|USPS Team using Campagnolo Delta Brakes||unchained|
Feb 23, 2003 9:00 PM
|Can hairnets and quill stems be far behind? (This is 1996 Olympic track team member Bostick, a USPS Masters Team member).|
|re: USPS Team using Campagnolo Delta Brakes||Rob Sal|
Feb 24, 2003 1:14 AM
|Good for him, they are excellent brakes, I have a similar set up (Deltas and Record Ergos).|
|Isnt that Greenville?||CARBON110|
Feb 24, 2003 4:46 AM
|Since he is a 4 time Olypian he is allowed to use whatever his heart desires including that Griffen herode on Sunday|
|Isnt that Greenville?||Freewheelers|
Feb 24, 2003 5:34 AM
|He soloed to victory on Saturday. Gutsy performance from a classy guy. What a champ. I laughed when I saw the Griffen. I know USPS masters ride Kleins, but I think he has earned the right to ride whatever the hell he wants!|
|Equipment still not in...||Bill B|
Feb 24, 2003 6:04 AM
|The Postal Masters team will be on Serotta's the next two years. Bostwick is wearing a Jersey with Klein on it so my guess is they just haven't gotten their new kits yet so untill then they just wear last years stuff and ride whatever they have, since Kent rode for Mercy Health last year he doesn't have a left over Klein, hence the Griffen.|
|Can a Campy expert set something straight here ...||sacheson|
Feb 24, 2003 6:06 AM
|... back when I was first getting into cycling, around 1988 or so, the bike shop I frequented (and the first shop I worked in) employed this retro Campy guy. He always referred to Deltas as "speed modulators", not brakes. He used to argue "Shimano thinks you want to skid around on a road bike, only Campagnolo understands how to control the rider's speed".
Now I know it's a trivial point, but has anyone else heard of Deltas referred to as 'speed modulators'? Every time I hear of someone complaining on their performance, I think of this guy and think about how (according to him) they were not designed to be super-stopping gizmos.
Enjoy your Monday.
|Can a Campy expert set something straight here ...||noveread|
Feb 24, 2003 6:33 AM
|Wasn't there a big discussion regarding deltas as a result of the "worst product ever" post last week? Someone lumped thme in with the worst ever group and that engendered the discussion...
I only have stuff apparently designed to lock up my wheels so I can't comment on the deltas...
|the definitive source on Campy||DougSloan|
Feb 24, 2003 7:21 AM
|yes, tho not an expert by any stretch||lonefrontranger|
Feb 24, 2003 8:06 AM
|I joined the discussion by saying Deltas were, quite simply, the best criterium racing brakes ever designed. Part of the misunderstanding about their function comes from guys who think brake pads must be set about 1mm off the rims to function properly. For old single-pivot sidepulls, and to some extent dual-pivot brakes, this is true.
However, Deltas are neither. They are dual-hinge centerpulls. Owing to their design, their strength geometrically increases as a factor of their travel. This means they must be set up further off the rims before they'll actually start to really clamp down.
Also owing to their unique design, Deltas have practically infinite modulation. They are very, very progressive unlike dual-pivot designs which tend to come on like a light switch. As most are aware, a skidding tire due to overbraking is not a safe thing in crit racing. Hence the propensity for some of the wiser old-school Masters racers (Kent apparently one of them) to use the Delta setup to provide better and safer braking modulation.
I have ridden a crit bike set up with Deltas (not mine unfortunately), and have been yearning for a set ever since. Had I a set I most likely would not have crashed and broken my collarbone from overbraking / highsiding in a crit last year. The "differential braking" concept Campag has introduced in recent years is a step back towards a more modulated braking system.
|is there a whole lot of difference in absolute stopping power?||collinsc|
Feb 24, 2003 9:22 AM
|are the deltas really that deficient in that area? or are people just being snobby about them?
could a significantly inclinded campagnolo engineer re-create the delta design up to modern strength?
|significant penalty was in weight||lonefrontranger|
Feb 24, 2003 9:44 AM
|The biggest challenge with Delta brakes besides the fiddly cable adjustment and 3.5mm allen key is that they are indeed pigs. Even the Record design was something like 4 OUNCES heavier per set even than standard sidepulls. Due to the complexity of the design, they had to use stainless steel for the internal moving parts, as alloy ones corroded quickly.
IMO, you would never get even an "improved" Delta design past the current crop of weight snobs.
