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Why are so many Roadies elitist and arrogant(87 posts)

Why are so many Roadies elitist and arrogantLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 11:18 AM
douchebags like a gentleman in a recent post stated. I have seriously contemplated this and think I have come up with a good gut feeling on why this is so.
Please don't accuse me of this (ie. elitist) because I am abrasive and assertive at times. The last thing I am is elitist and much of why I argue with others is because I sense that arrogance and elitism in others here and in LBS and on the roads.
It seems to me that road cyclists are often intelligent and relativley successful people who gravitate to the sport due to the equipment and gadgets that go along with the cycling. When I bust others balls about being obsessive and need to be precise, I am being toungue and cheek, but also have a serious tone to what I say.
I think sports that especially involve the kind of $$$$ that cycling does attracts more well to do people who are more materialistic in general and obsessive about their possesions (and less humble because they have enjoyed success and these are the people that often like to take credit for their own success). If I did a study I bet I would find a correlation between cyclists and materialism. We are all guilty of this to some degree but I sense and arrogance at the local rides that you don't see on the basketball courts, stickball games, handball courts etc. Don't get me wrong, cockiness because one has skills and is great at the sport is tolerable, but the arrogance that so many cyclists exude stars before they even start to pedal.
You can see the difference in the way Moutain bikers act. It seems superficial and silly to even dissect all of this, but I see the off road guys as generally more laid back. Kind of makes sense if you think about it. Their bikes get hammered and dirty. Their clothes get muddy and beat up while the roadie is more pristine, precise and neat. Kinda like Felix Unger and Oscar Madison. You can imagine who fits which category, obviously. Go to a parking lot where the roadies hang out and you see the BMWs, Audis, Volvos, etc while the Mountain bikers are driving beat up pick up, SUVs etc. A gross generalizationm maybe, or is it???????
I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL ROAD CYCLISTS ARE LIKE THIS, BUT I THINK THERE IS A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF PROFESSIONALS THAT ARE AVID CYCLISTS THAN SAY LABORERS, FACTORY WORKERS FAST FOOD WORKERSS ETC.
Go to any LBS that sells high end bikes and you will see a slew of anal retentive well to do professionals (lawyers, doctors, businessmen etc) that are ssssssssssooooooooooooo obsessive about the equipment, their "look" while they ride etc. That is as much a part of the appeal of the sport (or even more so) than the actual riding.
Now any of you will say I am off base but YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT ABOUT THIS. I have a lot of equipment and bikes myself, but this is a lifelong hobby of mine and a disproportionate amount of my income goes towards this. In reality, I "shouldn't" be spending this kind of cash on cycling but people have hobbies that they enjoy and will spend big $$$$. I am not talking about these people per se as they may or may not be elitist pricks.
I see a difference in the responses I get on the road when I will pass/ be passed or wave to others. The nice leisurely groups with older people always wave and smile while you more "hardcore" racer types give you a quick once over to see what you are riding and whether you are "worthy".
I only buy from one LBS because I found that the competing shops are filled with arrogant/elistist morons who think they are more informed than others (and I am not talking about your standard sales pitch, I give them the need to do that). They lost my business which I used to give them in the past. In fact they even posted their pics on this site (Cyclesport) and got reamed out in the past.
I am not posting this for the sake of starting a war, but this board gets boring at times and needs a little shaking up. I know I serve a purpose and can be a pain i
I'm PissPoor, Work for Minimum Wage And Can Kick Your Butt! hahaBigLeadOutGuy
Feb 2, 2003 11:37 AM
lol
unfortunatly what your saying makes some sense. I run into lots of roadies that when you ride up next to them and say hello they just sneer and dont even acknowledge that you are there. Its kind of funny cause it seems that the slower they are and the more prettier their colnago is, the worse attitude they have! =)
there are plenty of good people out there though, they are just harder to find.
And let the record show that I am a poor blue collar worker barely scraping by and riding whatever bikes my sponsor sends me..thank goodness they take care of me and hook me up with nice stuff.
haha
Let the Flames Begin =)

ride safe!!!
I'm PissPoor, Work for Minimum Wage And Can Kick Your Butt! hahaLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 12:53 PM
You see, I would never just sneer and not acknowledge another rider, but it happens all the time. I can totally see the satisfaction you get when you blow pass them and they cannot keep up.
Like I said, when someone has the skills and they are cocky about their abilities, I can accept that. Growing up playing in the playgrounds, the best earned that right. However, I find roadies are cocky simply based on the image they try to present. These guys may very well be successful in their professions but they seem to carry that arrogance over into their hobbies regardless if they are good cyclists or not. When you are on a ride, it isn't a race. Why don't they save that for race day????
I do not make a lot of money but I live beneath my means which affords me the ability to spend my money on my hobby. In the same breath though, I don't like being judged by guys like you who are strong riders and assume that I am just a gear junkie with $$$ to piss away. That is why I take time to wave and say hi to anyone on the road no matter what their story is. But there are so many pricks on road bikes and you can sense it even on these boards.
I'm PissPoor, Work for Minimum Wage And Can Kick Your Butt! hahaThe Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 12:59 PM
You see, I would never just sneer and not acknowledge another rider, but it happens all the time. I can totally see the satisfaction you get when you blow pass them and they cannot keep up.
>>>

i agree with this when it's true, but think about it.... sometimes when i'm on a bike, i'm not in the perfect mood. i'm not in the perfect mindset. i might be on mile 70 pumping up a 12% grade and i'm not physically able to have a pleasant conversation. i might be passing by you at 25mph while you're going the same speed the other direction and i didn't even see you wave. perhaps my mind is on the job i just lost or the girlfriend i just broke up with....

the point is, just because you're on a bicycle, that doesn't make you sub or super human. you're just human and your fallible and your job, like every other day, is to be the person you know how to be. sometimes you're just not going to rub people the right way.
because they are ignorant..colker
Feb 2, 2003 12:00 PM
the style comes from the european peloton and in europe, cycling is a blue collar sport. making it a snobish burgeois country club is ridiculous.
in some places(my country i.e.), people who ride bycicles are the ones who can't afford a car... like me.
it's all backwards in ther USphilippe crist
Feb 2, 2003 1:57 PM
I have lived in the US and let me tell you, the road cycling scene there is very nearly the opposite of what you find here in Europe. Colker has got it right... in Europe, cycling still is very much a working class sport. That isn't to say that you won't find sunday cyclists with flash bikes, but that the chances of that cyclist being a white-collar professional (aren't blue collar workers professional too?) are quite a bit less than in the states. You see a lot more old steel and 8-sp campy here than you do on your typical club ride in the states and when you do see a younger rider on a nice bike, chances are they're sponsored.

The euro peleton is 98% full of people from a low-to-middle class backgrounds and you can count on the fingers of both hands the number of pro's that have gone to university -- and that is pretty representative of the european cycling scene (england excepted of course!)

