|How much to sell a hardly used/hard crashed frame for||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 9:13 AM
|I'm sorry about the whole weight training advice thing. So if anyone ever wants to answer one of my questions again after I completely dug into everyone I'd really appreciate it.
I'm selling the frame I crashed on in Trinidad on eBay. I never completely liked it since it wasn't quite stiff enough for me so I am going to buy this years Vigore (at a % off) which is a stiffer frame from them. So I'm trying to recoup as much of the price of the original frame towards the new frame. The original frame retails for $1690 Canadian and was used literally about a dozen times prior to the crash. In the crash however it got a sizeable bent in the top tube, the steel fork bent forwards as it landed right side up after I ejected from the pedals and both wheels were destroyed leading me to believe most of the impact wasn't absorbed by the frame. How much do you think I should settle for since its been hanging up since the crash unused? As it stands the best bid is $500 Canadian.
If you want the ebay ad is here:
Jan 25, 2003 9:31 AM
|This is what makes it hard for legit ebay sellers. Here you state a crash damaged frame, but your ad reads "however during travel it got a dent in the top tube". Kind of different, huh. I hope the ebay bidders read this forum as well.|
Jan 25, 2003 9:39 AM
|I've told everyone who asks... in the ebay ad I just don't want people not to take a look at it because its been crashed.
|This is the best one yet. You are the master. nm||amflyer|
Jan 25, 2003 9:47 AM
|$1 - if you pay the shipping||PdxMark|
Jan 25, 2003 9:45 AM
|I'm actually a bit shocked. Your Ebay ad says "during travel it got a dent in the top tube," but here you give us the full story. Wow. I think I'll stick with buying new frames.
You should sell the full bike in its post-crash glory so bidders have an idea of what the frame went through, including being attuned to possible damage to the head tube area when the front wheel was destroyed and the fork bent. Either that, or you could change your Ebay name to "Caveat Emptor" to give bidders a sporting chance.
|Misleading ebay ad aside||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 10:07 AM
|How much would you pay for a $1700 frame that was hardly used, crashed hard once so the bar twirled around and dented the frame but all the welds are perfectly fine and the manufacturer may leave the warrantee on.
|How do you know the warranty is still good?||Fez|
Jan 25, 2003 10:26 AM
|If the frame is still in perfect condition (everywhere, not just the welds) after that huge crash, and if the warranty is still good on it, then why don't you ride it?
OTOH, if the frame is damaged, most manufacturer warranties are void if the frame was raced and crashed. Also, most warranties are NOT transferable; they are for orig owner.
I would ask if they have a crash replacement program. It may be cheaper to upgrade this way.
Most people in good conscience could not sell something that they knew was not structurally sound. Do you know for a fact that the frame is in perfect condition? Would YOU ride it with confidence? Would you want someone to wipe out on it and face severe injury?
Move on and be glad you are alive and healthy, or sell it with full disclosure and price it accordingly.
|How do you know the warranty is still good?||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 10:42 AM
|Thanks for the reply Fez. Your comments helped me put things in perspective.
I'd ride the frame myself with confidence. But my key issue is I don't feel its stiff enough in the bottom bracket for me being an almost 200 lbs sprinter which would lead to power loss. I knew that in Trinidad prior to me crashing. I know my friend has an almost identical frame (size and everything) but he is a pursuiter, close to 40 lbs lighter than me and really likes it so I'm not your average guy who rides a 56 cm frame.
As for the warranty since I'm partially sponsored by Cramerotti I'm going to try to see what they will do that way just so people don't have to be nervous about buying it. Cramerotti has no crash replacement program since they are a smaller company.
|I gotta speak up here||gregario|
Jan 25, 2003 10:39 AM
|Several months ago you were driving everyone nuts with your endless "I'm the greatest, look at me!" posts. Then things quieted down and I thought maybe you were an OK guy, just immature. Lately though, as another person said, you've frankly been acting like a jerk again. Now you're telling us about the frame you're trying to sell and basically being VERY misleading, OK, lying, in the ad. Now I wish you would just go away, but since you're not, the best we can all do is ignore you.
Maybe someone should warn whoever bids on the bike about how it was really damaged. Gee, there IS a video isn't there? I SEEM to slightly remember you talking about that.
|This is where I apologize||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 10:50 AM
|As for me cutting people down the past week. I've been stressed by math and the weight room this is a pet peeve of mine. Either way it didn't give me any right to say what I did. So I'm sorry for that.
