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What's the deal with this quote by Lance Armstrong?(67 posts)

What's the deal with this quote by Lance Armstrong?Helduser
Mar 26, 2003 1:33 PM
Lance's quote:

``I don't represent one side or the other, but I do represent a sponsor'' of the war, the Texan added.

``I'm an athlete and that's all,'' he said.

He's from Texas right? He's an American right? Therefore by default he would be representing good ol' USA. Was he mis-quoted or something? Or, is he just sucking up to the French prior to his demolishing their race on their own turf this July. What gives? I hope he'll be carrying the United States flag proudly as he's done for the last four years after demolishing his rivals. Maybe all that training overseas is getting to him. Maybe it's the altitude.
you guys are never f-cking happy. Whenever a celebritybill
Mar 26, 2003 1:40 PM
expresses an opinion, there is all manner of whining about who the hell does [celebrity who disagrees with said whiner] think [celebrity who disagrees with said whiner] is? When a celebrity declines to express an opinion, you all are EQUALLY unhappy.
Don't mean to pick on you in particular, Helduser, because I don't know how or if you ever have whined before about this or, in fact, anything at all before.
But, give the guy a break. He said what he wants to say -- period, end of story.
He doesn't really represent the US...TJeanloz
Mar 26, 2003 1:40 PM
The Tour is not a race ridden in national colors, like the Olympics or World Championships; except of course that his chief sponsor does happen to be a branch of the Government. That said, I don't think that it's reasonable for every American worldwide to be a "representative" of every American policy. At the end of the day, he's just a bike rider.
Geez, I thought there was free speech, even in TexasSpunout
Mar 26, 2003 1:42 PM
But his sponsor is a US Government agency.

Bah! Funny thing is, he is an athlete. And that is all.
yeah right! the Dixie Chicks are from Texas, too nmmohair_chair
Mar 26, 2003 2:14 PM
They're entitled to their opinion.Dave Hickey
Mar 26, 2003 2:32 PM
The Dixie Chicks can say anything they want. As consumers, we can choose to buy their CD's. She's free to say whatever she wants but when a large part of your fan(customer) base is southern conservative, It's not smart public relations(business decision).
and maybe it will bring in a different set of fanslaffeaux
Mar 26, 2003 3:28 PM
I'm more apt to buy one of their albums now.
Could be a new foothold for Country music in Old Europe? nmStampertje
Mar 27, 2003 1:21 AM
Sounds like he is doing the smart thing...Quack
Mar 26, 2003 1:44 PM
He is not taking sides or giving his opinion on right or wrong concerning the war. He just happens to be paid by people that are in favor of the war effort. He just races. That's it. I don't think it is a French suck up. He's avoiding saying that he backs or doesn't back the war effort.

Larry
Only read between the quotes...biknben
Mar 26, 2003 1:45 PM
I always love how interviewers can misrepresent and take things out of context. Look at the quotation marks in that statement. Lance says he represents a sponsor, not a sponsor of the war.

Lance only actually said what is between the quotes. Everything else is garbage in my opinion. That, which is in the quotes, seems fine to me.

IMO, Lance has always displayed great pride to an American and a Texan. The only suckin up he's doing is through a straw.
He's avoiding a quagmire...PdxMark
Mar 26, 2003 1:47 PM
He's keeping his public focus on cycling (his sponsors), rather than opining on a conflict he has no need to take a public stand on.

He's screwed by whatever he says publicly about the war. Domestically he could get the Dixie Chick shut-out if he were against the war (unlikely, I suppose), and in France, where he earns his living, he would be subject to public derision (and fears of worse) if he expressed support for the war.

He'd be better off giving interviews on his relationship issues with Kristin than to say anything about the war.
He's avoiding a quagmire...Helduser
Mar 26, 2003 1:58 PM
Yeah.. I guess with all of the publicity he gets he would have had to make some sort of statement about it eventually. It was probably very smart to give the PC response that he gave. He's pretty good at diffusing situations and keeping from inflaming his rivals.
My interp..russw19
Mar 26, 2003 2:04 PM
I would read that as him saying that he is not going to voice his opinion one way or the other being that he is paid by sponsor's dollars and voicing an opinion that may fly in the face of his sponsors is not a good thing for a sponsored athlete to do. He's not a politician, he's a damn cyclist. Why should I or anyone else care about his world views? I don't give 2 craps, I just want to see him win a 5th Tour. And I am willing to bet that he is trying to tell you the same thing. Lance knows you and I don't care what his political views are.... he's a cyclist, he's paid to ride a bike really fast. That's it.