A+

Philippe
I wouldn't have bought a road bike in the states...config
Feb 3, 2003 12:59 AM
It was only until I got to Italy that I thought about getting a road bike. Back in the states, I saw the sport as a snobish type not like MTBing which I used to and still do. Here in Italy, it is a working class sport. Being in the U.S. military, I sure don't make a lot of money but I enjoy the sport (cycling in general) very much here. I know I'll still enjoy roadbiking once I get back to the states maybe just not the company.
Lazywriter....Raven1911
Feb 2, 2003 12:42 PM
I cannot agree with you more! You describe the roadies in my area very well. I ride with two other teams and they are all elitists and arrogant with the exception of very few. Most of the riders I ride with are lawyers, dentists, doctors, and anesthesiologists, which make big money around here. To answer your question....Arrogance is just their type of personality because of the type of work they do. I have very rarely met a doctor or lawyer that is not arrogant and think the world revolves around them. I am unsure as to why these types of vocations are attracted to cycling, but you kinda describe it pretty well. They are all worried about their equipment and what they look like and have to have the best equipment all the time. They are perfectionists and like to feel important by buying the best stuff around. If something new comes out you can bet one of them has it within a week or two. Every once in a while, usually at the beginning of the season, someone will get a new bike and everyone gawks at them and talk about it. Its actually pretty funny, I think.

When I first started riding with them they didn't give me the least bit of time, and still barely do even though I have been riding with them for over 2 years now! This bothered me because if I made a mistake while riding(in the peleton) I would get a talking to and it was rather rude, usually people yelling at me while riding. I THINK THIS IS THE WRONG WAY TO HELP SOMEONE GET INTO CYCLING! I didn't appreciate being treated like this and thought all the guys I was riding with were arrogant and rude, but I kept at it learning as I went.

I come from a rather poor or blue collar family and don't like to take that kind of crap. I ride a Trek OCLV that took me a year to save up for while bustin my arse while going to school. So how I deal with it is to let my cycling speak for itself. I work my arse off and beat most of them during training rides or anytime it gets competitive including races. This has given me a certain respect I feel because they see I am pretty good. Recently, I was asked to join a team around here that has probably the most arrogant people on the team. I declined and joined another team because of the type of people on it. They are down to earth people that enjoy teamwork and each other.

I am trying to change the way people are introduced to the sport which will, I feel make cycling more popular. Now, if I see someone new I introduce myself and tell them that if they have any questions to ask me. If they make a mistake during the rides then I will tell them after the ride very politely.

Bottom line, I think actions speak louder than words and I try to SHOW most of the riders out there that how good they are at the sport is more important than the kind of equipment they ride and so on. I do this by example.

Raven
Lazywriter....The Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 12:54 PM
I have very rarely met a doctor or lawyer that is not arrogant and think the world revolves around them.>>>

well, bloody hell. lots of what is being said is true to the letter, but i suppose you just haven't met very many doctors or lawyers. i work in transplant at UCSF and know lots of doctors very well. they're just like any other group of successful people. some are arrogant pr icks. some are the nicest people you've ever met. one of my best friends is a lawyer and she's the most down-to-earth person i've EVER met. of course, she's a public defender and that's another breed.

my rules of thumb are simple: EVERYONE is given a first chance (and sometimes a second). whether they look like elitist snobs or the ultimate Fred, i will say hello and if i'm able, strike up a conversation. they will usually prove themselves very quickly - goodperson/a$$hole. it doesn't take long. i think if you'd give EVERYONE a chance, you'd be surprised how often your generalizations will fail to materialize.
Lazywriter....Lazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 1:05 PM
I actually work in healthcare and know more doctors than most people. I actually work in subacute/rehab so I am with them on a daily basis and have worked in hospitals as well. Many of my close friends are physicians, but the generalization about them is true. Most are arrogant (not all).
Not all physicians cycle though. I am generalizing about the type of professional that is attracted to cycling. This seems to be precise, obsessive, perfectionists who have an affinity for all that is mechanical and gadgety.
I remember some douchebag coming into my LBS talking about how he bought the Litespeed Ultimate because he wanted the "top of the line". He assumed that the name was the top of the line and when I pointed out that there were other bikes higher in the LS food chain like the Vortex, Liege and Palmares(I didn't own a Vortex at the time), he got pissed off and turned his back on me. I remided him of this because he was such a smug prick I couldn't resist.
I usually ride alone but when I hook up with people on the road and try to strike up a conversation, roadies are invariably pricks.
If you noticed I said VERY RARELY not ALL...Raven1911
Feb 2, 2003 1:09 PM
I am a physical therapist and know MANY orthopedists very well and stick to my opinions. I am making generalizations about certain professions based on my experience. I know there are nice doctors and lawyers around here but upon meeting MOST of them in the cycling sport they are not very friendly. Your assumptions are based on your experience and it sound like you KNOW these people well, one is a good friend of yours you say. My best friend is a lawyer and and he is a nice person once you get to know him, but if you were to meet him once you would say he is very arrogant and materialistic. This is the case with most people.

I can't agree with you more about giving everyone one chance to see what kind of personality they have. I do that very thing. However, many times I have said hi and tried to be friendly to these people and they don't even acknowledge me or they give me a smirk with body language that says, 'why are you saying hi to me?' It just isn't a very good introduction to the sport.

Raven
Raven, don't you wish you can beLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 1:27 PM
socially inappropriate and tell these guys to go F themselves? Serioulsy, I think people are so insecure that they need to feel important or better than others in everything they do.
Competition is good, but roadies exude an arrogance that trancends the sport. It is a sport that seems to attract a$$holes.
Raven, don't you wish you can beThe Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 1:45 PM
listen, stereotypes exist for a reason... it's usually because there's something about them that rings true. there's no doubt that there are plenty of roadie snobs/a$$holes out there just like there are plenty of snob/a$$holes in the world. often times, however, people just assume someone's a snob. think about it... how often have you changed your mind about someone after getting to know them for awhile. admit it, you're bias. now, when you see a slick looking roadie on a colnago, 9 times out of ten you're thinking "a$$hole". does it even matter to you that you are now judging him based soley on superficial criteria? IMO, even if it were true that 9 out of every 10 roadies are a$$holes, you're still going to be unfairly bias toward the unlucky sucker (#10) who is unfortunate enough to run into you on the road and look just like the guy you know you can't stand. even if your stereotype rings true for you, just ignore it. you'll be much better off in the long run.

and finally, how can ANYONE on this board judge ALL roadies? the only roadies you see or ride with are the ones from YOUR town/city on YOUR routes and in YOUR clubs and group rides. you cannot possibly be judging mine for you've never met them let alone seen them.
Please read....Raven1911
Feb 2, 2003 3:41 PM
>>when you see a slick looking roadie on a colnago, 9 times out of ten you're thinking "a$$hole". <<

I do not because I do not think that way. If I do see someone like this I usually comment on their bike on how beautiful it is and what a nice bike it is. I then like to see how they ride on that beautiful bike and if they are a good rider or not. Like I said before.... with me actions speak louder than words.

