|What's the relationship b/w Waterford and Gunnar Bikes?||Fez|
Apr 4, 2003 11:48 AM
|Built in the same factory and by the same craftspeople?
Just different tubing and price points?
|re: What's the relationship b/w Waterford and Gunnar Bikes?||bigdave|
Apr 4, 2003 12:03 PM
|I think it's the same factory... not sure on that one.
Definite differences: tubing, welded joints versus lugged and more of price-point finish.
But I think the road bikes have the same geometry, so it's not a bad budget bike at all.
Apr 4, 2003 12:41 PM
|Same materials and tubing from what I can tell. I read both websites pretty carefully and can't tell that there is any difference. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!
Waterfords have more attention to detail, custom paint/finish, custom sizing (costs extra for Gunnar), lugged, etc.
Waterfords are built to be the classic frame you'll want for twenty years. The Gunnar gives the same quality w/ less options.
I would be interested to hear from someone who has ridden an identical bike on both frames. A "blindfolded" test as it would be! I doubt there is a difference you can feel during the ride unless that difference is the result of customization of the frame's geometry.
|In Gunnar's early days...||Nater|
Apr 4, 2003 1:05 PM
|there were more differences between the brands. Although, they have always been built in the same factories by the same people. Gunnar just offered fewer options in sizing and color. The lines between the brands are blurring more and more.
Waterford were originally lugged or fillet brazed (I think) while Gunnars were TIG welded. There are TIG welded Waterfords available for 2003 though.
Waterfords are all custom. Originally Gunnar was all stock sizes. Custom is now an option with Gunnar.
In my opinion, the labels are getting closer and closer each year and Gunnar is a good choice for "budget" high-end steel bike. I know a number of people that ride Gunnars, including the Roadie, the Rock Hound and the Ruffian (SS). They're all very happy with them.
|re: What's the relationship b/w Waterford and Gunnar Bikes?||MR_GRUMPY|
Apr 4, 2003 2:56 PM
|Yes, same factory, same workers, almost the same tubesets. The Gunnar roadie frame goes for $650. The Waterford R14 model goes for $1300. Beside being custom, The R14 has a seat lug with a built in clamp. Almost everything else is the same except the Gunnar comes standard with rear dropout eyelets in case you want to put on fenders.
If you can fit on a stock Gunnar, you can save a whole crapload of money. If not, the options add up quickly. For example, if you need custom geometry and you want custon paint, the price jumps to $1200. You'd be better off with the Waterford R14. Gunnar's "colors of the month" are just as good as the Waterford's standard colors.
I bought mine last fall when the price was still $600. For $30 extra I had my name put on the top tube, instead of that stupid "Roadie" decal.
|re: What's the relationship b/w Waterford and Gunnar Bikes?||Heron Todd|
Apr 5, 2003 8:48 AM
|>Yes, same factory, same workers, almost the same tubesets. The Gunnar roadie frame goes for $650. The Waterford R14 model goes for $1300.
"Almost the same tubesets" is a key difference. While the tubing in both is 853, the shapes and sizes used are different. For example, the seat tube on the R14 is flared at the bottom bracket to increase stiffness. The R14 also includes stainless dropouts.
The Gunnars have always used a more basic 853 tubeset than the Waterfords. The R14 is a TIG-welded Waterford. So, it has all the tubing features, fancier paint, SS dropouts, etc. of the lugged frames in addition to being built-to-order.
If you take a Roadie at $650 and add $350 for custom geometry plus $150 for Waterford paint job, you are at $1150 and still don't have the stainless dropouts and custom tubing of the R14.
Having said all that, let me say that the Gunnars are an outstanding value. If you don't need the custom geometry, they are quite a bike. However, a Waterford, even TIG-welded, is something special
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