|Sponsors and professional sports||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 20, 2003 9:08 AM
|I just realized that companies pay to sponsor professional sports. Here in Calgary the Calgary Flames are struggling but Air Canada sponsors the Saddledome. In my opinion professional sports should be banned from getting product sponsors and instead this money should be directed towards amateur sports. The Air Canada bursary fund for amateur sports would get a heck of a lot of coverage especially during the Olympics.
|Yes, subsidize the mediocre, let the best fend for themselves...||TJeanloz|
Feb 20, 2003 9:25 AM
|Are you kidding right now? I don't even know how to begin to respond to this. But I'll try.
Why should a corporation sponsor Amateurs instead of professionals? And isn't a sponsored amateur really just a professional in different clothing? Which isn't to say that companies don't sponsor amateur events- did you miss the advertisements at the Olympics?
Why should anybody but the best reap rewards? This goes back to a cornerstone of American (and apparently Canadian) culture that I loathe: the "I worked hard so I deserve something" attitude. A lot of people work hard, only the best can expect fame and fortune from their hard work.
|I love you man.||sickofit|
Feb 20, 2003 9:35 AM
|TJean, I always like your responses. Nick, seems like no matter what you say, on any topic, especially the posts just designed to get attention, you annoy the hell out of me. I'm not the only one. Ever wonder why?|
|I think we need to give Nick a bit of a break||ColnagoFE|
Feb 20, 2003 9:52 AM
|Sure he can be egocentric and annoying at times, but isn't he like 19 years old? When I was 19 I was more interested in smoking weed and getting laid than I was in my future career. I'm sure I knew it all then as well. I think Nick's ambition and egotism will serve him well if he chooses to enter the world of professional sports. He's gonna need to believe in himself and have a thick skin to be able to take the kind of stuff that gets dished out.|
|Who's sees the money from Olympic commercials!?!?||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 20, 2003 9:43 AM
|To the best of my knowledge no Olympian has ever seen the money for TV rights. It just goes into the IOC which like any big organization has more pomp and circumstance than it deserves but theres nothing to be done about it. Like how much do you think Jaques Rogue the IOC president makes???
Anyway my point is that professional sports are designed to be free standing companies that profit and lose money on their own. Why should the government and other companies sponsor them??? Basically they are just paying for advertising. If a country like Canada that doesn't have the sheer number of people like the US wants to do well in sport the only way to do it is through funding.
Which leads me into my next point. Even if only 1% of the people going through a sporting program reach the international level you are breeding fit young people who will be more fit physically and focused mentally from years of sport. I have learned lessons playing sports since I was 5 that if I quit now would make every single second I spent doing it worthwhile... I would have no regrets. But now I've settled into the sport of cycling and have made it this far so I'm not going to back down from my dream of going to the Olympics.
|You appear to have very limited knowledge...||TJeanloz|
Feb 20, 2003 9:56 AM
|No Olympian has ever seen sponsorship money? Who do you think pays for the U.S. Olympic Training centers in Colorado Springs, Lake Placid, and Chula Vista? But we'll talk about your own country, instead of mine. The Canadian Olympic Committee has given millions of dollars to athletes to support their training for the Olympics, see:
Most of their revenue comes from corporate sponsorship and grants. The COC also has contributed millions to maintain the National Sport Centres for athlete development.
Then there's the issue with Government funding, which, I think is probably a reasonable argument. The Government might be well served to offer physical fitness activities to its population to promote healthy lifestyles. But it would probably be an abuse of this goal to pay people to ride there bikes- there is a big difference between encouraging physical health and paying people to work out.
And to counter the professional argument, professional sports teams contribute more to a society than most simple businesses. Few Canadian cities are capable of affording an NHL hockey team - but with corporate sponsorship they can maintain their teams, which the people derive a fair amount of benefit from.
|Of course it looks good on paper||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 20, 2003 10:07 AM
|I didn't know the exact numbers of money put in so thanks for the info.
But do you know what that translates into? Here goes:
- Coaches (some of whom with a masters degree) struggling making $20,000 Canadian a year.
- Athletes get approx. $1000 a month in carding at the upper end.
- Very little money for developement.
- Some great facilities.
Now the second and fourth thing look not back but the first and third are terrible. What good is a great facility if you don't have the athletes or coaches to back it? You need the infrastructure to begin developing athletes but from there you also need the people to make use of the facilities. So unleashing millions of dollars to build a great facility doesn't go to waste. I'll admit I'm an heir here in Calgary to the Olympic legacy but I heavily rely on my parents to help me pursue my ambitions.
|What's so great about amateur athletes?||TJeanloz|
Feb 20, 2003 10:14 AM
|Why not give $1,000 a month to our hard working truck drivers? Why not give a corporate sponsorship to the guy who makes my coffee in the morning (he's really good at what he does). Why amateur athletes deserve any money at all, and what do the companies get in return?|
|Do you care if your country wins in the Olympics?||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 20, 2003 10:41 AM
|When the Olympics rolls around and people are on the start line, field, wherever getting ready to compete and theres an American in the field... who are you rooting for?