>>and finally, how can ANYONE on this board judge ALL roadies? <<

I'm not sure you are reading this thread or maybe you are misinterpreting what others have written. I don't believe I or any others on this board are judging ALL roadies but just giving an opinion of the personalities of the people we have ridden with and raced with. In no way are we saying ALL cyclists are this way or that people YOU ride with this type of personality. I think what this thread is saying is that there tends to be a type of personality in cycling no matter where you live, definitely not ALL cyclists, but a lot. It is more a generalization of certain roadies we see by the way they act towards others. There also happens to be a coincidence that this personality is the same all over the country. I believe this is learned behavior. One person acts this way and it triggers another to act the same and so on.

Another thing... Many times I have approached others during rides and such about training, back when I didn't know anything about training in the offseason. I found a lot of people would just blow me off or give me bad information. I think a lot of people are too competitive and think that if they give you their 'secrets' then you might become better than they are. It wasn't until I found a very good rider that was down to earth that helped me develop as a rider and get a training program together. So there definitely is some people out there that are cool, but some definitely are NOT. That is what this thread is indicating.

Raven
Please read....The Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 5:17 PM
i don't think i'm misunderstanding you. i think you sound like a very reasonable, unassuming person. i'm directing my views at anyone and not specifically at you. i think it's obvious to anyone that there's a lot of assholes out there and i also think it's obvious for most people that we don't like to see rich, lazy, arrogant people riding ridiculously expensive equipment who seem to have no respect for the sport, let alone their fellow rider. it would be hard to find too many people on this board who didn't agree with that because there are a lot of seemingly good folks here.

what i am saying though, is just how you (no, not you specifically) hate someone who judges others just because they have a crappy bike, or they're down and out, or they come from a lower income background, etc., it's equally absurd to pass judgement on someone you've had only the briefest contact with and make assumptions about that person because they're riding ridiculously expensive equipment, or you know they're a doctor, etc. everyone should be judged on their action ONLY, and should be given a chance to PROVE to you that they're an A$$hole. again, i think you believe this to be true already, but you don't have to look far on these boards to find people who will piss and moan over being judged and yet they seem to be the first person who is willing to pass judgement.

ok?
I totally agree with you...Raven1911
Feb 3, 2003 6:58 AM
The Human G-Nome,

I totally agree with you but just thought you might not have understood some of the people above including myself. I do understand you and agree, thanks.

Raven
There IS a diffence...rbol52
Feb 3, 2003 2:10 PM
After years of MTB riding, my wife and I recently got road bikes. Because my wife is only 5ft, it was hard to find a good frame, so for a while, she'd ride her MTB while I rode my road bike. It was very interesting that some roadies would acknowledge me with a nod or a wave, but wouldn't extend the same courtesy to my wife. When she finally got her new bike, it was like she had been admitted to the club. She'd get the wave and the looks. Very amusing.

I don't know that many roadies. We haven't joined a club or ridden in any groups yet. But we have experienced the snobbery of some roadies. Maybe they're just locked into what they're doing. Let's face it, if you're riding along your favorite stretch on a sunny weekend, there's a lot of things to be aware of and sometimes you're too busy to exchange greetings. It is nice, though, when other riders give a wave of nod or ask how the day's going. It's one of the things I like about the sport. Unfortunately, there does seem to be a portion of folks who don't feel that way. Who knows what they do. Like some others, I know a number of doctors and other highly paid professionals and they're all just a cross-section of humanity. Some nice, some not. If a roadie wants to be a jerk, oh, well.

But it's interesting that most everyone responding to this thread says they try to be pleasant and friendly. Hope we see you guys out there.
Hey - LOOK --->GrabTheBarsAndHurt
Feb 2, 2003 8:54 PM
Raven can't hold a line, either! Maybe you should join a team with Lazywriter.

I don't blame people for giving you crap if you do something wrong in a pack. Ever gone down at 25 - 30 mph? It sucks. I don't care WHO the person is, if they can cause a crash because of their riding abilities, I'm going to say something to them irregardless of how it might impact their fragile ego. Why don't YOU get over your complex, understand you apparently don't know what's going on, and take some advice!

And no worries posting how experienced you are, apparently you aren't or you wouldn't be getting snapped at.
Hey - LOOK --->Lazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 9:01 PM
You are an a$$hole. Grabthebarsandhurt???? Leave what you do in your personal life private.
And you're ...GrabTheBarsAndHurt
Feb 3, 2003 6:26 AM
... a whiny punk.

Lose the attitude and return to the bike path where you belong.
Why the attack??Raven1911
Feb 3, 2003 6:56 AM
You don't know the circumstances in which I was yelled at so why don't you pipe down, buddy! You don't know how experienced I am. Why don't you stop attacking me and starting reading my posts. If you read them right you would know that this all happened YEARS AGO! I am a very experienced racer now and have no problems in races or group rides.

As you might know(although I'm unsure because you sound like an moron and tend to speak before reading posts), sometimes in the peleton you get put into positions where you don't want to be and because of this I was yelled at when I first started riding in the group. This was not a safety thing. Looking back, I was not going to cause a crash or anything, I just didn't pull through very well in a double pace line.

I have no problem taking advice from others. In fact, this thread is about getting advice as well. Too many times people don't give you advice when you need it(or ask for it).

Raven
Interesting ...GrabTheBarsAndHurt
Feb 3, 2003 7:58 AM
1) You admit you were at fault when you were barked at. What's the problem?

2) Not pulling through properly in a double pace line can have a HUGE ripple effect. I don't get why you'd try and defend yourself here. One of the biggest group ride accidents I've seen was caused by someone who pulled out of a pace-line when he wasn't supposed to

3) I'm posting in an aggressive manner because a) Lazywriter wrote a very abrasive email on the attitudes of road cyclists and 2) "I [you] cannot agree with you [him] more" (taken directly out of your post).

I agree that elite cyclists are snoody - but I don't think that's wrong. Inexperienced cyclists are a danger in the group, in my experience they're the ones that breed most of the bad blood between cyclists and other users of the road, and should drop their defenses, realize they are at fault, and not let their fragile egos get stepped on so easily.

Of course, in the respect to a true debate I went back and reread your posts. Even though my attitude hasn't changed, it seems that you and I are talking about different groups of people. When I refer to elite cyclists, I'm talking about people who cycling is their primary sport, are mostly in the Pro, Cat 1 and Cat 2 ranks (with the occasional Cat 3), and usually find themselves in the first and never less than the second group on the road in group rides (and in my experience, few white-collar professionals find themselves in this group). I read you are talking about people who think they can buy their way into the sport, and use their executive salaries to warrant respect in the local riders, and do have an unfounded arrogance - there I agree with you. I don't know where you are located (I'm on the Colorado Front Range), but here those guys are flushed out of the group after the first or second attack here. I'm pretty familiar with those of us left, and very few (if any) can qualify as a white-collar professional.

