|Fighting a speeding ticket to spend the money on bike parts||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 11, 2003 11:42 AM
|So anyway I was coming from teaching a class onto a major road that is normally 80 km/h but there has been some construction for the last while. So going one way it was 80 then the way coming home was 60... as I drive onto an on ramp to get onto the road there were 2 signs on either side of the 3 lane road (no constuction signs) stating the speed limit which I missed since 1) I wasn't expecting them 2) the one closest to me was camoflauged behind the merge signs and the other one was on the other side. So a cop got me with the laser and pulled me over doing 80 km/h or the regular speed limit.
Now after getting the ticket I promptly got a camera and took photos going both ways on the road documenting how I would have been it coming up then also went farther up the road I was on to see if there were construction and 60 km/h signs which there were and they were much more obvious than the signs coming off the on ramp.
Now my question is how do I fight this other than obviously showing up to court? Do you think I have a good chance? I took about 20 pictures documenting why I feel it was unfair to ticket me coming from that angle and I should be found not guilty.
|re: Fighting a speeding ticket to spend the money on bike parts||african|
Feb 11, 2003 11:50 AM
|I heard that if you show up in court, the judge asks you how you plead, you plead no contest, then the fine is reduced. Besides the cop might not make it to court, then it gets thrown out.....???
I have never been to court, and have only ever got 2 speeding tickets (I paid both) so I don't speak from experience at all.
Feb 11, 2003 12:09 PM
|First the disclaimers: I am a US lawyer. I am not licensed to practice law in the Province of Alberta or anywhere else in Canada. You should seek licensed, local counsel for legal advice.
Now, my experience: My traffic court experience has been limited to my representing one "client" -- me. I have found that most traffic court judges operate more by common sense than by the rule of law. Traffic court judges see hundreds of cases per week and have heard every excuse known to man. They can smell bullshit a mile away. It has been my observation while waiting for my own traffic trials, that the defedants who bullshit get larger penalties than those who tell the truth (even if the truth is harmful). Plus, I assume that lying under oath (perjury) is a crime in Canada. Depending upon the severity of the penalty, it very well may be worth your while to hire an attorney. But, if the offense is minor, the cost of an attorney may be more than the cost of the fine. Before you make this decision, be sure that you know all of the collateral costs of losing (e.g., will you car insurance rates increase if you lose?). If you do not hire an attorney, I strongly would recommend that you visit the court in which your speeding ticket will be heard a day or two in advance of your trial and observe the court session for an hour or two. You then will be able to get a feel for how the judge runs his or her court and the type of evidence and/or argument that will be persuasive.
Feb 11, 2003 12:22 PM
|if you offer to sell them a slightly used track frame that was damaged in "shipment" at a discount they will give you a break.
But I hope not.
I'm noticing a trend here.
Feb 11, 2003 12:28 PM
|Greg... seriously %^&$ off.
Feb 11, 2003 12:48 PM
|I just like to hassle you. :0)|
|First ticket, eh???||biknben|
Feb 11, 2003 12:43 PM
|Judges love to reem kids who come in thinking they are invinceable. Unless that speed limit sign was completely obscured by the merge sign, I'd save face and just pay the fine.
You could go to court and hope for a reduction in the charge. The offense doesn't sound too bad so there is little hope for a reduction.
|Egh I've gotten one other ticket||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 11, 2003 12:47 PM
|But it was completely my fault since I was going 75 in a zone that I knew was 50 after blasting through a stop sign. This time I was merging onto a major road so my first instinct was to come up to the speed I anticipated the cars on the road were going to at... which I thought would be 80.
Feb 11, 2003 1:22 PM
|I watched a guy try to get off on a ticket by trying to claim the sign was obscured. He brought photos. Although I didn't see the photos, the judge said they were taken at a different angle than than the drivers line of sight. The judge called his bluff and gave him an even stiffer fine.
If you're photos prove that the sign is obscured as you approached AND as you drove by you may have a case. There may have been other signs like, "Construction Ahead", etc. which should have alerted you to slow down and be more attentive. Construction zone violations have extra importance because of the danger to workers.
