Feb 17, 2003 7:50 AM
|I was wondering...if Lance simply came out in an interview wherever and answered his views on the pending Iraq war and said he's against it (based on unilateral action of US and without UN approval) would either you or anyone you know have a negative attitude towards Lance?
Also, please don't express your personal views on the war issue...I'm just curious about this query.
Feb 17, 2003 7:56 AM
|Not at all. It's his opinion, and he's entitled to it. But ask someone in Bahgdad!|
|Nope. Don't let one crazy Texan ruin it for the rest :)nm||Spunout|
Feb 17, 2003 8:01 AM
|unfortunately one crazy texan ruinned it for all of us :( nm||cyclopathic|
Feb 18, 2003 3:51 AM
|Lance on Iraq...||philippec|
Feb 17, 2003 8:15 AM
|Lance on Iraq and Bush from cyclingnews.com:
"As a man who knows and has supported Bush, having met him "around twenty times", Armstrong had this to say about his country's president. "Bush is a hard man, cleverer than people think, but he is sometimes pretty rough in his dialogue. Bush is no banker from New York, and not a well-to-do man from California, he is a cowboy from Texas."
Despite voting for Bush in the last election, Armstrong was definite about one thing. "I am no fan of war. Also I'm no fan of a dictator such as Saddam Hussein and equally not of terrorism. But it is wrong to go to the front without support from the UN and Europe."
Do you speak now as an American living in Europe? "Definitely. If it comes to war, you have to make it with a billion Muslims. It's not sensible for the United States to stand alone in a conflict with such an important part of the world's population. Then every American citizen will also fear for their lives."
Still, a war would not stop Armstrong from riding the Tour de France this year. "It would give me extra headaches, but it would not prevent me from riding the Tour," he said...."
-- respect, Lance!
|Lance on Iraq...||harry hall|
Feb 18, 2003 9:04 AM
|Agree, Philippe! Also, since LA doesn't seem like a guy who is going to take a quiet, unchallenging, anonymous life after retiring from cycling, I would not be surprised if politics is one of his possible career paths later in his life.|
|He's an athlete, not a diplomat. Who cares what he thinks?||cory|
Feb 17, 2003 8:32 AM
|I admire Lance extravagantly--a member of my family had the same type of cancer, and I know how hard it is to come back from that, plus he's just a hell of a rider to begin with. But asking him for his opinion on international relations doesn't make any more sense than asking Madonna or Charles Barkley. Or, for that matter, asking Colin Powell for training advice: It just ain't what they do.|
|I don't care||Leroy|
Feb 17, 2003 8:36 AM
|what LA thinks about Bush, foreign policy, or the impending war against Iraq. I just want him to win the next TdF. Go Tex !!|
|Celebrities and Politics||TSuprano|
Feb 17, 2003 9:11 AM
|How you doin? When it comes to politics, most celebrities would do themselves a favor if they would just shut up and not share with us their opinions. I for one am sick of the Barbara Steisand and Alec Baldwins of the world.|
|Celebrities and Politics||ctisevn|
Feb 17, 2003 12:01 PM
|without straying too far off topic, I thought you might appreciate a quote from Teddy Roosevelt that addresses your apparent desire to silence dissent.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
|Like when Alac Baldwin said someone should shoot Charleston Hest||hycobob|
Feb 17, 2003 2:43 PM
|We shouldn't censor speech but maybe more of the idiots should be made aware that there are consequenses to their free speech! Such as our right to Freedom and happiness. I'm glad that some producer in Hollywood stuck to HIS guns by not hiring Sean Penn.|
|Chuck shoots himself in the foot whenever he prattles on about..||serbski|
Feb 17, 2003 5:04 PM
|the right to bear arms. Mr.Heston has been retired for so long that his political opinions will not influence his career which, as far as I can tell, consists of showing up and speaking at NRA rallies! Whether or not you agree with Mr.Penn, he at least voiced an opinion when he actually had something to lose career-wise. Just a thought...|
|Chuck shoots himself in the foot whenever he prattles on about..||ctisevn|
Feb 17, 2003 7:23 PM
|precisely. mr heston is quoted as blaming the US gun violence problem on "mixed ethnicity". while the man most certainly should not be shot, he should be somewhere quiet and away from access to a soap box with which to preach his nonsensical ramblings. additionally, kudos indeed to mr penn for risking his professional stature to voice his valid opinion. As a citizen not afflicted with alzheimers, as mr heston sadly is, who is a seemingly mentally healthy individual his opinions are valid and should be voiced and heard.|
|Except now Sean is whining....||Stinky Hippie|
Feb 17, 2003 9:26 PM
|...that his recent antics in Iraq lost him a role in an upcoming film.
Doesn't seem too gutsy to me.