But being a celebrity, everyone always wants him to do and say the right things and be this great role model. I don't want Lance to raise me damn kids, so I don't care what the heck he thinks of the war.

I do understand him not wanting to make himself a target by speaking out though. He is a foriegner in most of the places he applies his trade, and he is not a well protected individual for as high profile an athlete as he is. Just think if he told the French media he thought the French were stupid for oppossing the US, some French guy on the road up Alpe d' Huez would biach-slap him right off that OCLV. Then what would Lance do?
Are you nuts?Matno
Mar 26, 2003 2:13 PM
"I just want to see him win a 5th Tour."

What about a 6th tour?!!! That's what I want to see. Then I'll know that it will be at least 7 years before anybody can break his record...

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with you. He is an athlete and should focus on that. I'd hate to see what might happen if he said the same things about the French that Jay Leno does... :^) On the other hand, whether we like it or not, EVERY American abroad (and a lot here) affect the world's perception of us (and thus we can all be "ambassadors" to some degree). Celebrities even more so. I'm one who is not too pleased with the "ugly American" image we seem to have in some places, though in the vast majority of places I've been, people seem to love us. For the most part, we are pretty nice people... :^)
Are you nuts?<- just thought we were talkin this year....russw19
Mar 26, 2003 2:54 PM
Something to keep in mind about the "Ugly American" image is that many people around the world don't have a problem with Americans as people, but with our government. The US government has a very long standing history of meddling with other countries foriegn policies. We love to play "World Policeman" and get involved where we shouldn't. And the world perception is that when we do get involved we always list our main reason for doing so as to "protect freedom and democracy" and that goes over very well with other Americans. The problem is that other countries have a right to autonomy and it looks very hypocritical for our government to trample another country's rights to autonomy for our values of freedom and democracy. It's a huge oxymoronic double edged sword. That is how much of the Middle East views us. They often feel that we come into their country to push our values of freedom on them, not understanding how we can not see that by our own definition of freedom, they are free to stick to the long standing traditions of their country. We impose our morals and values as a nation upon others while similtaneously speaking of freedom. It doesn't jive with some.

I was taught to be a very tolerant person. That doesn't mean that I think people should be oppressive and unjust. Just because another country has different values and mores than our own doesn't make it right for us to trample their rights to autonomy any more than it gives them the right to continue to oppress. It's a hard and thin line to walk, but our government, in its foriegn policy, often steps over the line without seeing the other side's point of view on it.

I am gonna shut up now, as no one here cares about my political point of view anymore than I care about Lance's.

Russ
Well, I couldn't agree more.Matno
Mar 26, 2003 4:07 PM
American foreign policy is awful. If we would just leave other countries alone, I think there would be far fewer problems worldwide, but that's just my opinion. Now, back to the BIKE forum...
World policeman...MrDan
Mar 27, 2003 11:04 AM
Yes Russ - and every other nation wants their turn enforcing their will don't they. We happen to be on top, you've got to be kidding youself if any other nation were in place of the US., they would be using their power everywhere too.... Human nature knows no boundaries/borders.
World policeman...russw19
Mar 27, 2003 5:07 PM
Don't get me wrong Dan, I am not saying what we are doing is right or wrong... I was soley speaking to the world perception of how America is viewed in terms of it's "ideals of freedom" and how that tends to inversly relate to every other country with a poor economy's autonomy. You don't have to go very far to find a country that feels this way either. The US shares a physical border with 2 nations that have a majority of its citizens that feel this way.

How is it that I am the one kidding myself about this issue? History has shown this pattern to be true, and yes we are on top right now, so it stands to reason that we act in accordance with the well established tradition of trying to take over the world for our benefit with the forceful imposition of our national will upon every other country on the planet where we can get away with it.

Russ
I agree, not meant to bash...MrDan
Mar 28, 2003 12:37 PM
but the proverbs ring true...