I also think I should apologize for doing the same thing you and Lazywriter have done and make generalizations with out knowing the individual. From the post that you "cannot agree more" with, I read that Lazywriter is probably a pretty strong rider who has honed his skills from either mountain biking or riding alone on the road. I pictured him as the guy who occasionally finds himself in the lead group after a couple of crunch times with out the necessary knowledge to contribute to the group. As the guy who makes a few small mistakes while the others are going hard, then does something that pisses another guy off, and gets barked at for it. I picture him as bitter for not being included in a group that he wants to belong to, and drafting inflammatory posts on a discussion list claiming to know more than he actually does (another generalization of mine: those who claim to be knowledgeable usually aren't). As a person who considers themselves a member of the group he is attacking, I'm probably more defensive than I should be. So, as I said - I'm at fault for the generalization with out knowing the individual, and I apologize.

I don't judge someone by the bike they ride (heck, some of the most experienced riders I know are still riding down-tube shifters and one guy is still riding toe-clips), rather I'm looking for the guy who rides his saddle so high he bounces from side to side when he pedals, or the person that is so nervous on the ride they can't hold a straight line when they're not concentrating on the road in front of them. If you fall into those categories and I see you on the group ride, heck yeah I'm going to make it as uncomfortable for your ego before you do the same to my epidermis. I work at cycling too hard in my very limited free time to have my season come to an end because some idiot is crossing wheels in a pace line. If I don't gain the composure while trying to catch a wheel when I'm anaerobic to gently tell them how what they did was wrong and why, I d
Brabtheschweenie and make it hurt,Lazywriter
Feb 3, 2003 2:54 PM
you must have a very very small penis. Seriously, the macho-
hard a$$ attitude is totally over the top and you must be compensating for a lack of girth to fill the front of you tights out. I am not generalizing.
You are not very bright, so I will not belabor the point but you totally miss the point of what I am saying. I am not specifically talking about racers. I am saying that the sport seems to attract guys exactly like you who may have become very good cyclists via hard work and are cocky with the skills to back it up and the other type which I described who are in it for the image.
You just seemed to take the opportunity to spew your own opinions and views thinking it was relevant in order to justify your diatribe. Whatever. I bet you are a very strong rider, but how did you learn if the guys who were better than you acted like the a$$hole you sound like?
Resorting to trite name calling, fully expected ...GrabTheBarsAndHurt
Feb 3, 2003 3:37 PM
OK Lazywriter. You win. You are right. And your name calling fully proved your point. I'm sorry that people aren't nice to you and I'm sorry that you aren't more accepted with your peers. It is all because of everyone else's attitude and not yours. Why don't you get us a list of the macho studs that frequent your group ride and we'll all call them for you. Your ability to call everyone that disagrees with you an "a$$hole" (see how many people you did this to in this discussion alone) completely proves them wrong. Disagree with Lazywriter and be prepared to suffer the consequenses.

Oh, and you asked how I learned from guys that treated me like that? Well, coming from a very competitive, athletic background I used it as motivation to do better. I used it to fuel my desire to get really freaking good at what I do. You think getting yelled at for messing up is bad? Try getting pushed across the yellow line on a group ride because you simply have a good wheel that a more senior rider in the group wants. How did I react to that? Freaking did it right back two weeks later (although, not across the yellow line). Guess what - he's a good friend of mine now. He's admitted embarrasment for his actions, but instead of whining to a discussion list about it, I stopped that right where it started and gained a little respect in the process. Think many people f-ed with me on future group rides?

Do you want some advice? Here I'm not being an a$$hole at all - if you really want to be good, and if you really want to learn from those guys, then be bigger than they are. When they yell at you, yell back "Fine. I'm doing it wrong - show me the right way!" and keep showing up, keep taking their crap, and keep kicking ass. Do you know why they are barking at you? Because there are dozens of riders that show up on a couple of rides, cause a crash and never go back. Just like I said before, to them (us) your ego is much less important than our health.

Maybe if you can do this, in 5 or 7 years you can be reading a discussion list and thinking, "man, this kid just doesn't get it" and maybe at that time you can be morally higher than I am, and offer more direction.

With that, I'm done.
Lazywriter.. This behavior is prevalent in all facets of life...MrDan
Feb 3, 2003 7:13 PM
Hi - my 2c.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have a friend who bought
very expensive golf clubs... for ALL the wrong reasons, and gladly I can say he owns up to it that it was ridiculous. Any truly good tennis player can beat someone with their 20 yr/old wooden tennis racquet against a "poser" who has the $400.00 racquet, all the expensive clothes etc. etc. By nature many with advanced degrees/Phd's are do it for status/position/competition with others. Too bad for them, and their insecurities - they aren't capable of truly feeling human/connected with others - it's all a shield against their insecurities, which largely were probably learned within their family/household. It's too bad that anyone gets into competitive cycling because they need to feel better about themselves, rather than be in it for the personal challenge/accomplishment of quiet inner personal goals...
Gee, I just thought that nobody liked me...serbski
Feb 2, 2003 1:01 PM
as it seems whenever I see a "racer" type while out riding, they won't even say boo while the "oldster/touring" type is always quick to say hello etc. Coming from a running background we have a similar division amongst the ranks as "roadracers" are seen as pompous/split-time obsessed coneheads while the "offroad" ultra-marathoner/trail runners are considered more helpful, relaxed and less mercenary/do or die competitive. This, obviously is a gross generalization in itself, however, in my experience there is enough truth in the stereotype to make the generalization stick. Now, cyclists have always gotten a real bad rap from runners of all stripes I must admit as they are seen as the types described in the above posting. In spite of this, I took the leap and began riding on the roads and I must confess that the vast majority of riders I've bumped into do fit that stereotype; God forbid they even acknowledge you... even at a stoplight! Should you outclimb some guy and then see him later at the bottom/redlight it's all stoney-faced silence until the light goes green. All I can say is that in the many thousands of miles I've run, both road and trail, 99% of runners will have a "hello" or, if you should be passing them even during a race, they will give a "looking good" in support. Man, I almost feel guilty on those rare occasions when I'm passing a roadie (and generally do all that I can to avoid it!) cos they just get bent. So, just to give some perspective from the "outside" as it were, there is a fair amount of "coldness" lurking in the road cycling world. The helpful and friendly "veteran" that one finds quite often while running out in the mountains seems a fairly rare bird in cycling. More often than not it's just some guy who's pissed if you're passing him or annoyed that he's had to pass you! *Please* don't misunderstand me, I love cycling and know some very cool road types but the "we're all in this together" attitude found in running is just not there from my POV in road cycling. It's too bad because the common enemy, the obnoxious/oblivious motorist, is the one who deserves to be snubbed. Oh, mountain bikers and trail runners have a whole cats and dogs friction thing going on, but that's for another post....
Lazy, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head.look271
Feb 2, 2003 1:33 PM
Generally speaking, of course=) It is interesting to me that as a rule, the slower the group ride, the friendlier the people are (this is, of course, in general).
wankers......twobits
Feb 2, 2003 3:08 PM
just because we all dress up like coco the clown every sunday doesn't mean we have to like each other. most ride to escape from other people. pass me on the left and leave me alone....bunch of wallies