Feb 11, 2003 2:40 PM
|They had construction signs about a 1/4 mile up the road from where I merged on and a slow down to 60 sign + 60 sign... but where I merged on there were 2 relatively small fairly hard to see signs that I would have to be paying a lot of attention to see and since there were no construction signs I wasn't paying as much attention as I would have been in a marked construction zone.
|I don't think I'd go into traffic court...||brider|
Feb 11, 2003 2:50 PM
|and make ANY references to lapses in attention. Just go in and state your case. You have your evidence, and a plausible story. The worst thing that will happen (if you tell it straight) is you pay the whole fine. No worse off than you are now.|
|don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine||ColnagoFE|
Feb 11, 2003 12:55 PM
|Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but show up in court and tell your story...you'll get a better deal than just paying the fine, but don't expect to get off entirely.|
|don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine||pa rider|
Feb 11, 2003 3:57 PM
|Hey Nick. If you take it to court use it as a learning experience man. I went one time and the judge busted me about the only way he would throw it out is if the ticket was incorrect (wrong address, car information, route and etc). Make sure everything is correct on the ticket.
Here is pennsylvania it's only $10 more to go to court at the JP. My boss goes to court for parking tickets because the cops never show up in court. If you didn't have a ticket for along time (say ten years) the judge may give you a warning.
I heard cases where the state police makes a deal with you. I know people pay the fine, but don't get any points on their record. Do they do that out your way. They do that here because it's a state cop not a local cop. Pennsylvania state police don't make money for the local community like munuciple cops thats why they give more breaks (there salary is paid by the tax payers of the commonwealth).
Never hurts going to court and plead bargain. I never got tickets from state cops, but the local redneck cops. It takes 3 years without a ticket to have an insurance company consider you a safe driver. They do 5 year abstracts on your record to see what's you driving habits.
Here in PA the first year you go without a ticket you lose 3 points and then its one point each year after that. For example; 5 points will take three years to get off your record. If you get 6 points in a one year period the judge will make you take driving course or you'll lose your license. Did you say you had a previous ticket? You may end up in court anyways if your laws are the same as mine.
|Don't pay it||Bike Nut|
Feb 11, 2003 2:39 PM
|Aren't you moving to Australia in a few weeks anyway? Just skip out on the ticket. You sound like you aren't responsible anyway.|
Feb 11, 2003 2:42 PM
|1) Its my parents insurance.
2) Its my parents car.
3) I'm not moving for good.
4) Where do you get off saying I don't sound responsible when you don't even know who I am?
|Excuse by you||Bike Nut|
Feb 11, 2003 5:26 PM
|It seems your previous posts were reasons why you weren't responsible; were they not? I wasn't saying you were irresponsible as you were when you were selling a crash damaged frame on e-Bay with a bogus story. Oh, I know you corrected it after you were taken to task, but, you then whined when you didn't get the ridiculous price you expected. You are right, I don't know you, I only know the ethical you from what you post. Is there a difference?|
|You are an irresponsible twit!!||Rusty McNasty|
Feb 11, 2003 5:22 PM
|Hey, buddy, GROW UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS!! You can't go running to mommy anymore!
BTW, your spin class music sucks, too! I hope everybody hates you by now. I know the rest of us do....
|Your my favourite fan||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 11, 2003 8:05 PM
|I love you Rusty!|
|This is ridiculous....||empacher6seat|
Feb 11, 2003 10:11 PM
|Bike Nut and Rusty.... you guys have just epitomized everything I don't like about this board.
Rusty, if you're looking to pick a fight, have some class and don't do it on a message board.
Bike Nut, Nick is asking for advice, not judgement on his ethics. If Nick, or anyone, in person is the exact way you imagine them from their posts, then you must be a total ass, much like your last reply indicates!
Lets try to stick to the topic, shall we?
