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First crash of the year = yesterday(48 posts)

First crash of the year = yesterdaylonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 9:05 AM
Nothing major, actually pretty comical. Equipment failure, plain and simple. This might teach me better than to put stupid-light bits on a 'cross bike, then use the 'cross bike for the purpose it was intended. The seat clamp on my USE Alien abruptly gave way about 10 minutes into what was supposed to be a 90 minute lunch ride, and I went straight down on my bum, like what happens when you loop out of a wheelie. I guess the strain of all those remounts, rocky rides and waterbars under my gluteus maximus (emphasis on max) finally did it in.

My amazing Kermit green wooly winter tights did an amazing job of cushioning the blow, so no harm done however I'm sure the passerby on CO Rt. 52 were entertained.

The sad part is I don't have a replacement post immediately available. To get my intended training in yesterday, I was forced to do a 2-hour Spinning class instead. I have my roadie today, but it's still snowing, so I might actually be forced to break out the trainer for the first time this season. ;-)
you are going to have to stop doing thatDougSloan
Feb 5, 2003 9:10 AM
Glad you are ok.

stop doing which....lonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 9:30 AM
Crashing? Wish I could agree on that for certain, but it's a fact of life if you race / ride a lot. My current training volume is in excess of 15 hours/week. I'll accept crashing and not hurting myself any day over the alternatives.

Or were you referring to my veiled taunt at the bored (whoops) board about the fact that I've been riding major mileage outdoors all winter?!?!?!?

I agree with Kristen. It's getting smelly in here. Place needs a good airing out.
Feb 5, 2003 9:40 AM
Yes. Stop crashing. It's not good for you.

I should have put one of these in: ---> :-)

Feb 5, 2003 12:26 PM
I once knew a Doug Sloan who went to Swarthmore - that's not you, is it?
nope nmDougSloan
Feb 5, 2003 12:31 PM
Hey, I have a ?? for you about those junk milesKristin
Feb 5, 2003 9:55 AM
In the junk miles thread, base miles were defined, and I found out what junk miles are not, but I'm still not clear on what junk miles ARE. I don't know if you read this before, but I'm going to use a 12 week training program from Gale Bernhardt to prepare for a century (unchosen as of yet.), and I was wondering if I'm allowed to ride extra hours in a given week. If so, do I have to stay in, like, zone 1? Or is it strickly a no-no to add hours?

Really what I'm asking is: If Tuesdays my day off, but its the most amazing day of the whole entire century and happen to have 6 hours of free time, can I go for a ride?
Feb 5, 2003 10:11 AM
Junk miles (I really don't like that term anyhow) are just an euphemism for unstructured or unplanned riding. My ride to the grocery store on the BMX bike to pick up tortillas a couple days ago certainly qualifies as junk miles. It did have a purpose: to get tortillas without starting the car. However as far as my training plan goes, that 2.5 mile (I played around a bit I do confess) 15-minute ride is invisible because it doesn't add anything.

I would say in the hypothetical Tuesday you propose, absolutely go for it. As long as you are careful not to bonk, ride yourself into an overuse injury, or end up so tired that you can't complete the rest of your training week hours, it's fine - I would probably take a rest day on Wednesday just to be sure.

Think of it this way: If you have a structured diet and like the results, one candy bar or donut every once in a while won't actually cause you to blow up like the Michelin Man or go off your program. The thing you have to watch out for is letting that donut become an excuse for not sticking to your plan afterwards, and unfortunately most of us are pretty good at using this "in for a penny, in for a pound" rationale. As long as you are not bored with the program, it's definitely doing you good. You don't have to absolutely adhere to it every single day.