lol
I can respect that butLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 3:21 PM
I am not talking about not waving and wanting to be left alone. I am taking about an whole attitude. If you pass me and don't wave I give you the <^>..<(*¿*)>..<^>
so does this meanS-U-B
Feb 2, 2003 4:25 PM
that everytime you pass someone on the road driving the same model of car that you must wave, otherwise your an a$$hole? When ever similar subjects like this come up on the board I hear the same old things, he rides a colnago, he must be an arrogant a$$hole, and he better damn well be fast if he's gonna ride that or he's a poser! You guys ever stop to think that the average person that can drop alot of money on equipment can afford to do that because he has worked his A$$ off for it? and because he/she is working their A$$ off for it, they dont have 15 hrs. a week to train like you people that didn't put 8-10 years into school and maybe dont have a family. Does this mean they have to walk out to their garage and hop on their OCR3 because that is all you think their skills are worthy of? You people ever heard of projection? I happen to be a doctor, I happen to be able to buy whatever bike/equipment I want, and no one I have ever ridden with or ridden by has ever said I'm an unfriendly arrogant prick. And no, I dont ride a colnago, I think they are kinda gaudy looking, but I ride with a couple of guys that do, and they are great guys. I think some people just have an inferiority complex, and when they look down at their bike, and then at others, that make that person out to be arrogant because it makes them feel better about their situation. I have waived to roadies that have not aknowledged me, but the thought that comes to my head is, hmmm must be concentrating/thinking about something else. Out of the 50+ roadies I have spent time with in my 2 years of cycling, I can only think of one that is an Arrogant idiot, and he's not rich. He's jut the kind of guy that thinks every ride and every hill is a race, and if your behind him then he must have dropped you. Not taking into account that maybe your on a training program. Just my 2 cents.
We are not talking about waving, it is a generalLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 5:01 PM
sense of arrogance and pomposity. There are always exceptions, but I am talking about an overrepresntation of these type of people in cycling.
You guys keep perseverating on waving when it is more of an attitude off the bike when you interact with these people (ie. at the LBS, waiting for group rides etc.)
Has nothing to do with a guy concentrating on his workout and not acknowledging me. I really don't care about that.
On the subject of wavingFunston
Feb 3, 2003 8:48 AM
I find that waving from a crouch position is more awkward and dangerous (at road speeds) than waving from a MTB's more upright position. I'm no snob, but if I don't return a wave (which happens) it's probably because I'm either too lazy or too gassed to make the return effort. So if I've ever offended you by not acknowledging you, maybe you need a longer fuse.
couldnt agree morectisevn
Feb 2, 2003 3:56 PM
one of the shops I used to work at was in an upscale suburb and attracted a fair amount of professionals buying (usually their first) road bike. generally a very meticulous and condescending crowd. jackasses. totally different with mt bikes and cyclocross tho. its not just the profession either, there was this surgeon that was a total regular that raced xc mt bikes. trained on a road bike. super cool and laid back. even a bit self deprecating. its a different vibe in the road scene. an aquired arrogance that you dont often see on the mt bike side. Ive never really bought into it and absolutely dont understand it.
Change "Roadies" to "People" and you have your answer. nmMB1
Feb 2, 2003 4:32 PM
Change "Roadies" to "People" and you have your answer. nmRCA
Feb 2, 2003 5:14 PM
As usual MB1 has it right. Golfers all really need those $1000 drivers. Skiers that spend under $2000 on skiis are nothing. A $500 bat for softball or don't play. Al McInnes won the hardest shot in Hockey contest using a $30 wooden stick. What are all the cool guys with the carbon composite sticks($300) going to do now. Buy a bike get on it and pedal If you see me, wave and I will wave ,Give me the finger and I will smile. I am the big guy on the OCR Touring bike going as fast as I want to!!!
Perfectly stated ...j-son
Feb 2, 2003 5:16 PM
I used to ride with the local collegiate mtn bike team. They weren't real receptive to having a cop tag along ... something about interupting their smoke break.

People are people; some are nice, some aren't, most are somewhere in between.

Best regards,
Jason
The "pack mentality" seems to have something to doThe Walrus
Feb 2, 2003 4:41 PM
with it, at least where I am. There's something about getting a bunch of roadies on a club ride, in their matching jerseys, matching shoes, matching helmets, bikes, socks, gloves, etc., etc., that brings out that certain attitude. Being able to channel all their insecurity into a group gives them some kind of strength they'd otherwise lack. On the other hand, I've been surprised to notice that it's very rare that a solo rider passes without a wave or a nod or even a "How's it goin'?", no matter how exotic the bike or how flashy the kit.
"Who's a Fred?" "Who's a Poseur?" Who cares!!jtolleson
Feb 2, 2003 5:14 PM
Honestly, the threads about what other roadies do/wear/act like get really old on this board.

This is just a new twist on the old "this chubby guy in full Postal regalia wouldn't wave at me" or "a guy on a club ride bought a Serotta Ottrott but can't ride more than 15 mph he's a loser"

I really could not care less about what any other cyclist rides, looks like, acts like and analyzing it here is its own kind of reverse snobbery, or at least gives way to much import to a non-issue.

Some folks are snobs, some are shy, some are focused, some are insecure (as are those who worry about whether others are snobby, if you ask me). Let it go. The world is full of all types. Determine what type YOU are and don't worry about anyone else.