1) It's lonely at the top
2) Be nice on your way up... you're going to see the same
people on the way down...
I don't see anything wrong with it. I'd likely do the same nmDougSloan
Mar 26, 2003 2:02 PM
Who gave you the idea that Texas is part of the United States?NASA Noddler
Mar 26, 2003 2:03 PM
Texas: apparently the only state that reserved the right...PdxMark
Mar 26, 2003 2:12 PM
to leave the union, or so I was told several times while living there for a few months. Always wondered why they didn't...
Texas: apparently the only state that reserved the right...Tower
Mar 26, 2003 2:21 PM
I've always heard that Texas was the only state that can fly it's state flag the same height as the US flag because Texas was once it's own country.
Urban myth...Dave Hickey
Mar 26, 2003 2:23 PM
The truth is ANY state can fly it's flag the same height as the US flag.
Only if on separate staffs. Same staff, US flag is always higherrussw19
Mar 26, 2003 3:33 PM
I don't think you would go to jail over it, but the US flag should ALWAYS be flown above a state flag. It should always be hoisted first, and lowered last. It should always be to the right of all other flags in parades. That is if they are on the same staff. Otherwise, if on separate staffs, they can be at level height, but the US flag must be raised first, and lowered last.

There are actually a whole lot of rules regarding flags. And before anyone says who cares, think about this. Your flag is your country's greatest symbol. It is universally recognized as meaning your country. People salute it and Veterans and Head's of State are buried under it. It should mean something. And if it does mean something, then it should be respected. If you are going to properly respect the flag, follow the rules of etiquette for your flag.

You can find them here....
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

There are some interesting points on that site.

Russ
Only if on separate staffs. Same staff, US flag is always higherHelduser
Mar 26, 2003 5:49 PM
I've been pledging allegiance to the United States of America ever since kindergarten. Well said.
They tried once. It was called the Civil War.teamsloppy
Mar 26, 2003 2:55 PM
Texas tried to leave the Union once.It was called the Civil War.
not exactlymohair_chair
Mar 26, 2003 3:18 PM
When Texas was admitted to the union, Congress allowed the condition and guarantee that "New States, of convenient size, not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas, and having sufficient population, may hereafter, by consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution."

In other words, Texas could split itself up into five states if it wanted to. Texas never tried, so who knows if it was legal. Then Texas dropped out of the union and joined the CSA, and was later readmitted after the Civil War. The terms of readmission likely trump the original terms of admission, so I doubt Texas has this power anymore.
re: What's the deal with this quote by Lance Armstrong?The Human G-Nome
Mar 26, 2003 2:04 PM
you're from the same crowd that gets pissed when some hollywood celebrity bashes the war effort because "they're just actors. what do they know about international politics?" same thing here. who the hell cares what Lance thinks about the war? his opinion means nothing more then any other american's opinion. try caring about those who are actually well informed on the issues rather then caring about a person's opinion just because he/she happens to be famous.
Whats the deal with you worried about...the bull
Mar 21, 2003 2:48 PM
Lance's opinion on the war.I bet you you one of those sorry ass motherfu(kers that rides around on a trek just cause Lance has one and now that he does not have a opinion on a war your all upset cause hes not the Capitian America you thought he was!He is a cyclist and a athlete (in the public eye)and that should be all!Stop tring to make this man into the super hero that hs is not.
Next thing he'll probably do is...No_sprint
Mar 26, 2003 2:09 PM
grow a mullet and disguise himself as Laurant Brochard. :)
Let's try to be understanding of his situationKeeponTrekkin
Mar 26, 2003 2:11 PM
If I were a sponsoring organization (and LA has several), I'd make sure my highly compensated star kept his mouth shut about issues outside the area of his sponsorship. E.g. talk only about bikes, the race, etc. It's also smart for him. Why do anything to make the race into something which could only be detrimental to him and his effort?
It is tough being an American anywhere in the world now.Maartin
Mar 26, 2003 2:12 PM
And to be an American beating the French on home turf is going to be impossible. I am afraid Lance will need to withdraw. Not his fault but this is a very unpopular war in Europe and he is a Texan American.
thats ridiculous maartin. he wont withdraw and shouldn't.curtybirdychopper
Mar 26, 2003 2:25 PM
anyone targeting lance or any other individual american b/c they disagree with the war is ignorant deserves to be drug along with the troops as they march on baghdad.