Then like I said before a good system to produce amateur athletes transcends sport. I'd say 1% of the athletes will probably ever make it to international competition... but at least 90% will make it to national competition. And through the dedication and commitment it takes to get there you create better people. I know for me competing for years in team sports helped shaped into the person I am. But the 4 years of riding changed me more physically and mentally far greater than anything I ever gained from team sports. You can think I'm as horrible a person as you want but I'm confident if you talk to anyone that really knows me they will have nothing but good things to say. And this is true with a lot of athletes... a good amateur sports system breeds good citizens and not just good athletes.
Feb 20, 2003 10:48 AM
|Do you mean like East Germany, The Soviet Union, and China - which had probably the most sophisticated systems like the one you propose?
When the Olympics roll around I'm usually happy for whoever wins, because I know it's a great achievment in their life.
Feb 20, 2003 10:52 AM
Think of the money that can be poured back into sport through the individual organizations if our money wasn't spend on courting and PAYING for the world's bureaucratic sporting elite to live in a very sophisticated palace in Switzerland.
Or, we could use that money to put on bicycle rodeos for public schools and parks in the summer.
|If anyone want's to sponsor me I'm pretty mediocre :-) (nm)||PEDDLEFOOT|
Feb 20, 2003 9:44 AM
|I'm more mediocre than you (nm)||DougSloan|
Feb 20, 2003 9:45 AM
|You can't be.I'm a Cubs Fan!!!! (nm)||PEDDLEFOOT|
Feb 20, 2003 9:52 AM
Feb 20, 2003 9:35 AM
|So, turn pro!
Life isn't fair, is it? The last thing we need is a government telling people who can sponsor who.
|..turn pro... and move to Belgium or Australia! nm||Spunout|
Feb 20, 2003 10:26 AM
Feb 20, 2003 10:26 AM
|something liberals and conservatives can agree on.
Nick, after a brief yet distinguished RBR career of incoherent arguments, you've truly outdone yourself here. I have no idea what you mean, and if I did I'm pretty sure it would be preposterous.
|Laughed myself out of my chair! LOL||No_sprint|
Feb 20, 2003 1:45 PM
|re: Sponsors and professional sports||wasabekid|
Feb 20, 2003 10:04 AM
|As much as you refuse to recognize it.... Underneath that Capitalist clothing is a Communist trying to emerge.
Feb 20, 2003 10:07 AM
|re: Sponsors and professional sports||No_sprint|
Feb 20, 2003 10:11 AM
|Sponsorship is simple. It's promotion/advertising/placement/image building/marketing, etc. Air Canada pays a promotional fee to get their name on the Saddledome. Then, whenever and wherever a game is on TV, they get exposure. People who have never heard of Air Canada now know the name and just might be inclined to use them when they fly from Hawaii to vactation in Quebec. My team's sponsors are the same, doing the same thing for the same benefit, albeit, in just a tad smaller proportions.
Feb 20, 2003 10:13 AM
|My point is basically this. You can't garnish a professional athletes wages and give to amateur athletes. Thats like taking money from a lawyer and giving it to someone who went through a lot less schooling or dropped out and works in 7-11.
So why not set a precedent and put laws in that teams since they are effectively companies should not be bailed out by corporate sponsors? If a company goes bankrupt it goes bankrupt... most airlines are not doing good but Budweiser isn't jumping in and changing the name to Air Budweiser so why should it be done for sports teams?
Feb 20, 2003 10:19 AM
|Why not? It's their money.|
|Professional sports teams, business or not?||TJeanloz|
Feb 20, 2003 10:20 AM
|I think this part of your argument is where you have a false premise. Professional sports teams, like it or not, are often not run as businesses. Good sports teams transcend business. Our sports teams generally mean more to us than most businesses. If Fidelity (one of Boston's largest employers) went bankrupt and closed, it's employees would feel the brunt, and the community on the whole would be disappointed. If the Red Sox went bankrupt and closed or moved, there would be riots in the streets. Companies sponsor professional sports because people care about them. They don't sponsor amateur sports because practically nobody cares about them. And the people who do care about them (like you parents) sponsor them.|
Feb 20, 2003 10:23 AM
|Well, then how do you expect to be paid? Should my tax dollars pay you $35K per year (if you get carded) while I ride for free? BTW, if you are carded, you are professional. Get over it.
Professional sports is all about corporate sponsorship now. Not since the old days at the Montreal Forum, where 50 cents bought a hockey game ticket and the players were paid a few thousand dollars per year, no pension (like Gordie Howe).