Then I'll admit I lied in the ebay ad but if someone asked me in an email how the dent really happened I told them the truth. I'm not trying to be fraudulent. The frustration comes from me selling a frame that was only ridden 3 weeks before my big crash that I knew I'd most likely want to sell at the end of the season since it wasn't stiff enough. And I've thoroughly looked over the frame and there seems to be no cracked welds or anything of that nature. If I didn't want a stiffer frame I'd ride it in full confidence. The only damage is a cosmetic dent from the handlebar swinging around.
|Sorry, you've lost whatever credibility you might have had(nm)||gregario|
Jan 25, 2003 11:05 AM
|Go away and change your name (nm)||Alexx|
Jan 25, 2003 11:44 AM
|It isn't worth selling, actually you should feel bad for trying.||bugleboy|
Jan 25, 2003 11:43 AM
|A crashed frame isn't worth anything. Coming from competitive cyclist. I have crashed also and just took the damaged equipment as a loss. It's just part of the sport especially if you race. There may be more damage to the frame that really can't be seen. If your fork is bent I will wage that your headtube is damamged is someway. The basic structural integrety of your frame has been compromised. How would you feel if some bought the frame and something failed and they got hurt? Plus I'm sure in today's legal system they could find a way to hold you liable. Do you want to take that chance? If I was to buy that frame I would from what we have all determined to be a lie about the the condition, I would want my money back. The manufactorer will not warranty any part of that frame. Especially to a 2nd owner, no company does. They might offer a crash replacement frame at a lower cost. You are doing a serious injustice to the person that might buy that frame, think about it. How would you feel?|
|One man's junk...||Ken of Fresno|
Jan 25, 2003 2:26 PM
|can be another man's junk, if the price is right. :)|
|Yer just too full of it....||Rusty Coggs|
Jan 25, 2003 1:29 PM
|...by saying it was damaged in shipment,why would they have reason to question you further? So you looked it over. Big deal.Why not just blow off..............?|
|Please show respect for the ebay community.||Ken of Fresno|
Jan 25, 2003 11:06 AM
I applaud your coming clean on your fib (fudge? LIE?) about how the dent occurred, but don't you think it looks somewhat dubious to contradict yourself so obviously in your description. Also, you state that you will not accept less than $1000 Canadian, but you listed the auction with no reserve price. Understand that when you list an item with no reserve you are committing to selling the item for whatever price the auction ends at. You can't simply say to the high bidder "I don't want to sell it because I'm not happy with the final bid price." That's what reserves are for. They keep the item from selling for less than you are willing to take. Listings like these throw up big warning signs for most ebayers that have any experience at all. I've been ebaying for years and the majority of the problems I've had are from newbies that don't know the ropes. If I were you I would pull the listing and relist with the full honest story and a reserve price for the lowest you are willing to accept. I'd think it would be much lower than 35% off of full retail. Frames loose that much value just from normal use.
|You're an IDIOT!!!!||Rusty McNasty|
Jan 25, 2003 11:32 AM
|I mean, really! That frame MIGHT be worth $1k used IN PERFECT CONDITION, not damaged. If it was just a "little dent", I'd say maybe it's worth $250 for a person willing to take a chance. As a wreck, I wouldn't give you a nickle for it!
Oh, BTW, you are a fraud, too. Hope E-Bay bans you for life, you thief!!
|Thanks for being my conscience... revised auction here||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 11:33 AM
|Here is the revised auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2703789745
My initial motivation to lie was not to be fraudulent but more to not scare off a bidder right away. I explained to everyone who emailed me the conditions of the frame which I now realize make the circumstances that could have caused damage to the frame even more nervous as they did not know whether I was still lieinig.
|revised auction should be taken down.||collinsc|
Jan 25, 2003 11:57 AM
|there is no way you should be selling this frame.
"At this point I will not accept less than $1000 Canadian" is just f#cking ridiculous.
This thing is worth zero dollars. You crashed it. It got dented. It is trash.
Dont sell it. Throw it away.
Jan 25, 2003 12:08 PM
|why not get an appraisal from Cramerotti about the frame's safety in writing. transferring the warranty may also help.
I don't know that you'll get what you want, and you should have done this properly the first time around (which I'm sure you realize). but there are lots of posters out there worse than you. forget them, especially the ones telling you to get off the forum. that's just idiotic.
|Good, but there still is a problem with your auction...||Fez|
Jan 25, 2003 12:15 PM
|As far as my understanding of ebay is concerned, if someone bids, it is a binding offer for both parties.