not to mention, the notion of freedom fries and other such creative hill billy phrases is ridiculous and equally ignorant.
I hope you are right.Maartin
Mar 27, 2003 7:34 AM
I work with the French and I have never seen them so anti-American.
Do like most Americans traveling in Europe...52-16SS
Mar 26, 2003 2:32 PM
Say you're a Canadian – They'll treat you a lot better {8^)
It is tough being an American anywhere in the world now.Helduser
Mar 26, 2003 5:40 PM
He can't drop out. I feel honored everytime my fellow American races overseas (especially in the Tour De France). I have great pride and admiration for what he does. I also have great respect for the international team members around him. I know there's not much that can keep him for going for number 5. It would take something pretty drastic like France no longer allowing American's in their country to keep him away. I don't believe he would even consider withdrawing.
who f'in cares? there are 180+ other riders in the Tour tooclimbo
Mar 26, 2003 2:32 PM
Lance, Lance, Lance, who cares what he says !?!?!!??!!! He's a bike rider.
Where have you been for the past 4 years?laffeaux
Mar 26, 2003 3:32 PM
Was Eddy Merckx just a bike rider too?
Where have you been for the past 4 years?climbo
Mar 26, 2003 5:44 PM
yes. but what does Eddy have to do with the current Lance/War situation?
my point waslaffeaux
Mar 27, 2003 4:14 PM
Lance is not "just another rider." Theere is a lot of focus on him. More focus than any rider has had in a very long time.
Okay, raise your hand if you think....Charlie Amerique
Mar 26, 2003 2:36 PM
...that the opinion of one person, even Lance Armstrong, Rush Limbaugh or Donald Duck would sway you into changing your opinion of Iraq War II.

So Lance says what most of us already know: He, as a private citizen, does not have the insights, information or training/exerience to make a resonable judgement as to the validity of the war effort.
Do any of us?
yes, its not difficult to judge the validity of the war.curtybirdychopper
Mar 26, 2003 2:49 PM
in this case, people have not judged the validity on our own, but by UN actions and the actions of other nations and by evidence (lack thereof) presented by shrubco., which have all have a political bias based on their own financial stake in the outcome of the war.

when countries base their view of the validity of the war on their economic stake, something is wrong. war is not something to be started for economic reasons as this one has.
the length of this post should explain everythingshamelessgearwhore
Mar 26, 2003 2:56 PM
He doesn't even give an opinion and this is how much it stirred things up. If he said the slightest thing one way or the other it would be a big mistake. Look at all the athletes that can't keep their mouth shut and where it gets them.
In my OPINIONCharlie Amerique
Mar 26, 2003 3:04 PM
That is OPINION only, I agree with you. I find the links to Halliburton, Enron, Iraq's contracts with France, Germany and Russia to be too damn coincidental. Add to that the Renquest(I)/Bush,(Jeb)/Renquest(W)/Bush(W) fiasco and I don't see a whole lot of "intergrity" being restored to the White House.

Add to that my beign an ex-patriot livign in Canada now and seeign the trade abuses pushed off on Canada by the U.S. and it's hard to see much good coming of this present administration.

I just hope the estimates of 17,000 dead is way off target.
yes, its not difficult to judge the validity of the war.Helduser
Mar 26, 2003 5:44 PM
Boy... You're really looking to open this topic up a bit. Although it appears to be starting to sway away from cycling.
Can anyone say HALLIBURTON??? nmserbski
Mar 26, 2003 9:31 PM
or Bechtel; I almost went to work for them...nmSpunout
Mar 27, 2003 5:07 AM
here's the storyDougSloan
Mar 26, 2003 2:51 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-armstrong-iraq&prov=ap&type=lgns
The man has every right...Fredrico
Mar 27, 2003 11:23 AM
to be somewhat anxious about his and his team's safety in this year's Tour. Partisanship is bad enough, like the Italian(?) who hit Eddy Merckx on his back, permanently handicapping him for the rest of his career. But how easy would it be for some disgruntled North African to lob a hand grenade onto the course? If I were Lance, I'd be doing some hard thinking about even racing the Tour this year.
Why did you MISQUOTE him?Spoiler
Mar 26, 2003 2:57 PM
From cycling news.com
"People must make a clear distinction between sport and politics. I'd like it if cycling fans could make that distinction. I don't represent one side or the other, but I do represent a SPONSOR."

