|How should I handle a mail order company that is lieing?||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 1:58 PM
|Heres the story:
I ordered an aero wheel from a mail order company 3 weeks ago. The guy said he had the wheel but no track axle. So when it got shipped from overseas he'd have it sent off to me ASAP. So I said okay as long as I got it before I left... they billed me for it.
Now its 3 weeks weeks later, I leave Saturday and the wheel is in France. Supposedly when I called late last week they somehow gave me the story they had received the axle or were just about to reeive it and they would ship it express to me.
But today I called and they told me they mixed up orders and it wasn't my wheel. My wheel had never been in stock and the entire wheel was on its way and would be here later in the week. From there they will ship it to me in Australia.
So what should I do? They are a company that normally deals with bike shops only and do me and other riders a favour by selling us the track wheels at their cost. But the thing is I know they have sold the same wheel cheaper to other people who have probably gotten it a lot faster and with a lot less confusion and/or deceit. Even if they ship it to Australia what should I ask for? I bought my old track wheels form them too. I think they give me a good deal but they still must have a fair size margin.
|Kick the gift horse in the mouth - hypocracy at its best...||TJeanloz|
Mar 4, 2003 2:07 PM
|Nick, a week ago [maybe less] you were complaining that not enough people were paying you to ride your bike. Now you have somebody who is offering a [substantial] discount on a product, and you get mad because their service isn't great?
Let me tell you how this business works: If they have "your" wheel, but need to get an axle, and they're selling it to you as a favor, and somebody else comes and wants your wheel, and has cash-money today, the real customer comes first. Someday try to get a pro deal from Mavic; you'll be retired before the parts come in. If the company is doing you a favor, cut them infinite slack, even if you want your wheel now. You wonder what you should ask for? How about you ask that they eventually get you a wheel and you stop complaining about them.
|Agree. You get what you pay for when it comes to service too.||czardonic|
Mar 4, 2003 2:13 PM
|Don't like their service? Take your business elsewhere.|
|I am paying something!||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 2:29 PM
|Here are my points:
1) they have money in THEIR bank. I could swear a bank calls that a loan.
2) either there is a lot of confusion or they are being deceitful.
3) they do have a margin in it. They aren't buying it and selling it to me or giving it to me below cost.
|Apparently, not much, as far as they are concerned.||czardonic|
Mar 4, 2003 3:14 PM
|I'm not saying that you shouldn't be miffed at their confusion and/or deceit. I'd me miffed too, and I would take my business elsewhere because of it.
Question: Is the money your saving worth the hassle of dealing with them?
If yes, then keep sending them polite inquiries until they have responded to your satisfaction. If not, tell them you want your money back and spend it elsewhere.
This just may be one of those rare occasions when life isn't fair and/or doesn't work out the way we want it to.
|Think twice before replying to my posts||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 2:24 PM
|TJ, thanks for the reply.
To start off once again you are taking a post or series of posts and trying to develop my entire persona around them. Then getting mad at me for my outlook on the post your replying to.
So don't get me wrong I am infinitely grateful to this company for wholesaleing me wheels. I'm getting it for 1800 ice dollars, a friend who was on a team out east got it for about 1000 ice dollars. Retail is at least 2400. Of course these numbers are not real. But from these it shows they do still keep a margin in them. And I know they sell track wheels to a lot of people who have connections to get their number.
So with this said I know the customer comes first. But they did take my money. So what am I supposed to do? Turn my back to the fact that I am short 1800 ice dollars in my bank account while waiting for them to decide to ship me my wheels when they do have a margin in it? If it was another company that gives me stuff to use then I would never in a million years complain even if I got the stuff at the end of the season. But this company is making money of me... and are being deceitful. Being given a deal or not there is no justication to that.
I know I have to think twice before replying to posts at times but so it seems I'm not the only one who has to do it. My reputation precedes me but it doesn't give you the right to unjustly call me a hypocrit.
|Your options include, canceling the order, suing for fraud, or||bill|
Mar 4, 2003 2:49 PM
|waiting, because you have no leverage.
How did you pay? If by credit card, under US law (may be applicable if a US bank; I really don't know), you can contest the charge, and you needn't pay that part of your bill. You have to write the co. w/in, I think, sixty days.
But none of this realistically helps you. You want the wheel. By giving them your money ahead of time, however, you regrettably relinquished all leverage. You can trust them, or not, but your remedies are limited short of running to Court, which is hardly realistic, or, truth be told, warranted, unless you truly believe that they are scumsuckers and never intend to give you your wheel and you are happy to be (a) blackballed by the company and (b) reviled as the guy who killed the pro deal with the wheel company.
It's hard to know what is upsetting you more, not getting the wheel or not getting the same price that someone else got. Price is a tough thing to negotiate after they have your money. Chances are, too, that the other guy didn't need it before he shipped off to Australia in three weeks. If they are interested in continuing to deal with you (see, above), then they may renegotiate, but for that you have to draw the line between being just a pain in the ass and a kid who is going to be worth it to them to make happy.
|I want the wheel and I apprecate whatever deal they are givingme||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 2:54 PM
|I obviously want the wheel. And I want the deal they are giving me. Pro deals tend to be cost - 25% but I figure they do have a margin in the wheel so its not like they are losing money so this makes me more frustrated.