Feel the gin
|Except now Sean is whining....||TSuprano|
Feb 18, 2003 4:52 AM
|How you doin? Every member of our armed services volunteered knowing the risk. What risk does Sean Penn take? He loses a role while speaking out against the job these people do? These men and women who serve are putting their lives on the line to protect the very same free speech that Sean Penn celebrates each day.|
|Armed services aren't protecting free speech in Iraq...||curtybirdychopper|
Feb 18, 2003 4:14 PM
|In principle you are correct supran, but nobody is protecting free speech in iraq.|
|Armed services aren't protecting free speech in Iraq...||TSuprano|
Feb 18, 2003 4:43 PM
|How you doin? First of all, one of our objectives is to establish a democracy in Iraq. Second of all, nuclear and chemical weapons are a threat to the American way of life.|
|Charlton Heston has been speaking out in support of...||Matno|
Feb 17, 2003 9:53 PM
|...2nd Amendment rights much longer than most people think. Certainly early enough to "influence his career." We'd be a lot better off if more of the "celebrity causes" in this country were as well thought out as his. Very few of Hollywood's big mouths have any sort of reason behind their ranting. Most of them are WAY off the mark (in other words, they ignore facts and further lies with their nonsensical ramblings). Sean Penn is a great example of that. So are Susan Sarandon, Alec Baldwin, and a host of others whose views are radically different from the public at large (just like the rest of "the media"). Sadly, our public is so ignorant these days (thanks to our "fabulous" public education system) that these people actually do a very goo djob of making people think they are right. It's really quite pitiful.|
|Charlton Heston has been speaking out in support of...||TSuprano|
Feb 18, 2003 4:55 AM
|How you doin? Few people could have said it better. Kudos! You are right, Heston speaks up to protect our rights, while most of those Hollywood Boobs would just as soon see our rights taken away so they can try to protect something they know so little about.|
|You have obviously not heard Mr.Heston speak lately...||serbski|
Feb 18, 2003 5:54 PM
|as he cannot make a good case for handgun ownership. I will grant that he does have Alzhiemer's(sp?) Disease, which is a horrible thing with which to be struck, but his argument that the United States' "ethnic mix" is at the root of our nation's seemingly inexplicable gun violence borders on the insane. At the very least it is uninformed and racist. By the way, our pathetic education system (which *is* pathetic) has not been helped by a Republican Party that habitually cuts education spending, particularly at the state level. Please, look at the state of education in Texas under Gov.Bush. You are correct though that we *are* ignorant and your average American could probably not find Iraq on a world map and would also tell you that we are going to set up a democratic government in post-Saddam Iraq. That didn't quite happen, despite the Bush Sr. promise, in Kuwait. I'm not a rabid "Hollywood Liberal" just someone who appreciates that *someone* in our nation is questioning such a MOMENTOUS move as waging war...|
Feb 19, 2003 9:20 AM
|if you look at the numbers, you'll see that his "ethnic mix" argument, while totally politically incorrect, is spot on. Where do most handgun crimes occur? Who commits them? A significant number of them (particularly in urban centers) are committed by gang members. So far, gangs in this country have been predominantly composed of ethnic minorities - in fact, they are often groups with a common background. You will find few mixed ethnicity gangs where I live (the Bronx). If the truth borders on insanity, I'd hate to see where the lies propagated by anti-gun groups fall on the scale.
By the way, I went to public schools in Texas, and while they did indeed suck, at the time they were some of the best in the nation. Funding has very little to do with the quality of education. Federal control and poor interpretations of the Constitution have done MUCH more damage than a lack of funds EVER could.
Don't take this to mean that I support Bush's war effort. I fully agree that Iraq is a threat to us, but I think it is absolutely wrong to take "pre-emptive measures" against another country. "Terrorism is different" notwithstanding, I think we should prepare ourselves for an attack FROM Iraq, and if/when it happens, THEN wipe them out. One of the worst changes that has occurred in the world in the last few decades is that the media seems to think that we should be able to wage a war without civilian casualties. War is sad, but sacrificing our own soldiers in a long, drawn out battle when a massive and total strike would save many of our own lives is just plain wrong. Our gov't should be primarily concerned with protecting American lives as much as possible. If that is possible without killing anyone else, GREAT. If not, sacrificing our own unnecessarily is simply not an option.