Nick, I would just go to court and explain your case. Worst case scenerio, you pay the whole fine. Who knows, the cop might not even show. There was an article in the paper here about a guy who's been fighting a $14 parking ticket for like 2 years! The fine was lowered to $5 dollars and apparently he still hasn't payed it!
|there's a thing we have here||MJ|
Feb 12, 2003 1:09 AM
|called the non-cycling discussion board - try and use it|
|I need the money to finance my BIKE trip... (nm)||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 12, 2003 10:32 AM
|Oh brother! (nm)||mickey-mac|
Feb 12, 2003 9:05 PM
Feb 13, 2003 5:35 AM
|you are an idiot who is crzaed for attention - are you still taking your Ritalin?
your wrecked bikes on ebay, endless self-promotion, spin class music requests, and semi-literate posts - and now attempts to avoid the law - are amusing in a rubbernecking sort of way
finance your bike trip my ass - use the non-cycling board moron - it's simple
Feb 13, 2003 8:22 AM
|Its amazing what people say on the internet that they wouldn't say in real life. I guess when you can hide behind a computer screen its easy.
|you're only assuming||MJ|
Feb 13, 2003 11:56 AM
|that I wouldn't say any of this to you in real life
use the non-cycling board for your inane posts
Feb 12, 2003 4:23 AM
|If it's your first ticket in the state (you mentioned you got one before) you can ask for PBJ-Probation before Judgement. Usually requested by first time offenders, it allows for a probationary period in which another offense will re-activate the original charges or something like that. You might have something like this in your state, wouldn't hurt to check it out.
Fighting the charges can be very frustrating. From my experience, pictures and excuses rarely work. Traffic court judges have heard and seen damn near everything and will always take the side of the officer. Then there is the "idiot" factor to take into consideration, in which said idiot pisses the judge off as you pray mightily that you are not the next case called.
If you still decide to pursue the matter then request that the officer produce the calibration records of the laser/radar equipment used and his/her certification for the use of that equipment. I believe that you must request this during the deposition stage (I'm not an attorney just a fellow leadfoot). It's a real pain in the @ss, and may not be worth the price of the ticket. Also show up early and talk to the DA/SA or whatever they may be called. As I said before check your local and state laws prior to doing anything.
|A word of advice on pictures||Mel Erickson|
Feb 12, 2003 7:18 AM
|Don't use them. They'll only work against you. This isn't Perry Mason. You may think the pictures will back up your case but in all likelyhood they'll simply supply evidence for the prosecuting attorney.
You may want to try and contest the ticket but consider this. What are the costs for contesting, not just in dollars but also your time and stress? Weigh this cost against what you might save. That's where going to court a week or two before your date to guage the likelyhood of receiving a reduced fine is good advice. My guess is you might break even financially, if you're lucky, but also waste your time and stress yourself out. My advice, pay the ticket and be done with it.
|It's a point of honor: If you break the law, you pay the fine||Silverback|
Feb 12, 2003 8:15 PM
|FWIW, I'd never fight a ticket I deserved. I've had a bunch of them, nearly all for not-very-dangerous things like going 75 or 80 on a 65mph Interstate at 3 in the morning. I'd never fight one like that--you know the risk when you make the decision, and if you get caught, you have no complaint.
I've also had two I didn't think I deserved, and fought both of those. Won one, lost one.
|Sometimes you don't have a fighting chance though||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Feb 12, 2003 9:25 PM
|In my 3 or so years of driving I've gotten 3 tickets. A speeding ticket for goin 75 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. Nothing to debate I was speeding in a residential area. One for blowing a stop sign. Nothing to debate... it was 2 in the morning but I just rolled through.
This one however was different. They had 2 little signs that said 60 km/h coming off a merge ramp onto a road that is normally 80/h. And to add insult to injury was 80 km/h tonight. So I see the merge and bring my speed up to 84 km/h and then get pulled over.
I like to think I choose my battles carefully and even though I can't win the war against getting tickets since most of the time your at fault I feel this is one I can.
|when you are a self-aggrandizing brainless twit - nm||MJ|
Feb 13, 2003 5:38 AM