Merlin road, Agilis and Extralight. Beautiful to look at and great feeling ride......not OCLV 120 however. Ti feels heavy and more importantly, less responsive, than carbon. Just my opinion.
|FOR THE LAST TIME...||Bonked|
Apr 9, 2003 9:46 AM
|C40s are no more expensive than Treks if you buy them from the right place. Check out www.maestro-uk.com and you can pick up a C40 w/ Record for less than list price on a 5900 and about the same as list for a 5500; just don't pay the totally inflated prices found at WCP! I bought my C40 from Mike and will buy my next bike from him without a second thought.
PS - I'm not knocking Treks...they are great bikes and I have ridden a steel Trek for the last 15 years. I just get tired of people talking about how $$$ Colnagos are and how $ Treks are!
Apr 9, 2003 10:32 AM
|I got my C-40 when I was in Italy for $2700 (frame, fork, stem) shipped. You can find the same deals on the web (or at least they were around last time I looked). I bought a Dura Ace kit and built the whole bike for around $4000.
I did the Litespeed for around $3000 (using a frame/fork i got on close out from Labicicletta.com for $1600).
The Kestrel I got for $1700 9 years ago by talking a LBS salesman down in Novemeber. Since then, I've replaced the Ultegra 600 it came with with DA.
You can find good deals on this stuff if you look around.
|Ive watched E-bay and its seems treks are overpriced or valued?||Swat Dawg|
Apr 9, 2003 1:20 PM
|In looking at E-Bay (which seems like a good indicator of what the open market will bear in terms of price) I have felt that Trek frames seem to consistently go for more than they should. When I see 2 and 3 year old frames selling for $800-1000, I think that it's crazy. I have inquired at my LBS about a 2002 5200 frame and fork and the owner said he'd give it to me for $800 brand new. I think this is a pretty good deal, I may be wrong, but I see everybody on E-Bay buying used frames for that much. Is $800 a good deal? Might as well ask. But anyhow, I never ridden one, and I currently ride a 2001 2300 that I got a size too big 56cm, because I had somebody else size it who was an idiot while I was at home in WA state. I think that I will be happy with the 5200 and think it should carry me for a long time without me having to upgrade. I too would love a Ti bike, as it would be great to leave road crap on my bike not having to worry about the finish, but I'm not there yet financially wise (still in college). I have no idea what a C-40, CT-1, or even the 5200 rides like, but I know I'll be happy on the new frame that fits better, and is lighter. I think we get too caught up in this frame over that frame, when it all personal preference. If I had the money, why not buy the seven custom to tweak the top tube 1 degree, and 1 cm, it would be cool to have a bike that was a little different, but the truth is most of us don't care too much about that 1 degree and 1 cm, or we flat out don't have the money to change it. So the poser that have seven's ride away, and the poor folks that have 1987 raleigh's but can roast me pedaling with one leg, I'll catch you one day, but really everybody here knows and can understand he statement, "Its not the bike, its the rider." I'm only 21 and maybe in my older age I'll care more about the snob, poser factor of some other guys bike, but I still look at anybody on a colnago and am blown away at their beauty. I'm too lazy with bike care to own own one, but I will admire the fat guys taste nonetheless. Sorry this is a little bit long, but I see these arguments all the time on here, and I think we can all lose sight of the true youthful pleasure bikes allow us to capture whatever our age. So if a serotta helps you regain your youthful pleasure great, or if you want the old raleigh go for it, I'll ride with either of you if your a nice guy. My $.02
Swat Dawg '04
P.S. Sorry I just got out of philosophy class and I have intrinsic values and such on the mind.
|Yes, $800 Trek OCLV frame is a good deal. n/m||fracisco|
Apr 9, 2003 2:10 PM
|FWIW, Look at Dean or Samson, I think both...........||Juanmoretime|
Apr 9, 2003 12:35 PM
|are excellent values in titanium. My main ride is a Vortex although I've always salivated over Deans. You could get a El Diente, custom if you should care to, for a hand full of change over $1,000. One of my riding partners rides an El Diente anf loves it. One word of caution, should you go that route be prepared to wait, right Gregory?|
|re: Colnago Ovalmaster vs C40||B2|
Apr 9, 2003 5:50 PM
|Never ridden a CT-1, but I've owned an Ovalmaster in the past and now own a C40. The ride difference is like night and day, but then again the Ovalmaster is built like a tank.
I suspect the differences between the C40 and CT-1 are more suttle.