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Oh no, Kivilev died........(29 posts)
|Oh no, Kivilev died........||philippec|
Mar 12, 2003 2:26 AM
|A. Kivilev died this morning from the sequels to his crash yesterday... what a loss.
You won't catch me out there w/out a helmet!
|re: Oh no, Kivilev died........||Chooch5014|
Mar 12, 2003 2:47 AM
What an unfortunate accident. My prayers to his family.
|re: Oh no, Kivilev died........||abicirider|
Mar 12, 2003 3:59 AM
|Amazing and how heart drenching first thing I thought when I watched the accident on the VCR last night was oops no helmet.
You really never no when it is your time, When we get up in the morning who knows if we will go to bed that night.
My thoughts and prayers to Kivilev's family.
Be safe out on the Roads guys, gals
|re: Oh no, Kivilev died........||Walter|
Mar 12, 2003 4:46 AM
|Just saw it a few minutes ago in Eurosport.com. I thought when I watched OLN last night that it looked bad but this is a shock. He leaves a 6 month old son.
|re: Oh no, Kivilev died........||Hereford Flyer|
Mar 12, 2003 5:37 AM
The BBC news site article has some interesting comments about the accident. Read it at:-
|Cyclists should be free to continue not to wear helmets...||Cima Coppi|
Mar 12, 2003 6:51 AM
|Given the number of riders who race professionally each year and the amount of kilometres they ride, the death rate is extremely low. Would Kivilev have survived if he was wearing his helmet? Most likely, but we'll never know for sure.
Look at it this way, if you're hit by a car, chances are you're not going to survive if you have a helmet or not.
Another way look at this is that wearing a seat belt in your car will help in a crash, but there's no guarantee you'll survive if the crash is severe enough (say a Hummer hits you head on in your Geo Metro).
I do wear a helmet most of the time, but I fully support our rights to choose not to wear one.
Enough said, flame away.
|Cyclists should be free to continue not to wear helmets...||look271|
Mar 12, 2003 6:56 AM
|I agree; but not wearing one is just irresponsible. He leaves a 6 month old son who will never know his daddy. All because it is POSSIBLY a little less comfortable to ride with a helmet. Not an acceptable risk to me. I prefer to see my 2 girls grow up.|
|freedom has its price...||StupidLight|
Mar 12, 2003 7:09 AM
|I'm all for freedom, but it's too bad Kivilev can't log in from the other side to share his feelings with us right now on the subject.
Helmets have gotten so light and well ventilated that this really seems like a vanity issue more than anything.
I suppose the Europeans can be grateful that their liability system isn't as screwed up as ours here in the US, otherwise those guys wouldn't even be able to touch a bike without a helmet.
It would be interesting to see stats on US racing vs. European racing as far as head injuries go though.
|sorry, but that's a silly argument||DougSloan|
Mar 12, 2003 7:06 AM
|Well, there is no guarantee that you will live if you are wearing a helmet and run over by a 40 ton semi, go off a 1,000 foot cliff, or are hit by an asteroid, either. Does that make them useless? That's silly.
Professional, as well as amateur, racers in nearly every sport are required to wear helmets, along with other safety equipment. Should all of them be optional? Just because they won't save you every time is not a reason not to mandate them.
Regardless of whether a helmet would have mattered here, the evidence is so strong that they at least improve the chances of surviving, compared to the burden of wearing them, that they should be mandated in all racing. If mandated, no one is unfairly disadvantaged by wearing one when someone else chooses not to.
Sure, you don't have to wear one. Don't race.
|We should wear Hockey Shorts and pads too...||eschelon|
Mar 12, 2003 8:02 AM
|I mean, forget about head injuries...those are rare in cycling compared to road rashes and broken bones...I mean those big Hockey shorts with those big plush hockey socks that goes past the knee caps and them big shirts with the padding inside of them would surely make us all M1 Abrams Tanks! And what about those indestructable gloves? Fuh-get about it!|
Mar 12, 2003 9:46 AM
|Also, why should I pay for your head trauma bill and recovery via insurance if you survive? In the 80s I was turned away from a time trial in my home town cause I didnt have a helmet. We racers knew how to fall. Right. Last year I had an impact that surely would have led to a serious head trauma had I not worn a helmet. My wife is an attorney who has worked for head injured clients and from what she says its enormously expensive to rehab from it. Not to mention youre never ever the same and that affects everyone who cares about you forever. Enough soap box.|
|New Book : Freedom for Dummies (nm)||PEDDLEFOOT|
Mar 12, 2003 7:48 AM
|"Freedom? You can't handle the freedom." nm||DougSloan|
Mar 12, 2003 8:44 AM
|"Freedom is the consciousness of necessity" K. Marx nm||tz|
Mar 12, 2003 9:44 AM
|very very sad nm||cyclopathic|
Mar 12, 2003 7:23 AM
|Give it a rest||mohair_chair|
Mar 12, 2003 7:33 AM
|Before we descend into another useless helmet debate, can't we refrain from pretending we know it all for a day or two and remember the man who died?