I paid by credit card and although I could contest the charge I don't feel its appropriate since they are giving me a deal and I don't want to give them a bad rep. This is an isolated incident but still extremely frustrating for me since they did charge it and promises have been made.
In the end I asked they give me a new axle for my rear wheel since the one I have is acting up. They said okay and are most likely shipping the wheel to Australia. I'm content with that.
|well, Nick, if you are content with the situation, then why are||bill|
Mar 4, 2003 3:18 PM
|you asking? It seems you ARE happy with the service you're getting.
I haven't got involved in the slug-nick-fests below, because(a) who has time for that and (b) you contribute between the narcisism, but, man, this is starting to look like nothing more than an opportunity to tell us earthbound folks that you're going to Australia to use your new aero wheel.
BTW, I have no trouble with your being demanding for your dollars, but learn something about leverage first.
|Bill... seriously bite me||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 3:40 PM
|I say bite me cus any other 2 word sayings would be too rude for this board.
If you have a problem with my posts don't even read them. I asked a question wondering what my options were considering my situation. My situation is I'm travelling I don't give a rats a$$ if most of you know. What the heck would self-promoting myself on the board do? Its not like people are running to my donations page.
|okay, I took the time to read your post, I answered you with||bill|
Mar 4, 2003 3:58 PM
|some advice that may not have been all that kind and gentle, but it was real, because you don't seem to have the slightest clue how the world works, and then you say, oh, well, never mind, I'm happy with what they are doing, you just wasted your time . . . and then I get a little annoyed at having wasted my time, and, because I'm quite sure you don't understand why this would annoy someone, I try to point out why, because you seem consistently mystified why it is that you put people off, and then you say, BITE ME?!!!!
I, sir, will not be biting you.
as another aside, you probably will go far in life, Nick, because you will no doubt leave behind you a trail of well-meaning people that are now pissed off, but, because your personal skills are as they are, you will have no clue, and you just will move onto the next well-meaning person, without compunction, and most people won't go out of their way to drag you down, and you'll just move on before anyone you've pissed off has a say. It's genius.
|Whole point of this post||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 4:14 PM
|I asked what I could ask for. They took my money and as of yet I have nothing. Then I got answers that I should basically let them charge me since I'm getting a deal so I went into damage control. But everyone did help make it clear that they were giving me some slack so I should give them some as well. So a phone call later about the axle and an offer to throw it in with things makes me happy enough.
Anyway give me a bit of a break alright? I've caused sh!t in the past but it doesn't mean my entire persona should be based on those posts.
PS I'd prefer you didn't bite me anyway. :)
Mar 4, 2003 8:47 PM
|Why does everyone waste so much time on this twit's posts?|
|I don't appreciate...||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 8:56 PM
|I don't appreciate being called a twit. I asked a valid question. People took my money for a product that I haven't received. If you got a fricking problem with me posting on here asking what I can do I'd be discuss your problem with you. Because I think it goes a bit deeper than me... perhaps a traumatic childhood experience.
|Looked in the mirror? No one asked you to read any of this (nm)||hackmechanic|
Mar 4, 2003 9:04 PM
Mar 5, 2003 5:08 AM
|Once again I have to say that let's all ignore Nick's posts. He is nothing but a troll, and a good one at that. Even his semi-non-look at me posts degenerate into a flood of crap.|
|mmmm.... Nick said bite! (nm)||Daddylonglegs|
Mar 6, 2003 7:27 PM
|I want the wheel and I apprecate whatever deal they are givingme||russw19|
Mar 4, 2003 3:20 PM
|Nick, just a quick word of wisdom or two for you, and don't freak out, I am not criticising you.
If you are getting a pro deal, that means you wait. Period. The company is really not making money on you. They are probably losing money on you. Just because in the past they could offer the wheel cheaper to someone else is not indicitive of them turning a profit on you. Things change in the Global Market. Maybe the cost of thier supplies dramatically went up. Don't think that happens, try to get an Easton Magnesium stem right now. The US plant they were having those made in also makes weapons for the military... guess who gets goods when it's you or the US military.
So maybe their own costs fluxuate, or they are having unforseen supply problems. So what, deal with it. If you are really going to be mad at someone, be mad at yourself. You are going to compete overseas and you are not prepared with your equipment. That's your fault, not theirs. If something unforseen happened on your end, like your axle started to act up, well you should have thought ahead. Do you see where this is going? It's the same logic you are using to bash whoever is supplying your wheel. Things happen. They may owe you an explaination, and they may feel they don't. But if they are giving you ANY deal, you need to be humble and gracious and patient. Say thank you when you get the stuff, and until then don't complain. Otherwise you will get yourself a reputation where no one will help you in the future. Then you're screwed.
Also, are you not aware of what is going on in the world. Gas prices are on the rise and international trade is way down. Shipping costs are thru the roof right now. The world is gearing up for another war in the middle east. This does affect your dealings with companies overseas. I am not saying that's the reason, but it could certainly be a factor.