You have it listed at a penny with no reserve, but then you stated you will not accept less than $1,000.
If someone bids on it for any amount, its a binding offer.
|Correct. nm||Ken of Fresno|
Jan 25, 2003 12:22 PM
|start at $0.01, place reserve. nm||weiwentg|
Jan 25, 2003 12:41 PM
|You are correct sir.||gregario|
Jan 25, 2003 1:35 PM
|Since Zippy here did not put a reserve price on it he is required to sell to the highest bidder. So, instead of $1,000 Canadian you might be selling it for 2 cents.
You can alway cancel or back out, that sounds right up your alley. Of course that would give you negative feedback.
Please learn how to use Ebay before listing something and be honest about it.
|I hope you learned your lesson||Spoiler|
Jan 25, 2003 1:07 PM
|You just need to stay committed. Next time, stick to the original lie. Tell nobody. Never back track. You need to know when to keep quiet. Next time, sell the bike to some sucker first, when you can brag about it in here after the you have the money in your pocket. You can still sell the fork on ebay. Advertise it as "Uniquely aerodynamically shaped fork" $200 firm.|
|Well, it was fraudulent||jtolleson|
Jan 25, 2003 4:12 PM
|Having damaged a bike in a crash myself, I would never have dreamed of selling it on the internet. Couldn't have done so in good conscience. Your ad is shameful.|
|To my credit||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 7:50 PM
|Its one thing to say something in an ad then another to back it up in writing when people emailed me. When they emailed me I told them the truth so you can't say my intentions were completely bad. My judgement was poor when posting the original ad but the revised one states all the facts up front.
|Sorry, not inclined to give credit.||jtolleson|
Jan 25, 2003 8:17 PM
|The description of your crash here (and the video you posted months ago), along with a "sizeable" dent in the top tube, doesn't not indicate good intentions when you post a stock photo (ie., don't show the damage) and minimize it to the buyer in a long distance internet transaction.
Call me sensitive.
When I crashed my Canny in 1998, I also had the bars spin around and dent the top tube, though my front wheel, aerobars, and left legs took most of the impact. A bike shop said that it was "maybe" rideable. I put it in a dumpster and wouldn't have DREAMED of trying to make $$ off it. I gave the components to an exchange student.
Perhaps my own experience colors my assessment, but I don't think so. Your effort was out of line and I'm glad you seem to recognize that now.
|Stock photo kafluffle||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 8:39 PM
|I didn't post a stock photo to mislead anyone. I know I do have a picture of the dent somewhere but couldn't find it so I just put a regular picture up so the intention was just to show what the frame looked like and not the actual frame damage and all. I will be sure to show a potential buyer the picture though.
Thanks for pointing this out,
PS How's your training going? Did you ever decide on a frame?
|What the hell is wrong with everybody today.||fractured|
Jan 25, 2003 1:13 PM
|Stop being such a bunch of assholes!
He's not trying to commit fraud, he's trying to get some input, and all the forum lurkers jump out of the woodwork to flame him to death. Bit of respect, alright??? It's enough to make a person want to quit riding and quit posting, so much for the "online community".
Nick, sorry to say it but the frame isn't worth nearly $1000 anymore. A frame losses half it's value the moment you walk out the door with it, never mind a damaged one. I would try to sell it locally (I assume you're in Vancouver) so that people can actually see the damage. If it IS still aligned and rideable, it will have value to someone looking for a deal. Also I would talk to your shop, maybe they can set something up, as you would get a better price that way.
As for the eBay ads the posters are right. The ending price of something is a binding contract to sell it at that price, so you have to set a reserve if you want higher, or start the bid higher. You're setting yourself up for some negative feedback (which you don't want) and possibly your account being banned.