Ferinstance, my own coach told me yesterday he didn't care if I didn't ride today because the weather is miserable and I hate the trainer. He's measuring the psychological impact vs. the physical in this case. It would do more psychological harm (read: burnout, boredom) to force me to ride the trainer than it would do physical harm for me to miss a day, since I've been pretty much spot-on up to now.
Hey, I have a ?? for you about those junk milesRay Sachs
Feb 5, 2003 10:11 AM

As a non-scientific rider, I'll give you the non-scientific answer. If you're training to race, it helps to pay attention to zones and thresholds and heart rate and all of that other stuff. If you're training for a century though, just ride a lot. Not so much that you start to overtrain and get cranky, but as much as you reasonably can. Ramp the miles up slowly so you don't hurt yourself. Go fast when you feel like it and slow when you need to, but that in-between speed riding that can theoretically mess up racers isn't going to hurt you on a century ride. Also, realize that once you can comfortably do a metric, you're pretty much ready. When I rode my first century, I'd never done anything longer than 65 miles before. I was planning to do the metric that day, but took a wrong turn and found myself on the century route. Decided to try to finish it and to my surprise, didn't have any problems and felt surprisingly good at the end.

If you obsess too much about your training schedule, it'll take all the fun out of it. Ride lots, ride hills, and have fun.

Good advice, Ray.look271
Feb 5, 2003 10:40 AM
For those of us who don't race, those are words of wisdom. I don't own a HRM-why should I? I don't race (yet) and the riding I do is purely for enjoyment/excercise. No sense in making it too hard. If I feel good, I ride harder (making sure not to go so hard as to cause injury) and when I don't feel that good, I dial it back and take it easy. Just up the mileage gradually and a century will be a breeze.....
for me centuries dont take all that much specific prepColnagoFE
Feb 5, 2003 10:13 AM
as long as I can do a typical 60 mile ride with no major effort at a decent pace about a week before the event, most centuries are a piece of cake. just make sure you are putting in the miles and you'll be fine. i even done centuries where i might only get in a couple of 1-2 hour rides on the weekends leading up to it and a smattering of Spinning classes during the week and the century was no problem. now if your goal is to finish under 5 hours or do a century every weekend you might want to plan your training a bit more than this.
guys, I think I see what Kristen is doing herelonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 10:20 AM
I agree, century riding doesn't take all that much prep, as Ray Sachs put it; just ride a lot.

However, some of us prefer to quantify that "ride a lot" a little more. Kristen has already experienced the pitfalls of "just riding a lot" without a plan: overuse injuries, illness, the works. It's actually easier for a less fit person to become "overtrained" than it is for an elite athlete, as the beginner's body doesn't have the deep base of the more experienced rider, so their system just isn't used to the demands of an intense workout. I can tell you, 100 miles is still a pretty intense workout, regardless of the pace you ride it at.

I think what Kristen is trying to do is apply a little structure to her tendency to be ultra motivated, go at it full-bore and overdo it. Am I on the right track here?

I say this because I went through the same stuff. It took good mentoring and someone putting me on a structured plan before I actually stopped riding myself into various training potholes every season.
Fair enough...Ray Sachs
Feb 5, 2003 10:37 AM
Hard for me to relate because being "over motivated" is not a problem I'm familiar with :)

So bottom line for Kristin: ride as much as you comfortably can, but LISTEN TO YOUR BODY (whether in a structured program or not). Some days you just can't go hard, so don't - enjoy the easy pace. Some days you can't go anything but hard - enjoy those cause they don't happen that often and damn they're fun! Most are somewhere in between with bits of each - enjoy those too. Don't be afraid to take a day or more off (as LFR said earlier). And oh yeah, take it pretty easy the week before the event and pace yourself on the big day - don't spend the whole paycheck in the first 50-70 miles.

I live like you talk, but it's not for everybody.dzrider
Feb 5, 2003 11:15 AM
The only thing I count is the number of days I run or ride or get some form of aerobic exercise. I shoot for 6 days a week and except for injury wind up with 312 days most every year. I do what the weather and my spirit dictate without any charts, heart rate monitor or computer on my bike. I don't, however, recommend this. Here's why.

Planning and structure really help most people get their workouts done. Seeing each day's work as a piece of the plan that will help them meet their goal makes it easier to get out on the road and gives momentum that really helps on the tough days. It also helps the overachievers from becoming obssessed with "high quality" workouts every day.
Feb 5, 2003 12:02 PM
I am actually a really lazy person. Were it not for the fact I have my schedule programmed into my Outlook, not only would I not ride daily, I probably would ride very little. Instead, I would use wintertime as an excuse to get horribly fat and way out of shape to the point at which I am disgusted with myself. On the very first nice day come spring, I would then go out on a 5-hour hard ride, bonk, hurt myself, get bronchitis and be laid up for the next 2 months.