Seems to me that you really need to do what most of us who have ever had to support ourselves when turning pro had to do. Plan ahead for the worst, cuz it will happen eventually, and just try to ride out the bad times. I would think you would know by now that pro cycling is about suffering. Sometimes off the bike too. Next time you plan to race overseas, be prepared with 3 or 4 wheelsets.
When I went to race in Belgium in the early 90's, I took 2 bikes, 5 sets of wheels, and about a bike and a half of spare parts. I came back with 2 bikes and 1 extra set of wheels and a front derailleur. Sometimes this stuff happens.
|Thanks Russ (nm)||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 3:35 PM
Mar 4, 2003 3:55 PM
|I know it's not what you want to hear right now, and I honestly can understand it... but it's the truth. Nothing beats planning for the insane to happen, cuz as you are finding out right now, it will.
Good luck in Aussie land.
|stop picking on nick||hackmechanic|
Mar 4, 2003 8:31 PM
|you said: "If you are getting a pro deal, that means you wait. Period. The company is really not making money on you. They are probably losing money on you."
Not true. Maybe you will wait for your order but 49 times out of 50 the pro deal means you get the product at wholesale pricing or, if you've got a really good deal, 10% below wholesale, which means they are usually making as much money as they normally would or just a little bit less off the product. In the end the user is still getting a good deal but, believe me, the manufacturer is still making money. All pro deals or sponsorships usually offer is the opportunity to bypass the retailer. I've never had experience with a pro-deal that offers something at a significant discount off of the wholesale price.
And if they have Nick's money, Nick should have his wheels, it's that simple.
|stop picking on nick <- I never have||russw19|
Mar 5, 2003 12:59 PM
|hackmechanic, I have never taken pop shots at Nick. Heck I like the kid. He's young, but if we all aren't still, weren't we all once? I was a young brash arrogant cyclist at age 17. I can't pick on Nick, because I fully understand what he is doing and where he is coming from.
As for pro deal's and employee purchase and stuff like that... well, I don't know about your expirience with them, so I can't speak to that, but I know what I have been given by companies in the past soley to use their product and advertise it for them. And often times companies outright gave me stuff. Some stuff I got at insane discounts, like half of wholesale (Giro helmet's sponsorship deals) and I can bet you that Giro isn't making as much as a dime on that deal! I was given free bikes, free parts, free tires, free clothes, and even actual cash for entry fees and hotel costs. Tell me how the company isn't losing money there?
Yeah, I admit my expirience is out of the ordinary, but I was an out of the ordinary rider at the point when I got all that and I worked for a really big shop that moved a lot of product and I was a top salesperson there and my reps knew it. So they went to bat for me and pulled strings. In the long run, they made back what they gave me thru shop sales and stuff like that, but they lost money on me as an individual. Even if the company breaks even on you, they are hooking you up. They deserve to make a profit on everything they make. That's why they are in business, but if someone does a favor for you, is it really your custom to complain about them for it? I am not knocking Nick on this one, but I think the guys making his wheels are helping him out and doing him a favor that they don't have to. I think out of respect for that, he owes them a bit of leeway too. They are not treating him like your average Joe, they deserve the same consideration. I think Nick understands that. But he did come to the forum and ask for advice and opinions. I gave him mine. He didn't get mad at me, because I gave a stern opinion, but I wasn't rude about it, and I didn't say anything mean to him. He went on in the thread to thank me for my advice/opinion and I told him that it may not have been what he wanted to hear, but I think it's the right thing. So where am I picking on Nick? And what makes you lash out at me for it?
|3 weeks interest on $1800 = $3.12 (nm)||Kerry|
Mar 4, 2003 4:26 PM
Mar 4, 2003 8:33 PM
|Next time you spend $1800 on something you won't mind waiting up to or longer than 3 weeks to get it even though they have your cash in hand?|
|Its not $1800||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 4, 2003 8:58 PM
|Trust me its not $1800. I just used random numbers since I'm not going to name the company or ammount I paid for them.
Either way the guy told me it'd be a week so I handed over the credit card info. Hmmm...
|Why don't we have an "ignore" feature here?||Alexx|
Mar 5, 2003 5:48 AM
|Frankly, I'm tired of reading this impatient, sociopathic, spoiled brat's posts. Other boards have a feature allowing you to ignore a particular poster. Do we have that possibility here?|
|Aren't you the impatient one?||Sprint-Nick|
Mar 5, 2003 8:19 AM
|Lets look at the dictionary definition of impatient (taken from dictionary.com)... here goes:
1) Unable to wait patiently or tolerate delay; restless.
***2) Unable to endure irritation or opposition; intolerant: impatient of criticism.***
3) Expressing or produced by impatience: an impatient scowl.
4) Restively eager or desirous; anxious: impatient to begin.
Number 2 fits right in with your problem.
Then for kicks lets look at the definition of sociopathic:
***One who is affected with a personality disorder marked by antisocial behavior.***
Here I am trying to be friends with you and you go and get all antisocial on me asking to ignore me. Thats not very nice.
Finally I'm not sure why your calling me a spoiled brat... did you know I do work to help support my cycling?