|Can any road groupo be installed on any current road frame?||Kristin|
Mar 20, 2003 7:06 AM
|I'm just curious, can a person put any group on any bike as long as its road bike components and a road frame?|
|not aware of any reason it would not work||DougSloan|
Mar 20, 2003 7:11 AM
|The only things you have to get right are wheel size, rear hub width, bottom bracket threads, headset size and type, stem, and seatpost diameter and length. I think the major groups have options for nearly all these things, except maybe headsets.
It would have to be a really strange frame for a major group not to work.
|Yeah, like Doug said||Fez|
Mar 20, 2003 7:30 AM
|If the frame is road w/ 700c wheels and not touring or cyclocross, then yes.
Doug mentioned most of them. I might add the front derailleur mounting, but there almost always is an adapter to make it work for your frame. Also, many modern frames no longer have downtube shifter mounts, but not an issue for most folks.
If you wanted a complete matching group, keep in mind Shimano does not make threadless headsets and the seatposts are avail in limited diameters. That and there are plenty of better choices outside of the grouppo anyway.
|Hmmm. Now if I were considering getting a touring frame||Kristin|
Mar 20, 2003 8:06 AM
|Which would be easier. To move my Veloce onto the touring frame or to buy a completed tourer? (I haven't made any decisions about buying a new frame. I'm just thinking ahead.)|
|Hmmm. Now if I were considering getting a touring frame||Rusty Coggs|
Mar 20, 2003 8:33 AM
|Many touring frames have 135mm rear dropout spacing.Your road rear wheel is 130.Road wheels often aren't up to heavy touring. Road gearing is often not the best bet for loaded touring.Touring bikes often come with a mix of road and mtb chainrings/dreilers/cassettes to get low gearing. You need to decide just what kind of touring you are going to be doing,decide on, or get imput on gearing and components, and go from there.|
|It's always easier to buy an already assembled bike.||Spoke Wrench|
Mar 20, 2003 8:35 AM
|I think that it's always way more fun to build it up myself. In your case, since you have a good donor bike, it will probably be cheaper too.
Either way be careful. You sound to me like you're on the way to developing the kind of bicycle tinkering addiction as some of the other board regulars. "Hi. My name's Spoke and I'm a compulsive bicycle tinkerer."
Mar 20, 2003 8:36 AM
|This can be more expensive than you think. If you pay a shop, it will usually cost a minimum of $75 to move everything over. But often times every component will not transfer over, resulting in additional expense. And often times a complete bike has built in savings aside from the labor. Here are some issues that may or may not apply to you:
1) Old frame has clearance for triple, new frame does not.
2) Seatpost and headtube/headset/fork size are different.
3) Bottom bracket threading and size are different.
4) Front deraill will need a different clamp.
5) Geometry is rarely the same, so count on buying a new stem
6) Touring bikes may require different style brakes/rims etc.
|Unless you have an absolute keeper,||Fez|
Mar 20, 2003 8:39 AM
|Buy exactly what you want for a new bike, sell everything you have that doesn't work on ebay or the classifieds.
Otherwise you will become a compulsive bike tinkerer.
|And just what exactly is wrong with that? nm||Kristin|
Mar 20, 2003 8:49 AM
|nothing, but some of us have to answer to a higher authority||Fez|
Mar 20, 2003 9:15 AM
|The wife gets a little angry when the bikes and bike parts start to multiply and take over the house.
Of course its a one way street, because I don't say anything when her closets are bulging with clothes and she needs a new jewelry box because the current one is at full capacity.
|Boy oh boy. Someone is gonna <i>LOVE</i> me!||Kristin|
Mar 20, 2003 9:44 AM
|I donated some clothes to make room for bike/hiking gear in my closet. (With 600 SF, I'm forced to choose.) My best jewelry is a $10 toe ring I bought last summer--I'm not even sure where it is right now. Jewelry boxes are ugly and waiste space. Besides, just one little diamond could be converted into any of the following:
*New frame from GHV
*Workstand and a whole box of Park tools
*A grand pair of Merrills and an internal frame pack
*A set of paniers, a cart (for the back of the bike--what are those called?), and an REI clipper
*A nice, long bike ride (days) over some big hills
*A purebred Wermeraner named Fred who will only wear the most stylish jersey's and lives for long walks on the beach with his owner
(Now I will accept ONE diamond in exchange for someones eternal love; but otherwise, I don't get the whole jewelry thing.)
|Off topic rant about diamonds...||Fez|
Mar 20, 2003 10:10 AM
|My wife and I never really believed in diamonds. Not that they aren't pretty, but because they are kind of a dirty bizness. Where do I begin, attempts by debeers to control supply (they aren't the least bit rare) to the stones being used as currency for weapons in the the revolts and violence down in Africa. And the very unhumanitarian treatment of the slave laborers they have working in the diamond mines.
Its not pretty, nothing like the elegant ads debeers has in our country about how a diamond is forever.
So we kind of look at diamonds like Phoebe on Friends looked at a fur coat. She loved the look and feel of it and really coveted one, even though lots of animals had to be slaughtered for it.
We just got matching watches instead to "show our eternal love." And unlike diamonds, where women are always looking and comparing them, no one ever looks at our watches. To everyone else, they think Fez is too cheap to buy his wife a diamond (or maybe they think Fez is riding it in the form of his shiny new bike). But we don't really care...
|Off topic rant about diamonds...||Juanmoretime|
Mar 20, 2003 10:22 AM
|Don't you have a double diamond anyway?|
Mar 20, 2003 10:30 AM
|For much the same reasons, I forbade my SO to purchase an engagement ring when he proposed at Xmas. Especially since my family gave me an heirloom diamond ring of my grandmother's that could theoretically serve, were I to ever wear it. It lives in a safe deposit box because the stone is too damn big and gaudy for me to ever want to wear, plus I'm extremely not comfortable with the fact that Grandpa bought it in Switzerland post WWII (bad karma).