Here's what Lance had to say (note: helmet never mentioned):
"I want to tell you a little about Andrei Kivilev... I came to know Andrei quite well over the years and really admired him and his style. Andrei was unique you see - he was smart, he was perfectly fluent in English (which I suspect is not normal for a young Kazak), and man was he was aggressive. I loved to race wtih him because you knew when he was in the race, and when the road went uphill, he would lay it all out. Man, was he an attacker! He helped me more then he (or anyone) will ever know - and now he's gone.
After a crash yesterday that seemed to be quite serious, he took a turn for the worst in the night and passed away this morning. I just got off the phone with Johan who told me the bad news, and I'm devastated. The other side to this is that I know exactly what his teammates and friends are feeling. Images and memories of Fabio Casartelli came rushing back. And of course, Andrei rode for Cofidis, a team which I have enough of a history with. But I can tell you that no matter how ugly it's been between them and myself, I would never in my life wish this on anyone. No way.
We (Johan and I) tried like hell to get Andrei to come to the team a few years back when he was with Festina. We lost out on the bidding to AG2R and he slipped away from us. We still talk about him and wish we could have had him. He was our kind of man. Consistent, tough, hard working, and a very cool dude. Andrei, i'm gonna miss you my friend. I will look for you at the base of every hard climb I do now, and I will wish with all my heart that you were there to "light it up" or "open it up" like you have done so many times in the past. Rest in peace... "
|Great post. Good point. (nm)||eyebob|
Mar 12, 2003 7:44 AM
|why don't pro cycling federations require helmets for racers?||tarwheel|
Mar 12, 2003 7:39 AM
|Seems like another situation, like Major League Baseball, where the sanctioning bodies aren't living up to their responsibilities. Like MLB allowing ballplayers to use drugs that are banned in most other sports.|
|Baseball isn't a sport, it is a game. :-P nm||Spunout|
Mar 12, 2003 7:41 AM
|Blasphemy! Monster Truck racing has athletes and is a sport! nm||eschelon|
Mar 12, 2003 8:06 AM
|No, It's a business........nm||MR_GRUMPY|
Mar 12, 2003 8:14 AM
|Biking isn't a sport it is a lifestyle. :-P nm||gtscottie|
Mar 12, 2003 9:00 AM
|But Bike Racing is........nm||MR_GRUMPY|
Mar 12, 2003 9:14 AM
|why don't pro cycling federations require helmets for racers?||bigdave|
Mar 12, 2003 10:57 AM
|Well, the real question is why don't they in UCI racing? It's stupid... the USCF mandates them, as do others in the US. Yeah, it's probably because of insurance, but it's still a good policy. And what's the big deal if everyone has to wear them?|
|Read the news: they tried, but the racers protested. nm||Spunout|
Mar 12, 2003 11:41 AM
|They can't save themselves *from* themselves||bigdave|
Mar 12, 2003 8:46 PM
|Sad and stupid.|
|If all racers had helmets it would increase overall helmet usage||Maartin|
Mar 12, 2003 2:42 PM
|A lot of unnecessary head injuries would be avoided which would be a worthwhile. It would also reduce insurance costs to promoters of charity rides etc. It is only a matter of time before it becomes mandatory in my opinion.|
|Different responsibilities when you become a father...||t-bill|
Mar 12, 2003 11:00 AM
|Kivilev's death is tragic no matter the circumstances. The helmet issue can be debated forever by those without dependents, however, as soon as you become a Dad, or even a husband, you loose the freedom to choose! It is every father's/mother's absolute responsibility to limit his/her expsoure to danger as much as possible.|
|Yep...here are my 2 reasons for wearing a helmet....||SS_MB-7|
Mar 12, 2003 11:56 AM
Tyler (left) now 2-1/2 yrs old and his sister, Kiley, now 11 months old.