Sound familiar?
Did you start riding with a good aerobic base?Kristin
Feb 5, 2003 12:58 PM
Or did you start like me? Out of shape and comfy on my sofa.
depends on when you are referring tolonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 1:26 PM
I started out riding a bicycle some fifteen years ago from an entirely non-athletic background. I was one of those clumsy kids who is horrible at ball-and-stick sports. I have phenomenal genetics on my side, lemme tell you. I come from a family that could be poster children for the Ugly American Lifestyle. They all smoke, they all drink, they all drive a half-block to the post office in massively oversized vehicles, they all weigh over 200# including the women, they all consider sugar, starch, chocolate and Crisco the four major food groups, and they all regard me as some bizarre outsider who must have been sired by the postman.

Right before I started road racing, I was an ultramarathoner. I burned myself out but good doing that, but it did give me a huge base (over 26,000 miles) to start from. Unfortunately, that huge base gave me such a head start on my first racing season, and I had such good results, I thought I could get away with "coasting" all winter and racing into shape after that. Didn't work, and my subsequent seasons increasingly suffered for my lack of maintenance.

I've started several racing seasons from a winter weight of 170#. At 5'4", I don't have to tell you that's not a good thing. As of this morning I am 145#, and it's taken me over 2 years to get there. I don't live like a monk to do this, I just don't put everything and anything edible into my mouth anymore. Subtle things, like we no longer keep chips, bread or milk in the house because these things cause me to go into green-eyed craving overload, then feel physically depressed and lethargic after I eat them.

This year I began putting all this training volume onto a pre-season (October - Jan 1) base of roughly 100 hours' riding, or 1,600 miles. The base off-season mileage was entirely unstructured; open space 'cross rides and long weekend rambles comprised much of it. If I didn't feel like riding, I didn't ride. Mostly I did. My coach is actually a big proponent of the saying "it has to be fun", despite the huge volume in his program.
Now I know you're sickNo_sprint
Feb 5, 2003 2:03 PM
An ultramarathoner? Good lord woman!

I work with one. She does this 24 hour race a couple times a year. 24 hours straight of running, on the road, trails, in the mountains, etc. I think she's lost her mind. She does double marathons for kicks and giggles. I had no idea there are so many marathons. It's like bike racing around here. You can do one every Sat. and Sun. if you like.

Her girlfriend, yes her girlfriend, drives out to her wherever she's at in the car (cellphones are good) and delivers supplies and water during some weekend training. Keeps her company for a few miles. Drives home. LOL

You're too funny. I like the 4 food groups. :)
We may be related--I resemble those genesKristin
Feb 5, 2003 3:31 PM
Except for the marathon bit. I run like Forest Gump with the leg braces and without the endurance. AND I've been blessed with one of those sturdy german figures. Hmmm...pretty.

Somehow I had the impression that you were a sports nut since early childhood. Its good to know that its possible to go from no conditioning to being well trained. Though I'm starting at over 30 which sucks. My body just gives out quicker than it did 10 years ago. Youth is so waisted on the young! Thanks for sharing your story.
ultramarathon cycling, a la Doug Sloanlonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 3:46 PM
UMCA = UltraMarathon Cycling Association. I was a card-carrying member. An ultramarathon is technically any ride of 200+ miles. 12 and 24-hour road races, as well as various brevets and cross-state / cross-continent timed events (RAAM, anyone?) fall into this category. They are all basically brain-numbingly long ITTs.

I'm your typical bike racer, meaning I won't run unless I'm being chased by crazed crack addicts. Actually I do some running for cross-training in winter and cyclocross prep, but it's an ugly sight. 10-minute miles are a stretch for me. Sturdy German figure indeed. I have the physique of a Belgian cabbage farmer.