My SO wants to get me a new Record grouppo instead, because as we all know, Campag really IS forever. Now, what to hang it on...
|Thats a nice slogan - CAMPY is forever...||Fez|
Mar 20, 2003 10:35 AM
|Although I am not judgmental of those who do buy diamonds and buy into the Debeers marketing hype, I get the feeling that this is the minority opinion.|
|So where did you get all this info?||Kristin|
Mar 20, 2003 10:48 AM
|I've never heard a thing about the evil diamond empire before. Now you've peaked my curiosity.|
|So where did you get all this info?||purplepaul|
Mar 20, 2003 11:01 AM
|I took a diamond gradiing course a number of years ago and was shocked to learn that they aren't in the least bit rare (just the very, very large internally flawless have any claim to that), and that deBeers has vaults full of them. They didn't try to control the diamond market, they DO control it. In the late 70's, Russia tried to break their back by flooding the market with cheap, tiny stones. DeBeers responded by designing sports rings for the masses that kept the price from plummeting. Yes, deBeers took on Russia and won.
Diamonds are a very dirty business. Slave labor mines them, corrupt governments are empowered by them, people are killed over them. All for an inherently worthless rock.
|These things I did no know!||Kristin|
Mar 20, 2003 11:10 AM
|Its not a surprise, I've never been the least bit interested in jewelry. I'm glad Fez said something, I'll do some more research. I hate the idea of being a member of the clueless masses. Now I have to think up some good alternatives. I do believe in giving a symbol of love and a sign of committment to the person you're going to grow old with.|
|Symbol of love...||Fez|
Mar 20, 2003 2:08 PM
|Nothing wrong with having rings as a symbol of love. Its just the diamond has a dark side to it. Some women have beautiful engagement bands that are metal only, no stones.
If you were thinking stones, Princess Di did make the sapphire engagement ring pretty fashionable at one time.
|So where did you get all this info?||Trent in WA|
Mar 20, 2003 11:04 AM
My wife and I feel much the same way about diamonds as Fez and LFR. I don't remember the precise date it was published, but the Atlantic Monthly ran an article in the early to mid 80s about the history of diamonds and de Beers that forever put me off associating them with anything other than blood and degradation. Plus, there's something really tacky and vulgar about associating love with a commodity--you might as well just give your beloved a big gold ingot on a chain, preferably with the price tag still attached, for her to wear in public.
|So where did you get all this info?||Fez|
Mar 20, 2003 11:07 AM
|Try searching reputable news sites and periodicals for starters. I'm sure if you do a google web search, you may be inundated with personal web sites and lots of biased and inaccurate info.
Debeers claims their diamonds were not those that have served as "blood diamonds" or war currency. Maybe, but how can you really tell? Currently, there is no practical way you can identify a diamond's origins.
They say they are working on a process that can put a very small laser logo that identifies it as a Debeers diamond, but I haven't really followed the progress. Anyway, blood diamonds or not, the stones are not rare by any means. But the supply is controlled in a deliberate info to keep the price high. Debeers has a handle on nearly all the diamonds coming out of Africa. The only threat to them are some coming out of Russia, but they are working on those too.
Most of the diamond trade (rough stones) is done outside of the U.S. and the Debeers ads you see here are simply a marketing effort to keep interest high in diamonds. They are a subsidiary of the big parent company. The reason the parent company can only conduct marketing ad campaigns here is because most of the other things they do are illegal in the United States.
End second rant.
|DeBeers is a case study in Market domination & Manipulation.||Len J|
Mar 20, 2003 11:16 AM
|They wrote the book on the following:
-Dominating supply by buying up a large percentage of the Working mines (outside of Russia).
-Driving to be the low cost supplier by runing Company sweatshops at the mines.
-Manipulating conversion (cutting) by directing the Market supply by "cutting out" cutters who try to cut more than they want cut. Basically, live by DeBeers rules or you don't get access to the best (& most profitible) stones.
-Managing supply by ruthlessly attacking anyone who trys to go around them. They ended up with a long term deal with Russia to buy most of their output at good prices in order to give Russia hard currency they needed, in exchange for production & sales maximums.
-They may market their product better than anyone anywhere markets anything. 20 years ago, very few Japanese sealed their engagement with a diamond. DeBeers decided it was a large potential Market & began a major long term ad campaign. The result is that last year, something like 60% of all couples entering new engagements bought diamonds.
All in all, the family has managed to dominate a market for what in essentially is a commidity, and convince everyone by limiting supply that it is a rare gem.
|Actually, your interest has been piqued, not peaked (nm)||Kerry|
Mar 20, 2003 5:48 PM
Mar 20, 2003 8:49 AM
|Most components should swap fine. If you have an older frame, there's a good chance you would have to buy some new components, such as a headset or bottom bracket when swapping component groups to a new frame. Eg, many older frames have threaded forks, while most new frames are threadless. Regarding bottom brackets, most Italian bikes -- surprise -- have Italian BBs. So there's a good chance you would need to buy an English BB with a new frame made elsewhere. |
Another exception is the Rivendell Rambouillet, which only accepts long-reach brakes. I was considering ordering a Rambo, and that was one of the factors that steered me in another direction. I had a perfectly good Ultegra group with nice brakes already and didn't want to spend an extra $100 on new brakes.