$500 dollars frankly sounds like a very good offer.
|He asked, and lots of folks are giving him legit feedback.||Fez|
Jan 25, 2003 1:18 PM
|Some are a bit angry and flaming, but most are giving him constructive feedback.|
|Oh please. He deserves it.||gregario|
Jan 25, 2003 1:38 PM
|You must not be familiar with our friend Nick.|
|"$500 dollars frankly sounds like a very good offer"??????||bugleboy|
Jan 25, 2003 4:51 PM
|Maybe you should buy it. Your the only person that would be willing to pay that if anything at all. The frame was crashed. It doesn't hold any value any more. It is a high end Aluminum frame. Once fatigued it is pretty much over from there.|
Jan 25, 2003 7:01 PM
|I was refering to the origional post, where he said the highest offer he had so far was $500.|
Jan 25, 2003 9:39 PM
|I was being my normal confrontational(sp?) self. Just ignore me.|
Jan 25, 2003 2:47 PM
|no matter what your bad excuse is for deceiving people it's fraud..If you ever were to make it to the olympics, I'm rooting for everyone else. Can you blame me? Youre full of yourself and now you've shown to be a fraud. Do you think that your reason of"not wanting to scare people away" is a legitimate reason for such a lie in your listing? No one else eccepts that logic, do you?|
|I changed the auction...||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 25, 2003 2:55 PM
|I deserved that. But in my defense that I'm not a complete ass (although its seemed like it this week) I did change the auction. I'll admit I lied in my initial auction. But when people contacted me I told them the truth without hesitation. It was bad judgement on my part but I did quickly rectify it.
|glad to hear it||ishmael|
Jan 25, 2003 3:06 PM
|you shouldn't need people to tell you to though. I'm putting you on probabation. I'm not going to root for you if you make it to the olympics as of yet, but there is a possibility.|
|Learning from one's mistakes||ms|
Jan 25, 2003 3:22 PM
|Although it would be wonderful if all of us did the right thing all of the time, all of us make mistakes. Nick deserved to be told what he had done wrong, but he has cured his mistake and I hope that he has learned something from the experience. I think that it is time to lay off of him -- or at least put him on probation.|
|and what's the deal with the catalog pic?||rufus|
Jan 25, 2003 3:48 PM
|if you're selling a damaged frame, you should put up pictures showing the damage, so prospective buyers can see the damage and weigh the risks for themselves, instead of having to take your word for it. your word which isn't too trustworthy in the first place. "during transit....." indeed.|
|Too late for reserve now!!!!!||BrokenSpoke|
Jan 25, 2003 4:03 PM
|Hey Nick, I just checked out yor frame and someone has placed a bid for .01 If the bidding doesn't go any higher, you are bound to sell it to the bidder for 1 penny.|
|Oh, man! I'll bid $2 on it!!||Alexx|
Jan 26, 2003 7:06 AM
|I need a new beater frame for going down to the grocery store! Do you think it can take a riser bar and chrome baskets on the back? I can hardly wait!|
|Once just annoying, now out and out lying????||Frank121|
Jan 26, 2003 5:14 PM
|I have followed several of your threads in the past and just thought you might be guilty of being a bit self-absorbed and naive.
However, your eBay auction where you lied about the cause of the damage to your bike lets me know that one thing I can know for sure is that you are not always honest.
I also now know that you ignore advice and facts, as you were told that if you list the bike again with no reserve price you would be obligated to sell to the highest bidder, no matter how low the bid.
I see you have relisted the auction and now list the damage further down in the text, but you still have no reserve price and still say you won't take less than $1000 for the frameset.
My guess is if you don't sell to the high bidder, and because you lied in your first auction, you will hear from eBay folks.
Just ride the frame yourself, or warranty it for a new one(if the company will do that on a crash) or just take it to the scrap yard and chalk this one up to experience and be glad you weren't severely injured.
|I'd like to straighten out a couple things||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Jan 26, 2003 6:18 PM
|1) I lied about the frame. But I did not intentionally put up a catalog picture to conceal the damage like some conspiracy theorists theorize. And I answered all emails asking how the damage was done saying it was from the crash. I was still getting used to the idea that my fairly small STUDENT checkbook would have to absorb at least half of the cost for the frame. Cycling is an expensive sport let alone crashing.
2) I have a bidder willing to pay $500 but yesterday I closed the old auction and reopened a new one before he could put a bid on.
3) I think any sane frame manufacture (especially the size of Cramerotti) will not cover a frame that was blatantly crashed. Thats not customer service... thats giving a freebee.
All in all I know I'm lucky to be alive and am very fortunate, blessed, whatever word you want to use that I still can use my checkbook let alone be riding.
|i got thru college with a 3.97 without lying. nm||Rubiks_Manuever|
Jan 27, 2003 12:16 AM
|i got thru college with a 3.97 without lying. nm||ngl|
Jan 27, 2003 2:58 PM
|frame sold for $3.87 on e-bay...wow!|| |