RoadBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - General


Archive Home >> General(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 )


Simultaneoulsy shifting front and rear deraillure...(28 posts)

Simultaneoulsy shifting front and rear deraillure...joekm
Mar 5, 2003 10:43 AM
One of the problems of going from a 53 to a 39 chainring is the abrubt change of gear. Today (having finally gotten on the road), I realized that I'd never actually tried shifting them both at the same time. This seems to work a little better - although it will take some experimenting to get a viable technique worked out.

So, this a workable method or is it abusive to the drivetrain?

Thanks,

Joe
an expensive shiftAaronL
Mar 5, 2003 10:50 AM
You can shift both at the same time, but beware of doing it under pressure. I did it once (i've done it many times before and many times since) and it threw the chain off of the front and then sucked it into the cogs in the rear. Net result, a destroyed front a rear der, ripped chain hanger and a long, cold wait for the wife to pick my dumb ass up.

That gear change cost me about $200.00
an expensive shiftjoekm
Mar 5, 2003 10:53 AM
Of course, you never shift under tension anyways, but that's good to know.
re: Simultaneoulsy shifting front and rear deraillure...VW
Mar 5, 2003 10:52 AM
I do it all the time, and I actually found it shifts smoother that way. I too would like to know if this is abusive to the gears.

VW
re: Simultaneoulsy shifting front and rear deraillure...c722061
Mar 5, 2003 10:53 AM
I do that all the time. My drivetrain has close to 1000 miles and still work perfectly. I think it is a matter of how you shift it. BTW, I am not very hard on pedals like some others.
re: Simultaneoulsy shifting front and rear deraillure...NASA Noddler
Mar 5, 2003 10:56 AM
I do it.

The two problems that I worry about is

1) Throwing the chain

and

2) I've gotten so use to doing it, I did it while standing and hammering into the wind last Saturday, didn't even think about it before I did it.

All I can say is that Tyler Hamilton flashed through my mind watching him go over the top last year when the prawls in his hub didn't catch. I worried what would happen to me if it threw the chain while standing and hammering the pedals. Wouldn't be pretty.
Do it all the time, it's a nice thing about Campy 10...PdxMark
Mar 5, 2003 10:59 AM
Any front derailleur shift comes with a simultaneous multi-step (2 or 3) shift in back. The result is that a front shift feels the same as a rear shift.
Ohhhh...I did not know that...joekm
Mar 5, 2003 11:08 AM
This makes Campy worth a look see. Is that shift safe under high chain tension and/or out of the saddle?
I doubt it.... actually I bet not....PdxMark
Mar 5, 2003 11:16 AM
not sure I even really like to shift just the rear under high, out-of-saddle tension.... I'll see on the ride home tonight.
I've done it, you still need to back off a little and...joekm
Mar 5, 2003 11:22 AM
it can be disconcertingly abrupt. It's not something I'd recommend unless your pretty sure about your adjustment.

I asked because, if Campy auto-shifts the rear and you drop going up a hill with excessive chain tension, that could be worse than just a rough shift. I.E. - it becomes something you need to be aware of if you have a Campy drivetrain.
Ohhhh...I did not know that...Spunout
Mar 5, 2003 11:18 AM
I ride Chorus 10 and it is quite easy. I wouldn't hammmer the pedals, but all shifting works under load.

Two thumbs down to go to small ring and 2 or 3 cogs smaller. Two flicks of middle fingers takes me to large ring and a larger cog.

Don't forget, you can shift up to 10 cogs down with one thumbstroke, or up 3 at any time. Ca-CHUNK!
Ohhhh yeah......rogue_CT1
Mar 5, 2003 2:32 PM
Once you get the Campy 10 speed tuned it will shift flawlessly. I shift the front and rear at the same time quite often. I can even shift the rear several gears at a time while I shift the front derailleur. With the Record system I can shift out of the large chain ring and shift the rear gears up and down the cassette while standing out of the saddle. The chain never binds or skips. It really is an awesome system.

