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Lawers advice please(13 posts)

Lawers advice pleasescottfromcali
Feb 9, 2003 10:06 PM
Well unfortunately, this post is not related to cycling; it is however related to helping a fellow cyclist (my attempt at making this a cycling related post). A long story short, I am trying to sell a car with numerous "acceleration enhancements". In its current state it will never pass a California smog inspection. I am currently selling it on ebay with the condition that the buyer will handle the smog requirements for their state. A condition of the sale is that the buyer will sign an agreement that will require them to handle the smog issue, and also releasing me, the seller, from street racing or other reckless acts. My question is, would a typed up paper sighed buy the buyer and I hold up in a court if anything was to ever come up of it? I really need the $$ to finish school, help! :)
My very limited knowledge of waivers and stuffPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Feb 9, 2003 10:32 PM
If it will in essence be a waiver then here in Canada at least it will never hold up in court. The thing is your selling a car fully disclosing its fast and may have smog problems... from my standpoint as not being a lawyer your warning the person ahead of time and if they go street racing and hurt themselves its their own fault. Thats like every person who buys a Porsche having to sign a waiver saying they can't do reckless acts incase they got signed... or a gun manufacturer getting a waiver saying the person won't sue someone. Its way beyond your control.

Nick
and you get upset about people giving weight lifting advice - nmMJ
Feb 10, 2003 12:39 AM
I'm speaking from..PODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Feb 10, 2003 12:56 AM
I'm speaking from my experience doing stuff in gyms with waivers and such there. Its like giving someone a dumbbell.. if they hurt themselves with it by throwing it up in the air who's fault is it?

Nick
PodiumBound.ca
maybe if you ask a lawyer you can find out - nmMJ
Feb 10, 2003 5:24 AM
Hello? EPA??Rusty McNasty
Feb 10, 2003 5:11 AM
What a moron! Not only did you break federal law by modifying the thing, but you are going to sign a statement attesting to the fact? Dou you WANT to go to prison?
Listen, buddy, the way that car is now, the only way you can legally sell it is as a track-only racecar. Signing a piece of paper saying that it's not legal is only going to put your @$$ on the line. Either convert it back, or sit on it. You can't sell it the way it is.
Live and learn, bucko!
Ummm, no.jtolleson
Feb 10, 2003 6:56 AM
Emissions regulation is governed by state law, all having different standards. In some states (such as my former home Az) the standards even vary from county-to-county (ie., emissions standards are more stringent on vehicles registered in Maricopa County).

There is no "federal law" broken by having a vehicle out of emissions compliance. The only "penalty" is the inability to register it (some places) which carries with it a corollary "can't drive an unregistered vehicle" problem.

Vehicles that won't pass emissions are sold ALL THE TIME, either to be taken to a jurisdiction where they CAN be registered (or a waiver obtained) or sold for parts. In most states, a vehicle does not need to be street legal to be sold.
problemsDougSloan
Feb 10, 2003 7:17 AM
I think California law requires the seller to get the smog. I don't think that obligation can be transferred or waived; an attempt to do so in a contract might be void (not sure, this is off the top of my head).

In other states you might get away with this. However, California is very strict. Do legally sell this car, or actually for the buyer to register this car, in California, it may have to be registered as "off road" only or something like that.

My advice, which is more personal than legal, is to sell the car to someone in another state, and fully disclose the changes to the car.

For all the environmentalists out there, just because parts on a car might not be certified smog legal, that does not necessarily mean it pollutes more. Sometimes the mods can actually make it cleaner burning. Turbos can be can example. Some turbos cause the exhaust to be cleaner.

I would either sell in another state, after checking it's laws, or return the car to factory condition and then sell, and include a box of parts along with it.

Doug
Caveat Empour...did I spell that right?....merckx56
Feb 10, 2003 7:17 AM
Simply state that the vehivle will most likely NOT pass vehicle smog inspection in Cali. Many state require inspections, while many do not. A certain assumption of risk is assumed when buying something on Ebay. I just bought a car on Ebay and was perfectly happy with the deal, even though the car needs about $1000 worth of work.
When you write up the sales contract, add a section about the enhancements and state that the buyer will not hold you responsible/liable for any future occurances with the vehicle. Have him/her sign or initial that section along with the entire sales contract. Once you explain what has been done to the vehicle, the problems that it may or may not create and get them to sign off on it, you are released from liability.
re: Lawers advice pleaseRaven1911
Feb 10, 2003 7:21 AM
I just went through this with my wifes car. Anyone buying the car will most likely have to have a loan from a bank. That bank will require their clients to have the car smogged before purchase. It will not be your responsibility to get it smogged though. Do you still have the stock parts to maybe help get it back to smog legal? Anyway, it will more than likely have to be smogged before the sale. It is up to you to tell the purchaser that it will be his responsibility to get the car back to smog legal. I am not a lawyer, but play one on this board:)

Raven
Thank you to all who replied with GOOD advicescottfromcali
Feb 10, 2003 8:25 AM
its way too much work to get it back to stock condition, if you are familiar with engines a turbo kit is typically a big job to take off/on. I put it on ebay with the sole purpose of selling it out of state, there is a big note on the page to california bidders explaining the smog problems. There are a few ways around the smog in california but I'd rather not discuss them here;)

I didnt break federal by modifiying the car, some california smog laws, probably.
Live and learn bucko.
I know, I'am.
I'll be the first to admit it was a stupid teenage mistake, definently the last time I will be seriously modifiying the car.
Won't hold water in California...SnowBlind
Feb 10, 2003 8:20 AM
you need to have a CURRENT (90 days) smog cert BEFORE you sell it to anyone else in California.

The only thing you might be able to do (in California) is get a "non-oprative" registration for it, but they would have to tow it off. The fact that you sold in in a "non opertative" condition would put the onus on them to make it "operative".

The other suit issue stuff is hard to do, you can always bring suit, you just won't win.
Smog Certificate is Seller's responsibility in CAoutofthesaddle
Feb 10, 2003 8:24 AM
I think that Doug Sloan is correct. It is technically the seller's responsibility in California to obtain the smog certificate on transfer. I don't believe that an agreement to pass that responsibility to the buyer will be enforceable. In practice I think that buyers are the ones that get the smog certificates when the buy a car and its generally not a big deal. Hoever, in your case if the car won't pass and the cost of repairs turns out to be more than the buyer will pay, you may end with a choice of either: (i) paying for the repairs, or (ii) getting your car back and refunding the purchase price.