Where did you get the ""....sponsor" of the war"? Did you add that yourself?

This makes a big difference. In his REAL quote, he's saying he represents a sponsor, not a country nor the sponsor's country. Just like David Millar represents Cofidis, not France, not Scotland.
As a cyclist, he is under contract to race against anyone except other USPS members. He can race against other Americans, and against other American teams.
Your arguements shows how you fail to understand international professional bike racing on even on it's basic level. Ekimov is Russian. Does that mean he's representing Russia, not the USPS?
Correction, the Spanish media misquoted him, not you.Spoiler
Mar 26, 2003 3:07 PM
The Spanish media added the ...sponsor" OF THE WAR part. Sorry for accusing you. My mistake. We can see how adding just three words to the end of the quote can completely change the meaning.
However, arguements that he represents US is still a case of misunderstanding the pretext of professional cycling.
other sources had it that way, too; see my post above nmDougSloan
Mar 26, 2003 3:07 PM
Lance should learn from Steve Nash!Frith
Mar 26, 2003 3:23 PM
Look at the sort of situation Nash has gotten himself into by expressing his opinion in a land where "Everyone's entitled to my opinion". He even has that washed up sailor-boy David Robinson outraged by his seemingly blatant dismissal of the fact that freedom of speech is only held true when it's convenient. I say if they don't like him down there in good ol' Texas, he can come play for the Raptors and live in the land where anyone can say whatever they want as long as they say it quietly.
As for Lance he's caught between a texan rock and a french hard place and if you ask me he's been pretty mindful of that fact. His quotes have all been diplomatic and sensible. If he does have an opinion on the matter, which I suspect he does, then he'll do good to keep it to himself and stick to discussions on the finer points of 10 speed dura ace.
Ride for 5 Lance!
Lance should learn from Steve Nash!Frith
Mar 26, 2003 3:47 PM
Look at the sort of situation Nash has gotten himself into by expressing his opinion in a land where "Everyone's entitled to my opinion". He even has that washed up sailor-boy David Robinson outraged by his seemingly blatant dismissal of the fact that freedom of speech is only held true when it's convenient. I say if they don't like him down there in good ol' Texas, he can come play for the Raptors and live in the land where anyone can say whatever they want as long as they say it quietly.
As for Lance he's caught between a texan rock and a french hard place and if you ask me he's been pretty mindful of that fact. His quotes have all been diplomatic and sensible. If he does have an opinion on the matter, which I suspect he does, then he'll do good to keep it to himself and stick to discussions on the finer points of 10 speed dura ace.
Ride for 5 Lance!
Steve Nash and his opinion - Who Cares?Fez
Mar 26, 2003 5:31 PM
A haircut should be a higher priority for him than voicing his opinion. Why is his any more important than anyone else's?

First of all, we care who he is because he plays good basketball for a good team, not for any of his opinions.

Second of all, isn't he Canadian?
you're right.Frith
Mar 26, 2003 6:26 PM
who does care?...well to start all of those lonestar waving bushites in texas.
Secondly, yeah he's Canadian and his opinion means nothing just like the rest of the WORLD OUTSIDE AMERICA. Sort of points at a greater underlying problem doesn't it?
I suppose you're right though does it matter what any athlete thinks about the war in Iraq? Yes but not more than you or I. I was merely pointing out that Lance is smart not to speak his views at this point. If you're living in Texas and your of the silent minority then you better keep your mouth shut, afterall it seems freedom of speech is an idealistic pipedream.
re: What's the deal with this quote by Lance Armstrong?Xoc
Mar 26, 2003 5:14 PM
This just furthers my opinion that Lance Armstrong is the f-cking man.

Finally...a celebrity that doesn't think his status gives him the right to push his views on people.

GO LANCE GO!!!
re: What's the deal with this quote by Lance Armstrong?Leroy
Mar 26, 2003 5:34 PM
well said, brother! Go, big Tex!!
re: What's the deal with this quote by Lance Armstrong?russw19
Mar 26, 2003 11:09 PM
By the way, yall, Lance has voiced his opinion about the war and G.W. Bush. Just not in the interview referrenced above.

Lance has said in public that Bush is a friend his. He has met him on numerous occasions and Bush called him after he won the Tour last year while he was still in Paris.