I don't want to start a long thread about Campy vs Shimano so I will clearly state that I have never used the Shimano STI system and I do not know of its capabilities. If you use Shimano, good for you, I'm sure it is a fine product.
ShimanoGalibier
Mar 6, 2003 6:17 AM
If any Campy user cares, Shimano allows multiple rear shifts as well -- you simply fire off however many rapid clicks of the inner lever as you need, and the chain drops down to the chosen cog. You can't run the entire block at once, but I don't know why anyone would ever do that anyway. Also, you can move up the block in one, two, or three cogs depending on how far you shift with the brake lever. I've never understood the claim that Campy allows multiple rear shifts but Shimano doesn't -- I make multiple rear shifts, and simultaneous front and back shifts, with my Dura-Ace all the time. I guess it's just part of the Campy lore.
Having ridden both, the difference is...PdxMark
Mar 6, 2003 9:33 AM
"many rapid clicks of the inner lever" versus the multiple cog shift you can do with the brake lever. Campy lets you shift multiple cogs up AND down with a single movement - no "many rapid clicks." The result, in shifting to smaller cogs, is a faster multi-cog shift on Campy than on Shimano. It's not a huge difference, but I notice it. It's not Campy lore, it's Shimano denial.
that's whycyclopathic
Mar 6, 2003 9:36 AM
42t inner works better with Shimano shifters ;)
You missed my pointGalibier
Mar 6, 2003 1:34 PM
Campy fans claim that they can make multiple rear shifts whereas Shimano doesn't allow that. Not true. Also, Campy fans boast about being able to run the entire block at once. Who cares? No one ever does that. Finally, given how quickly I can make my multiple rear shifts with Dura-Ace, I don't see how Campy could be much faster and still be precise -- that is, still end up on the precise cog you desire. But hey -- maybe some day I'll get Campy, then I too can become enamored with the peerless artistry and mythic operation of my precious components.
You missed my pointPdxMark
Mar 6, 2003 2:16 PM
"Campy fans claim that they can make multiple rear shifts whereas Shimano doesn't allow that. Not true."

OK. You acknowledge you must make multiple single shifts with the small lever - going to smaller cogs. Is that true, or has that changed since your first post? You can do it quickly. Great, but it's still multiple single shifts.

In Campy you can shift multiple gears in one shift action with your hand. What's the difference? 1 second, probably less, for a multi-cog shift. As I said, it's a small differnce, but it is a difference. As for hitting the right gear, it's not hard. It's just like the old days with friction shifters.

Each of us is free to bear a chip on our shoulder. Fine. But we ought to be able to either agree on the facts, or at least not to change them through a discussion thread.
You missed my pointGalibier
Mar 7, 2003 8:13 AM
Nothing's changed since my first post. I rapidly flick the inner lever. The number of clicks determines the number of cogs over which the chain will move -- very precise. The chain doesn't hop down each cog one at a time; it goes directly to the cog selected by the number of clicks. I consider this to be a multiple rear shift. Same thing going up the block -- the chain moves up one, two, or three cogs in a single motion. I consider that to be a multiple rear shift as well.

Your last post suggests that I am inconsistent or dishonest. In reality, it appears you did not understand what I was saying. Next time, do not be so quick to accuse.
agreedlonefrontranger
Mar 5, 2003 11:16 AM
This is one place the Campag stuff does shine is in the capability to smoothly take simultaneous front and rear shifts. I do this all the time as well, and it's a very smooth and bulletproof function of Campag 10.

Agreed, you wouldn't do this under hard effort. After many years' riding it's second nature for me to just back a touch off the pressure before doing a dual shift. Sprinting is another matter - wham-wham-wham - the Ergo stuff is nice and fast here, too.
re: Simultaneoulsy shifting front and rear deraillure...mapei boy
Mar 5, 2003 11:24 AM
I have Campy 10. I've had a lifetime of bad luck trying to shift the front derailleur under pressure (whether the shifters were Huret, Simplex, Shimano, Campy or anything else). But with the Campy 10 and under reasonable pressure, simultaneous shifts have always been fine. And the Campy 10 rear derailleur will shift anytime, anywhere.
anecdotal incidentDougSloan
Mar 5, 2003 11:29 AM
I used to all the time. I stopped after I exploded a Campy Record rear derailleur while doing so. YMMV.

Doug
One disaster outweighs thousands of sucessful shifts.dzrider
Mar 5, 2003 11:47 AM
Especially doing something that's basically unnecessary. I guess because I started with down-tube, friction levers I never shift both derailleurs at the same time. I imagine you feel much the same way about it as I feel about tying my shirt on the handle bars on hot days. One shirt locking up my front brakes was enough that I'll never do it again.
anecdotal incidentrussw19
Mar 5, 2003 1:03 PM
Yeah, but Doug, send me that derailleur and I will put it back together and use it. That's the beauty of Campy!

Russ
Campy is re-buildable? (nm)joekm
Mar 5, 2003 1:18 PM
yes, you can even get the parts for their 20 year old stuff (nm)lonefrontranger
Mar 5, 2003 1:29 PM
the carbon part came apart nmDougSloan
Mar 5, 2003 1:43 PM
I do it all the time toobigrider
Mar 5, 2003 1:12 PM
I did see a guy eat a rear der. but he was standing and cranking on the pedals when he shifted both the front and the rear.

I double shift most when I am starting up a hill from a fast downhill. I downshift until I am in the middle of the rear cogset. When I need to make my next downshift I downshift from the 53 to the 39 and upshift in the back. It works out perfectly with your cadence.
realized on yesterday's ride that i do it constantly (campy) nmJS Haiku Shop
Mar 6, 2003 7:09 AM