My feeling is that after reading numerous discussions in this direction on this and the Cyclocross boards lately, anyone truly interested in combining braking modulation and power would probably opt for a custom designed disc brake frame first because the cool factor is so much higher, even tho a disc setup weighs even more than Deltas, adds serious complexity to maintenance, plus exposed sharp edged rotating blades on the wheels for you or your pack partners to fall on in a crash, and will tend to rip lightweight or poorly designed wheels apart due to torque spinup. However, having worked in the industry a bit, I can say with confidence that bike consumers aren't necessarily logical when they vote with their wallet. They merely want whatever really cool gadgets the pros are using this week, regardless of practicality.
|campy loves Ti and CF||collinsc|
Feb 24, 2003 10:13 AM
|campy should make these as an option
"Reader Mikael Bergqvist has this unique Delta brakeset, modified to include:
All steel hardware replaced with titanium (thanks to SRP)
Tyre guides removed, new spacers made.
New spacers between brake and frame/fork made from aluminum.
New brake pad nuts made from aluminium.
New covers in carbon fiber.
All alu. parts anodized black.
The result: Classic AND high tech, total weight for the pair: 371g"
|and probably spent $1000 doing it. nm||DougSloan|
Feb 24, 2003 10:36 AM
|significant penalty was in weight||Rob Sal|
Feb 24, 2003 11:24 AM
|I weighed my Record Deltas and they were only 20grams per caliper heavier than my Chorus Monoplanar brakes (what some PDM pros were using in place of Deltas back in 90/91) And as for the weight weenie brigade, if they want to put up with poorer performance,durability or (for saddles) comfort for the sake of a few grams here or there then thats their problem. My bike may be a little heavier, but I will be more comfortable for a bit longer (saddle again), and possibly be able to use my brakes in such a way that I won't hit the deck/ a car and end up in hospital. As its fair to say hospital dressing/ bone screws will weigh a bit more than 40 grams!!
The pros were using Delta brakes from 86 till 93, and much of the peloton were using them, including in the mountains, I still have my Winning mags from 86-92 with those great photos of them. How many times did you ever see any Shimano equipped pros using their version of the delta brake made in 83-4ish? Me? Once, and that was Lance Armstrong on his prologue bike for one of the TdFs a couple of years ago!! Maybe they didn't work very well!
|significant penalty was in price and availability||russw19|
Feb 24, 2003 12:08 PM
|I think a fair amount of the people who bash the Campy Delta Brakes (the Record model, not the Croce D'Aune) have either just never actually riden them, or never riden a set that was properly set up. They are excellent brakes, when set up right. Their downfall was due to the expense to build them on Campy's part. They just weren't affordable to the general public, even by Campy C-Record standards. They couldn't continue to make them just for a select few Euro Pros. The other downfall to that brake was that the time they started to disappear from the pro peleton was like someone else said, around 1993. That's the start of the lightweight revolution in mountain and road cycling when everybody and their grandmother put out some purple anodized CNC machined monkey light parts that lasted a full season before either breaking, or being passe'. I knew a guy who used to come into the shop I worked at as a teenager and he would bash everything Campy that he could... but the truth eventually came out, he had never even riden it! He was angry that the good stuff was out of his price range, while you could build a pro replica bike with Dura-Ace pretty cheap. Not knocking Dura-Ace, as I rode it myself then too (couldn't afford Campy then either) but until 1999 Shimano never won a Tour de France. All Campy until then.|
|significant penalty was in price and availability||Rob Sal|
Feb 24, 2003 12:39 PM
|That's right, Shimano didn't 'win the Tour' till 99 though it wasn't all Campag before then...Mavic won in 89 and in the early 70s I think some other European groupset (or miss mash of parts) won. Having said that I never did subscribe to the 'Shimano must be crap, as they have never won the Tour' thing, as a lot of it was down to pure chance. A groupset will not decide a stage race win!!|
|The L.A. brake ...||sacheson|
Feb 24, 2003 3:24 PM
|... was some old style Shimano Dura Ace, not Campy Delta.|
|The L.A. brake ...||Rob Sal|
Feb 25, 2003 1:11 AM
|I don't recall anyone saying it was a Campy Delta. I said it was Shimano's version of the Delta from 83-84 a Dura Ace AX caliper.|
|If I was going to vote on bike stuff with my wallet ...||sacheson|
Feb 24, 2003 3:28 PM
|... I'd buy these: www.CAT-USA.com Much cooler than discs, dual pivot, and they please the weight weenie crowd, too.|| |