Just one gal's opinion, of course.
Right on! (nm)geeker
Feb 2, 2003 5:54 PM
you should ride a recumbent and see their responsecyclist of all trades
Feb 2, 2003 6:45 PM
those few arrogent elitist assholes, like the doctor w/ the previous post on this thread, are so fun to pass on my lowracer. it just makes me giggle inside.

i wave hi to every cyclist i pass, actually i ring my bell before passing. most respond back, some don't.

by the way, i don't have beer belly, 2' beard or birckenstocks w/ cleats in them.

peace
Can you post a pic ?superdog
Feb 2, 2003 7:12 PM
Post a pic of you riding your lowracer!
I don't know where you guysthisendup
Feb 2, 2003 7:38 PM
ride, but it just ain't like that in my neck of the woods. My club ride has no uptight types, or for that matter no one who makes the bank either (correlation?). The odd part is that the other group rides I ride in don't seem to have them either and these aren't poke-along touring rides. Probably the worst guys I run into are the fastest and know it, far from posers.
I don't know where you guysThe Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 7:43 PM
same here. i haven't ridden with a single asshole all year. honestly. and i ride in groups of up to 40 on occasion. i did have the false impression, however, that this one particular cyclist was such an animal. didn't seem very friendly, was decked out in some serious garb and rode a 4500 dollar rig. still, he was always first or second up the climbs and you had to respect him (even if he is an asshole!) turns out, rides later after finally getting to know him a little that he's one of the nicest guys i've ever rode with. he's just a little shy and a little too focused on his passion.
I don't know where you guysThe Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 7:47 PM
same here. i haven't ridden with a single asshole all year. honestly. and i ride in groups of up to 40 on occasion. i did have the false impression, however, that this one particular cyclist was such an animal. didn't seem very friendly, was decked out in some serious garb and rode a 4500 dollar rig. still, he was always first or second up the climbs and you had to respect him (even if he is an asshole!) turns out, rides later after finally getting to know him a little that he's one of the nicest guys i've ever rode with. he's just a little shy and a little too focused on his passion.
Cyclist of all tradesLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 7:32 PM
You have balls. Good for you because you don't care about anything but the ride. If the only bicycles that were sold were lime green 3 speeds with banana seats, I assure you there wouldn't be any of the elitist, arrogant a$$holes riding. I guess they would have to stick with golf and skiing.
you should ride a recumbent and see their responseThe Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 7:40 PM
the doctor was "an elitist asshole"? or perhaps you deem him so because he's a doctor. he certainly didn't earn that lable with his post. and here you are bragging that you're passing "elitist assholes" and feeling good about yourself all the while. at the same time, this asshole couldn't care less about you, your rig or anything else you're offering. hey, whatever makes you giggle. but realize that this works just like reverse-discrimination. you're the one who's become what you hate.
Christ, you guys are missing the pointLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 7:55 PM
and you are trying to make something out of what he said when that wasn't his intent. Him giggling when he blows by an elitist roadie is justice in many ways. Sort of like when the bully finally gets his a$$ kicked. Stop reading into to this too deep.
The point was that cycling attracts a certain type of person who often is a high achieving professional that gravitates towards the sport because of the obsessive nature of the activity. Yes, a lot of doctors are smug, arrogant pricks that I work with on a daily basis. Lawyers are often a cliqueish and obnoxious clan as well that base their whole lives on competition.
You cannot convince me that this sport doesn't attract this type. It doesn't mean that all cyclists are this way and that some people are genuinely nice. I know of several attorneys that patron my LBS and they are douchebags. All of them. They ride in from the city and talk about their cars, vacation homes etc.. Trust me it is not envy talking here, it is their shallowness and arrogance that make me laugh. They speak as if they are experts on all aspects of the sport and when they are corrected, they still think they are right. It is not what they own, ride or buy that makes them a$$holes, it is their basic nature.
I speak of what I know and when I don't know, I listen to be better informed the next time.
Christ, you guys are missing the pointThe Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 8:35 PM
Him giggling when he blows by an elitist roadie is justice in many ways. Sort of like when the bully finally gets his a$$ kicked. Stop reading into to this too deep.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

yes, here is my point EXACTLY Lazy. he's giggling as he blows by SOMEONE HE DOESN'T KNOW AND HAS NEVER MET. get the picture now? he's judging the guy on looks, and laughing at him because he must feel threatened. i'm not reading anything into what he said. HE SAID IT. and now the "bully" got his "ass kicked"? and how could you tell he was a "bully" just by glancing at him for a half a freakin' second? get a grip. try to tell me that people aren't using preconceived notions of others based on class to judge them? and just in case you're wondering, i'm a renter. i don't own a car. no vacation home, no kids. the most expensive things i own are my bicycle and my G4 which i have to own for work.

and here's another telling line: "I know of several attorneys that patron my LBS and they are douchebags. All of them." let's compare you're little diatribe of classwar to one of race. what if you had said "I know several blacks that patron my LBS and they are douchebags. All of them." gee, doesn't sound so great does it? judging somone on class, poor or rich or anywhere in between is EXACTLY like prejudging someone based on their race. you're using preconceived notions of people based on personal experience that often have no business in reality. geeessssshhhhhhh.
Modern racism isn't based on raceSpoiler
Feb 2, 2003 9:00 PM
it's based on class. It's an attitude that says, "I don't mind Muslims, blacks, Mexicans, Japanese, or roadies as long as they walk, talk, act and look like me."
You guys are laughable.Lazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 9:06 PM
You must be attorneys or something because you take things out of context. Superfluous to argue because you miss a simple point and extrapolate things like RACISM out of it. Pathetic. Seriously.
You guys are laughable.The Human G-Nome
Feb 2, 2003 11:35 PM
lazywriter, best of luck to you. you're beyond anyone's help.
Isn't it frustrating?Spoiler
Feb 2, 2003 8:55 PM
You put deep thought into a 700+word affirmation phrased as a question, and the cattle still can't be illuminated. Take heart, Clonaid feels your pain and is working on the ultimate solution.
you should ride a recumbent and see their responseohmk1
Feb 3, 2003 6:50 AM
I thought you have a Bachetta Giro (you mentioned it on your last post), that's not what you mean by a low racer, is it?
I agree with JTDougSloan
Feb 2, 2003 7:51 PM
This has come up so often, the responses are fully predictable. It's purely a troll.

Doug
Doug, prime example!Lazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 8:01 PM
"This has come up so often, the responses are fully predictable. It's purely a troll."

Of course everyone is predictable in their responses and the fact that I raise a topic that obviously people see merit it, I am a troll. Please!!!!!!!!!! You seem so sure of my intent when others have responded with the same feelings. Of course I am wrong right? This is a purely imagined thing that me and others see. Sorry if you are "above" all this but you still feel compelled to respond to it.
Irony.jtolleson
Feb 2, 2003 8:58 PM
Look, you are obviously, for whatever reason, invested in your assessment of the roadie world. Bully for you.

I think it is ironic, though, that you are by and large one of this board's bigger abusive judgmental jerks. Assuming this board is a microcosm of the roadie world (an overgeneralization, no doubt) then it seems really funny that YOU are the one telling us what jerks we are.

If you see your role as to "stir the pot," I can't change that. But the false umbrage falls hollow.
I admit I can be abrasive and assertiveLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 9:11 PM
when I need to be. Why are you lumping yourself in with the elitist/arrogant a$$holes? See something in my description??? I am not the only one who feels this way and you guys who constantly try to police the board should just remain quiet.
but what's your question?DougSloan
Feb 3, 2003 6:37 AM
Your question was "Why are so many Roadies elitist and arrogant?"