I was a HORSE nut as a kid, not a sports nut, there's a big difference. You don't have to have an athletic bone in your body to ride hunter jumpers. Just good hands, no fear, tons of patience, considerable pain tolerance and the ability to empathise with prepaleolithic prey species psychology, i.e. a brain the size of a walnut.
brevets and ultramarathon cyclingcyclopathic
Feb 5, 2003 7:00 PM
brevets technically are not UMCA events, they're sponsored by ACP affiliates (RUSA and now defunct IR in US) and they're not races by any means. They're the rides within given time limit; everyone finishing within limit gets a medal. Time limits are pretty generous, even my grandma could do it. Second unlike RAAM qualifiers brevets are draft permitted events/no long ITTs.

Besides 12/24hr races and RAAM qualifiers UMCA has several mileage challenge divisions people compete: century and standard (double). Any official ride over 90mi is qualified as century and any ride over 150mi counts against standard.
generally, thoughDougSloan
Feb 6, 2003 7:14 AM
Generally, brevets (longer ones) are considered by most to be ultra events, even if not UMCA events. Most double centuries are technically not UMCA events, either.

they are good training groundcyclopathic
Feb 6, 2003 7:41 AM
if you're training for 24hr or RAAM qualifier. Cost next to nothing (as low as 10$) and if you're fast you're likely to drop everyone at first checkpoint.

Still most people do not ride it as race. It is more about telling stories, helping others; getting good food and enjoying life. My 600km brevet time had been slow; mostly because I like to take 7hr sleep breaks.
Feb 6, 2003 7:47 AM
Problem for me is time. A brevet is almost exactly what I do when I head out the door for a long training ride. So, why travel a bunch there are back to do what I can do for free without the travel?

Qualifying for PBP is another matter. I guess you gotta do (4 of?) them, then.

are you planning for PBPcyclopathic
Feb 6, 2003 8:47 AM
if you do beware you need to join RUSA and ride brevets in ascending order. According to latest news list you may substitute missed brevet with next longer one, so riding something like 200, 400, 400 and 600 perfectly acceptable.

With respect to travel and fees our brevets run in the same area as I usually ride, plus 12$ isn't much to pay for good cuesheet.
Feb 6, 2003 9:02 AM
Not enough time this year (baby). Thought seriously about it before that, but no way now. That's the one place my wife really would like to go and do her thing while I go do mine, though. She loves Paris. I can't get in shape for it, though. Maybe 2007?

how about mother/mother-in-law?cyclopathic
Feb 6, 2003 9:23 AM
sure you could arrange a week for baby. When I pulled my wife out of family for euro vocation it was the best week she had in a long time. No work no cell phone no babies no worries. Our house got hit by tornado and we only found it a week later ;)

With respect to getting in shape it doesn't take that much, really. Esp for one with ultra endurance background. Time limit is pretty generous my grandma could do it in 90hr. Trainingwise you can get by just riding brevet series plus a few training doubles in between. Last year I've been riding century-double metric-150milers once every 2 weeks and it was more then adequate.
'According to latest news list'JS Haiku Shop
Feb 7, 2003 6:01 AM
please specify. thanks.
Feb 6, 2003 8:15 PM
"I probably would ride very little. Instead, I would use wintertime as an excuse to get horribly fat and way out of shape to the point at which I am disgusted with myself. On the very first nice day come spring, I would then go out on a 5-hour hard ride, bonk, hurt myself, get bronchitis and be laid up for the next 2 months"

Ohmygod! Someone has been looking in their magic mirror at me!!!
I guess it comes down to personalityRay Sachs
Feb 5, 2003 12:10 PM
If I have a structured "program" I'm trying to follow, I start to resent it, burn out, and want to rebel against it (even if its self imposed). I ride my bike, do yoga, toss the kettlebells around (an old Russian form of weights), workout on the rowing machine, etc, because its FUN. If I'm doing any of it too much, it stops being fun, and I ramp back.

But with riding, that almost never happens. I love riding and will do it pert near every chance I get, including commuting, running errands, rec rides, whatever. So I do it whenever I can to whatever level I feel up to. I realize this approach might not work well for racing, but I don't race and plan not to start real soon now, so no issue there. For the majority of recreational riders, I think goals are a double edged sword - they give you something to shoot for, but also make it feel more like work and less like play. Doesn't work for me - may work better for some folks.

BTW, I rarely hit six days a week unless you count a short daily bike commute, but four or five is enough to keep me in pretty good shape.