I hate Budweiser, but if they want to take over Air Canada, that would be fantastic! Do you know how much that would save Canadian taxpayers!! Why doesn't someone take over the CCA's elite program, so that we have a labelled national team. Is that not why AUSTRALIA is kicking everyones a$$? The line between trade and national teams is foggy, but it works because they race in Belgium and get paid very well.
|Are you trying to help sports or destroy them? nm||Triphop|
Feb 20, 2003 10:24 AM
|The point is !!!||RCA|
Feb 20, 2003 10:26 AM
|You are a product, you are doing what you want to do and if I think it's cool I will watch .If it's really cool I will pay to watch.If a big company sees me watching they will give you something to keep me watching and they will put their name up so I know who made you look good doing what is is you do. If you become boring I will leave and so will the guy paying you to do what you do . You can't make them stay when the crowds leaving. It's not the Canadian or American way!! Supply and Demand|
|Nick's not boring to watch. He crashes track frames alot ;-) nm||Spunout|
Feb 20, 2003 10:32 AM
|Nick, your point is confused.||djg|
Feb 20, 2003 10:46 AM
|Look, you're probably a good guy and you probably mean well, but you're just off on a rather pointless track. Companies spend their money as they see fit. Capital development, recruiting, advertising, and other marketing endeavors, etc., etc., etc. The sponsorship of sporting events/teams/arenas is not a fundamentally different animal. It's part of how they market themselves. They may make better or worse marketing decisions, but in the end, they are the ones who decide what's worth what.
If you want to write a letter to Ottawa and suggest a reorganization of the Canadian economy . . . well, good luck and more power to ya.
If you want to tax Canadian companies, then . . . hey, they already do that. More taxes? A redistribution of the national budget to favor amateur developmental cyclists? Say, over medical care? I'm not sure that's a great idea but, once again, take out that paper and pen and get to work.
|Nick -- ALL sponsorship money...||brider|
Feb 20, 2003 10:44 AM
|... is a matter of the sponsor buying exposure. You could probably count on one hand the number of companies that sponsor for esoteric reasons. |
So as an amateur, you need to show your potential sponsors what VALUE they will get for their sponsorship dollars. In professional sports, it's well understood what those benefits are -- exposure to a wide audience through larger attendance and TV.
And what do you think would happen to (already too high) ticket prices if corporate sponsorship were pulled?
And, BTW, the best paid professionals are not necessarily the best in the game, they're the ones who can market themselves the best. Case in point -- Dennis Rodman. Sure, he's good enough to be a pro ball player (and could wipe the floor with my ass any day), but he's not the best. He gets the fans to watch the games. That means he's a valuable commodity to sponsors, even if they don't like him personally.
|pouring more gas to the fire...||wasabekid|
Feb 20, 2003 11:18 AM
|"Dennis Rodman...not the best...but he knows how to market himself..."
I agree. But also don't forget, Mario Cipollini, we could all learn a thing or two from him about marketing. :-)))
One of your fans LOL,
|Dennis Rodman was one of top 10 Bball players in world||Continental|
Feb 20, 2003 11:57 AM
|He was a great team player who filled the role of rebounding and defense better than any of his contemperaries. I hate his lifestyle, but his pay was for his performance and in spite of his self promotion.|
|Sponsorship of anything = MARKETING OF THE COMPANY.||mainframe|
Feb 20, 2003 11:29 AM
|I don't buy that "athletes make better citizens" stuff||bcm119|
Feb 20, 2003 12:31 PM
|I was in competitive swimming for 12 years and competed at the national level. I was smart enough to get out of it before I rendered myself useless in the real world. I don't agree that sports make better citizens because in my experience, athletes miss out on alot of life's experiences. They learn discipline, obedience, and that every ounce of hard work is rewarded. They live in an idealistic, sheltered haze. In the real world its not like that, as Nick has pointed out and complained about. What about learning how to think for yourself? Why not learn another skill that you can put to use while contributing to society, and then race bikes in your spare time, and with your own money?|
|What event do you want to do in the Olympics?||Raven1911|
Feb 20, 2003 12:48 PM
You are a track sprinter??? Do you want to go to the olympics in track sprinting? I want to get more info on technique and stuff. I have a lot of info from U.S. training but am interested in how Canadians train for track sprinting. I'm not sure but give me some info. I am very interested in starting to track cycle. One of my good friends is an ex olympian for the U.S. He rode with Marty Nothstein at the olympics in Sydney. I have received a lot of help from him on tech and training but I just want to get more information on different training techniques, especially from Canada, Germany, and Australia as it seems these countries do best in track sprinting. Let me know,
|Mental gymnastics. nm||OldEdScott|
Feb 20, 2003 1:07 PM
|self promotion, attention getting (nm)||sickofit|
Feb 20, 2003 1:32 PM