Lance has also said that he favours diplomacy over war. He doesn't believe in killing, and says that is why he's glad he's not Bush. He said he is thankful he isn't the one who has to make the decisions Bush has to make, and although he doesn't agree with Bush on this issue, he still respects him for having to do a jub much harder than his. All this was said in an interview with CNN.

That's the sign of a true role model. He expressed his opinion rationally and intellegently without trying to push it on anyone. Even though his is a dissenting opinion of the President, he was still supportive of his country's elected leader.

I am in the same boat. I don't fully agree with Bush, but I am also very very happy I don't have to, or get to, make that call. That has to be a tough one to sleep on at night, no matter what you think of Bush.

Respectfully to all of your opinions,
Russ
Where is this from?PseuZQ
Mar 26, 2003 6:18 PM
There is a huge HUGE difference in meaning if the *reporter* added "of the war."

The quote by itself makes perfect sense. Adding the "of the war" part, to make it appear as though LA said "I represent a sponsor of the war" (USPS) versus "I represent a sponsor (Trek, Nike)leads me to believe this quote was taken out of context.

I'm interested in this from a PR point of view, not really a political one.
Associated Press out of MadridSpoiler
Mar 26, 2003 9:36 PM
As Doug provided the link
http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-armstrong-iraq&prov=ap&type=lgns

I see no reason for adding "of the war."
The entire quote was
"I don't represent one side or the other, but I do represent a sponsor."

Usually, journalist insert a phrase inside or at the end of a quote for clarification, but when they do it, they use parenthesis, like this-
"...but I do represent a sponsor (of the war)"

It would only make sense if Armstrong had said,
"I don't represent one side or the other, but I do represent ITS (the war) sponsor."
What would you have said?dasho
Mar 26, 2003 6:34 PM
Do you think he should come out and say he is for the war on Iraq? Put yourself in his place for a moment. He will be riding (in Europe) hundreds of miles competitively in front of thousands of foreigners who will be within touching distance of him and no real protection. Any nut or terrorist could easily harm him especially with all the anti-American sentiments from over the pond. Just competing in the tour this year will take an incredible amount of courage in itself in my opinion.
What would you have said?russw19
Mar 26, 2003 11:12 PM
I just got typing it above, so I won't type it all out again, but Lance is on record in an interview with CNN saying he is for diplomacy. I will see if I can dig up a transcript of the interview.

Russ
What he said....russw19
Mar 26, 2003 11:25 PM
Here's one on ESPN's website from before the war started...
http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2003/0130/1501203.html

and off his own website.... I like what he says about athletes just being athletes, not politicians....

"Did you have any problems with the Spanish / Euro media? We read a few interviews you did that seemed pretty upbeat and focused mainly on cycling.
- No, no real problems at all. The only slight problem is that I was doing media stuff every night and that gets stressful. It's funny, you'll have a guy that just stands around and expects a 20 minute interview and will wait till he gets it. On the other hand you have other media outlets who call Jogi - our press manager - and schedule stuff weeks in advance. With the demand these days these are the ones I do and not the others. There's just not enough time in the day for every one of them.
I got lots of war questions which are making me more and more uncomfortable. Their position is "Well, you're the President's friend, so what can you tell us?.." I suppose at the end of the day athletes should be athletes and not diplomats or politicians. While I've told them I hope we can avoid war (who doesn't want to??), know this: I support the President and our troops 100%."

I think that says a lot about the man's character, and anyone who thinks otherwise can flame away. But I respect what he is saying here.

Russ
Lance has got gutscrankman
Mar 27, 2003 8:36 AM
As a proud and native Texan, Lance displayed some courage in expressing a middle of the road comment.

Many folks around here (I'm from Texas) will be happy to liberate your teeth from you if you show the slightest hesitancy in supporting the administration's policy for preemptive war and the belief that we're there to give the people of Iraq rights such as the freedom of speech. Go figure.

(Ironically, these are the same folks who thought it was their patriotic duty three years ago to openly dissent from the policies of the past administration).

Go Lance and US Postal!
Lance has got gutsemptyhanded
Mar 27, 2003 10:34 AM
Yah, but Lance lives in Austin, so he's safe from the rest of Texas. :-)

It's a great cycling town where you'll see many cars with both "Give Bikes the Right" and "George Bush is a Punk Ass Chump" bumperstickers.