That's a bs question. Tell us you are sincerely trying to assess the psychological "reasons" roadies are elitist. First, it's a loaded question. It assumes many are, when it could just be a visable few. Second, people are who they are. Are you implying that cycling *causes* certain people to be elitist? Probably not. My point is that no one here could possibly answer the question. That makes it a troll -- call it what it really is, a "rant." Instead of a question, why not just say this: "I think too many roadies are elitist and arrogant." Isn't that your point?

Keep in mind that I might agree with the latter point a bit. Nonetheless, it's still a troll.

It is funny that you post such a thing and then jump down anyone's throat who dissents in the slightest, particularly someone like JT, who is one of the nicest, most thoughtful people here. Do you see any, ANY, *irony* (look it up) in your last statement: "...you guys who constantly try to police the board should just remain quiet." -- LMAO.

Doug
Well said DougSpoiler
Feb 3, 2003 9:21 AM
I admit to being an A-hole on this board, but this prince makes eveb me look good.
Doug, Doug, DougLazywriter
Feb 3, 2003 3:06 PM
Why I am a troll when people obviously have differing opinions. I count many people who responded affirmativley to what I said and my views. The basis of what I am saying is that cycling is a sport that seems to attract a certain type of individual who in turn tends to be arrogant. Read my original post again and it is clear.
The whole topic gets degraded as more and more people add to the basic idea. Think what you want, I don't really care what your opinion is, honestly, I do not.
"Who's a Fred?" "Who's a Poseur?" Who cares!!pina
Feb 2, 2003 10:26 PM
Well said.
Troll(nm)TREKY
Feb 2, 2003 7:34 PM
TrekyLazywriter
Feb 2, 2003 7:43 PM
Don't be an a$$hole. I brought up a valid point that obviously people here can see the validity in. Let me guess what category you fit into?
Poor, poor LazyreaderGrabTheBarsAndHurt
Feb 3, 2003 9:46 AM
Doesn't get accepted by the local cool-guy crowd. Complains on discussion group. Finds people that don't agree with him. Blasts them and calls them names.

I think I see why Lazyreader isn't accepted by his local cycling group - he is an abbrasive, rash individual that is always looking for conflict.

Don't you pity him?
got it all wrongDougSloan
Feb 3, 2003 2:41 PM
I don't think it's because of his conduct and attitude; I think it's because he rides a Litespeed.

Doug

It's a joke already. :-)
Damn add engineers in there toogranda
Feb 2, 2003 7:44 PM
Even though we don't seem to be as arrogant as doctors and lawyers, most engineers I know (including me :) seem to feel like we do something superior compared to other people. Not to mention we make decent $$$, and we loooovveee gadgets and the ability to participate in an activity where you don't have to talk to other people. No wonder every engineer I know has a road bike!
Poll of the day ...GrabTheBarsAndHurt
Feb 2, 2003 8:03 PM
Is Lazywriter a little bitter because he showed up at his local group ride with the latest AXO and Fox Racing baggies only to be ridden into the shoulder when he couldn't hold his line in the echelon?

The answer to your question is obvious - mountain bikers are nicer because, in the whole, they are less experienced riders. Road riders (for the most part) are more elitest because they rely on each other more for safety in group riding. If you try to ride with some guys and screw things up because you are copping an attitude thinking you know it all (since you spend that disproporitonal money on cycling, and we all know it's about the money), you are going to be an outcast. Get over it.

Elite level road riding (notice the ELITE LEVEL designation) is a snob sport because it is a highly skilled activity. Idiot chodes that think they know everything are dangerous and don't deserve the respect until they earn it.

Oh, and by the way - we're not looking at the bike you're riding. We're looking at whether you have any sense of positioning on your bike, whether you swerve erratically into the road as you turn to look at us, and if those wounds healed from the last time you tried to ride in a pack.
Fear of Deathmacalu
Feb 3, 2003 5:35 AM
Its not that they want to be arrogant and elitist. It is simply that these aging baby boomers who can afford 3 and 4K dollar rides are afraid of aging and dying. The faster they go relative to you and others, the better 'shape' they are in, the longer they have until they become old and, inevitably, die. Of course, everyone dies, so the competitive mindset has an irrational core of wishful thinking. Even so, I know some nice guys on very toney equipment, and I have met and ridden with some real jerks over the years as well. It is hard to generalize solely based on the dollar value of ones equipment. But there is a neurotic element of keeping up with the Joneses that pervades Americal road cycling and society in general. The route of much of this thinking is fear of death, as well as not squeezing every last bit of juice out of the orange of life before the grim reeper comes knocking.
I vote Campy....no Shimano...and I hate Litespeeds ;) (nm)ColnagoFE
Feb 3, 2003 6:58 AM
Litespeeds with Shimano are poseur bikes! (nm)DougSloan
Feb 3, 2003 7:24 AM
Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll. Troll.

Doug
Judge not, lest thee be judged.Mel Erickson
Feb 3, 2003 7:37 AM
I think you should have expected it. BTW, I don't agree. Where I ride most everyone is pretty friendly. Certainly no less friendly than any other athletic pursuit in which I've been involved. Personally, I think it's kind of a waste of time to think about. I've already spent too much time on it.
Correction: "Judge not, lest Ye be judged."Willz
Feb 3, 2003 7:58 PM
Depends Where You LiveRJF
Feb 3, 2003 7:55 AM
I think this is ridiculous. Apparently you've never come across some guy bombing down the trails dressed in body armour screaming at people to "get the hell out of my way."