That's me all over!dzrider
Feb 5, 2003 12:36 PM
I've tried detailed work-out plans, usually at the start of the year, and something like this always happens. It's February and suddenly 55 degrees. I haven't been this warm in months and I'm scheduled for a short recovery run, but I really want to ride for a few hours. I ask myself "How will my life be better if I run for 45 minutes because this paper tells me I'm supposed to?" I never have a good enough answer and go for the ride.

The next day I'm supposed to be recovered, but I'm shot. I can't do the workout I'm scheduled to do that day either and my plan and my discipline are headed for the recycling bag. By the time late Spring comes around I'm finishing my events a little slower than I'd hoped. It's the price I pay to maximize the fun of exercise rather than exercising for the maximum result.
Feb 5, 2003 10:48 AM
I couldn't have said it better myself. That is exactly what I'm trying to do. I know that I don't NEED a program to prepare for a century, but I'd like to try a program this year and then compare how I feel to how I felt after my '01 season. (I didn't ride much in '02 out of fear of injury so that year doesn't count for much.)

Also, I'm going to use this as a sort of "final fit test" for the DeBernardi. I don't know if I'm uncomfortable on the bike because I never eased into riding on it, or if it just doesn't fit. I've seen a few fitters and some say it fits, others say it doesn't. (Though I'm aware that this is a tight geometry--designed for racing.) After doing the program and century, if I still don't like the DB, then I'll sell it in the fall and buy something else.
Feb 5, 2003 10:49 AM
Sorry, I didn't say it. Sorry to hear about your crash. Hope you're not too bummed. har har har... :)
Feb 5, 2003 10:59 AM
Actually I'm more bummed (nice rimshot) that it's going to me some dinero to replace that silly clamp; it's out of warranty. Those awesome Kermit tights JV gave me are still intact, and that's what matters, right? SO claims there is a nice strawberry on my butt, but(t) since I can't really see back there... (things you don't need to know, right?).

By the way, sorry I just realised I keep misspelling your name - it's a Freudian slip on my part as a very good friend of mine from Cincy (she also happens to be an accomplished Cat II racer) spells her first name Kristen.
Hey, I have a ?? for you about those junk milesjaybird
Feb 5, 2003 10:33 AM
If you feel like riding, ride till your little hearts content. Your day off is YOUR day off, do what you want. If nothing else it will help you maintain your sainity. Enjoy the day!

Look at that nut MB1, the kid rides every day and I'm sure he could complete a century without too much trouble. (even if he wasn't drafting Ms. M the whole way) Sorry MB, you were just a good example... I wish I could ride half as much...

Ride on!!!
Thanks for calling me a kid, you made my day!MB1
Feb 5, 2003 11:36 AM
I'll ignore that part about me being a nut.
Hey, I have a ?? for you about those junk milesirregardless
Feb 5, 2003 10:43 AM
Once you are on the training program for a few weeks, you will know better than anyone how much rest you will need before the next big training session. If it's your rest day but you aren't that tired and your muscles are fresh, go for it, assuming you'll have enough left over to do the next workout. For your first century, I think the most important aspect of the whole training program is the long slow distance rides that give you your base endurace. I would just be careful to avoid doing something that will cause you to one of a long slow distance day.
When you race, if you don't crash once in a while...MB1
Feb 5, 2003 9:32 AM
you aren't going fast enough.

Glad you are ok, now quit being foolish about light parts on your crosser!
maybe that explains itDougSloan
Feb 5, 2003 9:56 AM
I guess it's harder to crash when you are off the back and gasping for air up some 15% climb.