Good luck convincing Bush of that though. He really needs to turn the attention away from the economy right now if he wants to get reelected (and you can bet that he does). It's too bad really, since the poor economy right now has very little to do with anything he did and a lot to do with the artificial stimulation of the stock market under the previous administration. People just don't seem to get it.
|Celebrities and Politics||TSuprano|
Feb 17, 2003 3:44 PM
|How you doin? I am not saying that celebrities shouldn't have opinions, but most of them make asses out of themselves when they do so. Lance doesn't do interviews to discuss politics. He does it to tell people about riding his bike. Sure they crossed over, but he needn't go much further than say that war wouldn't change is tour plans. Barbara Steisand said that she would leave the country if Bush was elected. Unfortunately, she didn't live up to her promise, and we still have to see her ugly snout on tv making such outlandish comments.|
|Makes sense to me. The mystery is not that celebrities||djg|
Feb 18, 2003 7:10 AM
|spout off on political topics (or anything else), the mystery is that people listen. Ok, so maybe "mystery" is the wrong word . . .|
|Celebrities and Politics||BR7288|
Feb 22, 2003 1:09 AM
|Seems to me this response missed the point. No one mentioned anything about silencing dissent, but the opinions of athletes and actors on matters of policy and geo-politics are as worthwhile as the opinions of diplomats and policy makers on matters about whether a movie scene would be improved by a dramatic pause or when is the best time to attack on a climb. Everyone is free to express an opinion. We should be more judicious in placing weight on the opinions of the less informed.
The idea that Lance is "more qualified to speak to the issue of international relations than most in DC" because "[h]e's an american, texan at that, living in France the life of an iconic celebrity," seems to me to be pretty close to as wrong as wrong can be. Which part makes him more qualified? That he lives the life of an iconic celebrity? This usually causes one to be less grounded, not more, in matters of the real world. That he's an American living in France? American expatriates live in most of the world's nations, and while their experiences qualify them to render advice on the culture of the land in which they live or where one could find a comfortable bed and a good meal, it does not make them qualified to render good and actionable advice on strategic geopolitics.
Of course people are free to offer their opinion. Of course these opinions should not be stifled (noting that ignoring or even castigating an opinion is not stifling it, for freedom of speech includes the right to criticize speech with which one disagrees). But it would be far more positive if, when asked to offer an opinion about a matter that exceeds an individuals' depth of knowledge or expertise, the individual responded, "That's a bit out of my field of expertise. I haven't fully studied these issues. I haven't done the policy work or read the papers of the experts or gamed the situation by valuing the outcomes, assessing the probability of those outcomes occurring, and accounting for the inherent uncertainty in a satisfactory way. How about I give you an opinion about something in which I am an expert."
Feb 17, 2003 9:12 AM
|It is too bad that more publicized athletes and those who get more press than Lance(in the USA) cannot and will not carry themselves like Lance. I do not care what lance's view of the war or his view of the President but I like the way he handles his answers.|
|re: Hating Lance...||ctisevn|
Feb 17, 2003 9:32 AM
|Lance is free to express his opinions as he chooses. I, personally, find him enlightened and respect his perspective. Regardless of anyones resume though, they should not be marginalized for expressing a differing opinion from that which is commonly held. To request that celebrities, athletes, or anyone else be mute on this issue is absurd. In Armstrong's case, I would argue that he's more qualified to speak to the issue of international relations than most in DC. He's an american, texan at that, living in France the life of an iconic celebrity. He lives international relations every day. We should all spend more time listening and less trying to silence the voices of those with whom we disagree.|
|re: Hating Lance...||LinuxDude|
Feb 17, 2003 7:58 PM
|Lance lives in western Texas, not France||cyclopathic|
Feb 18, 2003 3:47 AM
|and yes he has second home in Spain. he moved out of France so local police could not rade his home any time of the day.|
|Lance lives in western Texas, not France||53T|
Feb 18, 2003 6:47 AM
|Austin is not exactly West Texas. My appologies if you are a US citizen, you are excused from knowing any geography.|
|he moved out of Austin||cyclopathic|
Feb 18, 2003 7:21 AM
|to Davis mnts some time back. Now geography quiz: where on earth are Davis mnts? ;)|
|he moved out of Austin---WRONG||teoteoteo|
Feb 18, 2003 7:47 AM
|He lives in Austin. He has no residence in Davis Mtns. He owns 1 house in Austin proper and has 2 nice pieces of land nearby. The largest is Southwest of Austin (Maybe 30-40 miles) and is over 200 acres the other piece is a bit closer to Austin and about 50 acres.
He did move about a month an a half ago but it was only about 2 blocks.
|It's all in the delivery....||Stinky Hippie|
Feb 17, 2003 10:14 PM
|...If Lance spouted his views with the same vitriol of a Baldwin or a Sarandon, and tried to draw parallels between Sadaam and Dubya, I'd be rooting for Beloki come July. Otherwise, I could care less. ( Though I must say, I am saddened that Lance would prefer we defer to that global tea party they call the UN)
feel the gin
|re: Hating Lance...||Juniorgriff|
Feb 18, 2003 9:00 AM
|I don't really care what LA thinks about the war, he is entitled to his opinion. I just want him to go to Europe in 4 months and kick some more ass! Its time to ride!|
|re: Hating Lance...||rocketritch|
Feb 18, 2003 1:40 PM
|people put too much significans on the thouths of celebrities.Make your own dicisions based on what you think and let it go at that.|| |