Wherever you guy in life, there are dicks. It has nothing to do with what or where you ride.
Hey Lazythinker! Some flame bait for you!rrodrigz
Feb 3, 2003 9:12 AM
I am the son of a lawyer and a 48 yr old well to do Doctor(Plastic Surgeon to boot!). I am about to buy a Merckx GX2($$$), which is too much bike for me, but I am so excited that the whole shop knows about it. Since I work late, I bought myself both a trainer and a roller, but I still have a hard time getting more than 4 hrs bet mon-fri on the bike cause it cuts into my sleep and my sons wrestling practice and daughters track meets. When I ride with a group (They are pretty good) I get short of breath and can barely keep up with the paceline(sometimes i'll just "red lantern" most of the way), much less take a hand off to wave to somebody I barely see cause i'm fixated on the guy in front. I get dropped often, but sometimes when the sun and the moon are properly aligned I bust my ass and pass somebody who may or may not be taking it easy, and it feels soooo good! But then sometimes the effort blows me and if the guy passes me again I'll just hang on for dear life until I can't anymore. When i get back to the shop I'm so glad just have made it that I do talk a lot (maybe due to lack of oxygen or reluctance to get back on the bike for the last couple of hills to get home). Since I do appreciate the shop I make sure I always spend ("flash around") some money. Oh, and I tip for repairs to show that I care (more "flashing around"). Some of the younger BMX'er types don't talk to me, but then again neither do my sons friends, unless I address them first, or they have gotten to know me well. I guess its my age or my dress, but I do feel a little silly walking up to them and trying to "talk their language" or talk about a style of cyling I know nothing about. I am probably that guy that didn't wave back to you, rides a fancy bike, passes you then tries to suck to your wheel when you show him his place, talks too much, and just RUINS your day. We're talking DEEP and COMPREHENSIVE asshole credentials here. After reading your post I realize that I'm such a bad rich elitist road jerk that as soon as my kid's college is paid for I'll shoot myself to make the world a better place and give you one less person to hate.
Oh, I get itLazywriter
Feb 3, 2003 3:28 PM
Saecasm. Once again you miss the point. WHO EVER SAID THAT I WAS JUDGING OTHERS BY WHETHER OR NOT THEY WAVED??? That is just one aspect. And don't give me this crap that roadies are in their own world all the time.
I know many who take the time to look at what others are riding (because they are so image conscious and need to compare themselves to others) but they don't have the time to nod.
Give me a break. I am not making this whole aura of arrogance and elitism up. It is tangible in the roadie community regardless of the contrarians here who point out that "there are always exceptions". That is a given. Not all doctors and lawyers are arrogant, not all of anything is always something. However, there is a distinctive pattern and you or anyone else cannot convince me to the contrary.
As far as your profession goes, I can say a lot about it. You dwell on people's insecurities and societal pressures to be something they are not. If you are purely reconstructive in nature, I apologize and commend you for your work. However, if you are the type to give 17 year old girls lipo, fake t!ts and nose jobs, shame on you.
That is the society we live in though and I cannot fault you for it. You are just another opportunist cashing in on people's stupidity. You can hide behind the guise of "if they look better, they will feel better", but you know that is just a cycle that never ends. I work in geriatrics and I see the end result of life everyday. All your surgery, tucks, lifts, botox etc are futile.
Body dysmorphic disorder keeps you rich and you know it. Rationalize all you want but you add no real value in the medical community by poisoning people with fake t!ts.
so much judging, so little thought... nmDougSloan
Feb 3, 2003 4:02 PM
so much judging, so little thought... nmLazywriter
Feb 3, 2003 5:48 PM
Doug, you really are a smug, self righteous a$$hole. We will never agree and I sure see some qualites in you that are familiar. Hint.
Get some therapyjtolleson
Feb 3, 2003 5:54 PM
I'm not one to get into flame wars on this board but if you are really as emotional about this debate as your posts indicate, then you need help.

It is an exchange of opinion, or has that idea somehow gotten lost here?
Actually, I was having a nice discussion until DougLazywriter
Feb 3, 2003 6:24 PM
instigated and called me a troll. Look at the history of this thread and you can see this clearly. I made the original post and numerous people agreed and disagreed. I admit that the discussion degraded, but I didn't instigate the name calling. Self righteous Doug did.
Yes, I will tell people to go fu(k themselves when I have to and with all the smug, arrogant aholes around, they need it. Plus you people love my threads because they invariably get the most looks.
actuallyDougSloan
Feb 3, 2003 8:17 PM
I wasn't the first to call it a troll. Check the facts. The post is a troll, not you, by the way. "It's purely a troll." -- what I said. I didn't call you a troll.

I am still getting a kick out of this one, though:

"...you guys who constantly try to police the board should just remain quiet."

Doug
It's all DOUG'S FAULT! I knew it!!!!! : ) (nm)jtolleson
Feb 3, 2003 8:45 PM
something to be proud of!DougSloan
Feb 4, 2003 7:21 AM
I think this thread set a new RBR record for the number of uses of the word "a$$hole, or some variation of it. About half were by Lazythinker. Way to go!

Doug
Birth of a trollSpoiler
Feb 3, 2003 10:59 PM
Your posts get the most responses because people here are eternal optimists. They think that by sharing their opinion and experiences, even if they're different from yours, you'll learn something. They think if they can help you see a pattern to your behavior, you'll eventually be able make a positive contribution to the board.
Example A:
1. You say road cycling attracts mostly elitist snobs. You add a question mark on the end as an afterthought.
2. Somebody says they haven't found that to be the case. Now we have a full discussion.
3. You then ridicule them, concluding that if their opinions or experiences vary from yours, they're in denial. At this point you could say, "Huh, I guess the roadies I see are elitist and the roadies other people deal with aren't," accepting the fact that other people have different experiences than you.
4. The optimists reply, trying to reason with you. This is the point at which the "lazy-factor" kicks in and the endless circle begins.
5. If you get satisifaction from the sheer volume of replies, regardless of whether it's constructive or not, a troll is fufilled.
Birth of a trollLazywriter
Feb 4, 2003 5:30 AM
It is not a satisfaction that I get by volume of views, rather an observation I made. A lot of hits is indicative of interest despite what people say. Kinda like why so many people listen to Howard Stern. Amusing and entertaining yet callous. Like I said, this was a legitimate topic until it degraded after people accused me of "trolling" or being a "troll". Enough with the semantics Doiug. What is the difference in whether you said I was a troll or was trolling????? None.
The fact is that many others percieve roadies like I do. There is a psychological phenomenon called ego syntonic behavior where individuals have no introspection and cannot see the way in which they are. Therefore their behaviors are so consistent with the was they think and are that they do not see what they do as wrong.
This is why personality disorders are so hard to treat because they can never see the themselves for what they are and they blame others. Before you accuse me of this, let me say that I am a very self depricating individual and always admit fault in myself. Now, all the people responding that roadies are not elitist pricks most likely are the elitist pricks I am referring to. (hence ego syntonic).
Think what you want but you will not convince me that my perceptions are wrong. I am a good judge of character and can see through the bullsh$% pretty consistently.
Over 2500 views on this topic. Just accept that this is a legitimate thread that people are genuinely interested in. Man, you people are so damn arrogant that you cannot even give credit when it is sooooo obviously of interest to many.
...and people stop to look at bodies on the road, too nmDougSloan
Feb 4, 2003 7:23 AM
re: I said that....jrm
Feb 3, 2003 12:38 PM
But i stated that Woof the Doughbag fit that stereotype, not all roadies in general.

Make a difference be an ambassador of all cyclists regardless of their mode of cycling.

PS: And allways wear a helmet.....
my lowracercyclist of all trades
Feb 3, 2003 5:24 PM
i will show a pic when the weather turns back around again and my wife lets me touch the digital

ohmk? i do ride a giro, until now. new bike is a reynolds t-bone.

great thread going on here. It's obvious w/ all the responses. who knows Lazy, maybe if it changes just one elitist it's all worth it.

by the way, i know that most all the roadies i pass and some who pass me aren't elitists. it's the fact that a precious few are and it gives me great joy.

i say enjoy what you ride and don't judge people by what they ride. accept them for who they are, unless of course if they are stupid arrogant elitists.

in the end however, i wish more people would try a speed recumbent. it certainly opened my eyes and enable me to go faster than before with the coathanger(my roadbike, not yours).