So, if I crash more, I'll get faster? :-)

re: First crash of the year = yesterdayNo_sprint
Feb 5, 2003 10:02 AM
Glad you're ok. Wow, that's an impressive amount of training for ya. I couldn't do it in that weather. I'm a full bore fair weather Johnson. All your (well not YOUR's) T-Mobile gals are over this way for a while before their camp in later Feb. Also, your boy JV was at the Boulevard race last weekend. I think he sported a top 3, not entirely sure. Keep it upright and off that glut max!
the parable of eating the elephantlonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 1:02 PM

You've heard the parable of eating the elephant: one teaspoonful at a time. It's a pretty significant training volume, but broken into manageable chunks it's not so bad. Some of it is done as commuter miles (not as much as I'd like). Most is during lunch rides, with some add-ons in the evening on local open space trails. Weekends I ride a lot. My commute is about 35-40 minutes one way, so there's a significant portion, the hard part is keeping the discipline to do quality training miles when commuting.

the weather has been abnormally dry and warm here this winter. This is the first accumulating snow (or precipitation of any description) we've had since Halloween. Mostly it's been sunny and in the 50s and 60s during the day. That's not to say I've not had my fair share of rides in 30 degrees and snow pellets, or 35mph winds blowing me into the ditch, but that can happen any month of the year on the Front Range.

T-Mobile, or at least some of the local gals, usually make their appearance at the first few races here in Boulder / Denver. Often they do the Men's 3 races in addition to trouncing the Women's elite field. Once the real money races start happening (NCS) we don't see them again.

Glad to see JV is enjoying himself. When I saw him at Mt. Evans right after the Tour last summer, he just seemed worn out and depressed. He *loves* bike racing; anyone who's heard some of the stories he tells and the sparkle in his eye knows that. It would be nice to see him really fired up and winning.
re: First crash of the year = yesterdaykoala
Feb 5, 2003 10:28 AM
Glad you are o.k. Seatposts come and go, we get one bod...
re: First crash of the year = yesterdaySkidoo
Feb 5, 2003 11:23 AM
The same type of equipment failure happened to me on the mountain bike. Fortunately, the busted seatpost clamp didn't cause a more serious type of 'equipment failure' on me--mostly just an embarrasing position to be seen riding a bike in.

Good example of junk milage, btw.
yeah, I sorta doubt I'd have actually fallen ...lonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 11:40 AM
had I not been goofing around stretching my triceps (i.e. riding no-hands) when the clamp let go. Imagine my astonishment.

I once had a seatpin binder let go on the MTB mid-race that forced me to finish seatless. I have to confess I'm a weakling because that hurt my legs, a lot.

For all you shop rats out there, from a former shop rat, yes, it's true! An honest-to-god JRA story, because I really was JRA, on pavement even! However, I will not browbeat the shop into warrantying an out-of-warranty part that I'd been using in questionable circumstances, because all of it, including falling off the damn bike, was my stupid fault in the first place. I really don't think USE Alien carbon posts were ever intended for the abuse handed out on a 'cross bike, and I clearly recall thinking that it was a bad idea when I installed the thing but I was too cheap and lazy to go buy another 27.2 post because I didn't have one in the junk box, c'est la vie.
owie owie owiejtolleson
Feb 5, 2003 11:36 AM
breaking a carbon seatpost is one of my dreads.

Was this a JRA happening (other than that you'd previously used the bike on trails)? From your description I couldn't tell if you were on trail or road.
yeah, this actually is a JRA story, and I'm a former wrench!lonefrontranger
Feb 5, 2003 11:46 AM
Who'da thunk it. JRA does happen, it seems.

I was riding up CO 52 from the Diag. Smooth, 10' wide paved shoulder, fortunately for me because it's also busy. As I mentioned above, I sat back to stretch my triceps / shoulders, and whammo! There I was trying to look suave, and instead went flat on my prat. I'm sure the traffic thought it was priceless.

The clamp (cast Al) is what broke. The post itself is just fine.
re: First crash of the year = yesterdayup_hiller
Feb 5, 2003 11:57 AM
Had a similar incident on the MTB a few months back. I was remounting and the clamp bolt went. It made a cool PING!! Landing on my butt wasn't as cool. AT least I wasn't moving at the time. I laughed it off, removed the post and continued riding (standing of course). Didn't make it too far before I pinch-flatted. Quickly discovered that my "spare" tube was a ctually a blown one I had forgotten to patch or replace with a new spare. So I walked a few miles to the car. It was one of those days...
USE on cross bike.... and what you were thinking?cyclopathic
Feb 5, 2003 6:37 PM
take it off! take it off! /and while at it replace that 200g handlebar/100g stem of yours while you still have teeth/