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Reader beware when it comes to advice on weight training(18 posts)

Reader beware when it comes to advice on weight trainingPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 18, 2003 10:30 AM
I posted this thread below but I feel it raises important points when people come on here asking for advice especially on weights. People on this forum are great about answering questions when it comes to anything. However, when it comes to weights with not many experts on this forum (althought there are some) there is a lot of well-intentioned misinformation which might not work great or could lead to injury as well.

Heres my post.

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I'm a fan of this forum in that people are willing to help other people drawing on their own experience. With shoes/pedals/components... even some training this is great.

However, once you get into excercises especially in the weight room if you weigh anyones advice greater than another person you may be in for some trouble. Out of all the people that answered at best I believe 2 are physiotherapists/personal trainers/or someone else with a lot of knowledge in this area. And although there was some good advice there was some bad as well.

For example a very well intentioned post doing leg press with you feet narrow since they are that width while pedalling. Great advice if we pedalled both legs at the bottom then kicked over instead of having the pedals opposite to each other. So you may go into the weight room and do this, however since your legs are so narrow you may 1) not be able to lift as much and 2) it may not be comfortable or even worse detrimental to your body. I've never leg pressed with my feet narrow so I don't know how it feels.

Irregardless though the weight room is a place to build strength which doesn't mean you must use the exact same range of motion as cycling. You just need to use your legs. Then with a periodized program over time you should shrink the ranges of motion to mimmick the cycling pedal stroke as much as possible where it will allow and do big gear stuff on the bike. Also remember size does not need to come with more strength.

I'd recommend spending the money on a personal trainer. But pick wisely... talk to a couple personal trainers with a kinesiology degree then pick the one who either seems the most knowledgable and talks about periodization and doesn't seem like they just want to get you in to make money off you. This way you spend the X ammount of money to get good coaching on your form and a good periodized program. You may need to go back a couple times especially when you change your program every month or two but in the long run you'll be less susceptible to injury and will have exponentially larger gains than if you try to figure it out on your own.

Nick
PodiumBound.ca
Agree. Get personal coaching from good, certified Trainer.Continental
Jan 18, 2003 11:00 AM
You'll never be able to sort out good advice from myths and flat out stupidity. Sometimes the worst advice comes from the tongues of the strongest, best bodies. The cost of a personal fitness trainer will give far greater results than any equipment upgrade you could purchase. Every training regimen needs to be personalized to get optimum results.
re: Reader beware when it comes to advice on weight trainingRaven1911
Jan 18, 2003 3:50 PM
I'm a physical therapist and with 10 years of weight lifting experience (I used to bodybuild). I also posted on the weight training thread and I did NOT take offense to what you say at all. I agree with you but keep in mind that going out to get a "certified trainer" is really easy (at least in CA)and most of them are right out of high school and got their "certificate" in a WEEKEND course. This does not mean they are knowledgeable in the area of working out and techniques with lifting. I would suggest getting someone that is CSCS specialized. This means 'certified strength conditioning specialist' which requires a much more intense education in lifting and physiology.

However, I think getting advice on different ways to lift on this site is good, providing that common sense is used with new techniques if tried. I have seen some very scary stuff in the gym even when a personal trainer is watching their client. I have even seen a personal trainer doing a neck manipulation on a client in the gym! These people are NOT healthcare professionals, although some would like for you to think they are. Overall, just use common sense as in when techniques are painful, do not do them. Just my 2 cents.

Raven
Why press with both legs at one?Spoiler
Jan 18, 2003 6:24 PM
Cycling is a series of alternating, single-leg presses. If you have a dominant leg, it will remain dominant. Try it sometime with medium weight and you might see a ridiculous difference between right and left leg ability. You have to start really low and use a slow movement to keep the knee stabilized. As an added bonus, you only have to load and unload half the weight.
Besides the pointPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 18, 2003 7:35 PM
Was my point about well intentioned bad advice or form on leg press?

But I agree single leg press is a good excercise to have in your program. However, by no means should it be the primary excercise. I'd leave that to the major excercises such as squats, deadlifts or benchpress. Over time with proper form squats and deadlifts will leseen leg dominance because you need so much stability to lift heavy. Whereas on the leg press your hips are pushed flat into the cushion so even if one leg is pushing harder its impossible to tell.

Nick
PodiumBound.ca
irregardless (nm)Frith
Jan 18, 2003 7:32 PM
is where i stopped reading.
I knew someone would point that out :-) (nm)biknben
Jan 19, 2003 9:10 AM
heh, heh, heh (nm)irregardless
Jan 19, 2003 2:57 PM
.
Thanks I'll keep in mind this is an essay contest :) (nm)PODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 19, 2003 10:43 AM
Don't mean to be a grammar nazi (nm)Frith
Jan 19, 2003 12:11 PM
Sorry man. I'm not trying to be critical or anything, if I was, there's more than enough grammar errors on this page to keep me busy for months (and that's just the ones from my posts :-)It's just that when that word (or non word) came up a couple of months ago. It sparked a pretty big debate in which the original poster seemed ready to defend the validity of "irregardless" to the death. Irregardless of all this, it's good to see that you have a sense of humour!
re: leg presses and recovering from knee injurycyclopathic
Jan 19, 2003 7:18 AM
one of the things you need to keep in mind on a contrary to common believe the goal of weight training issn't only to develop cycling related muscles but also correct muscle imbalance, which can result in injury.

Cycling is bad for your knees, it develops muscles in a way nature never intended to. Clipless pedals are esp bad. On upstroke pull you use top outer part of quad. This combine with underdeveloped inner part of quad /not used much in cycling/ eventually pulls knee cup out and causes perpetual knee injuries.

After riding some odd 250mi infested by 10-25% grade climbs in july I got to the point I couldn't do a flat tempo ride for more then 40min w/o getting knee pain. If continue in 1hr would reach intolerable levels. 8 weeks of corrective physiotherapy and 3 month later I can endure 6-8hr in saddle w/o taking 2 advils or aleves and crawling up the stairs next 3 days.

All visits to physiotherapist alone with massage, electrophoresis and stretching were dedicated to strength exercises aimed at "non-cycling" muscles. Squads? yeah, 10min on total gym at 10sec per squad with toes pointing out at 45deg.
Cycling is bad??seyboro
Jan 19, 2003 7:39 AM
Cycling itself is not bad for your knees, stupid cycling is. I sincerely doubt that the human body is designed to do leg presses or weight lifting at all. We were meant to go hunting and gathering, maybe dragging the odd sabre-tooth tiger back to the cave for dinner.
Over time, you will seriously iunjure yourself if you do exercises improperly, be it cycling, basketball, weightlifting, whatever.
Do it right and the benefits will far outweigh possible side effects, in any sport.
tell it to Jancyclopathic
Jan 19, 2003 8:02 AM
he /and many others/ will be excited to hear it.

with respect to improper exercising, it is my understanding that results may very upon genetics. Some subtle differences in bone shape, muscles etc may produce quite different outcome.

Stupid cycling? yeah guns don't kill people.. Unfortunately people who always know what it "right" and what is "stupid" in a blink of eye are least qualified to advice.

happy rides
tell it to Janseyboro
Jan 19, 2003 8:48 AM
True words, cyclopathic, true indeed. And sometimes, a little common sense goes a long way in avoiding overuse injuries...
The body was designed to adapt thoughPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 19, 2003 10:43 AM
The human body wasn't made to cushion the impact of running or ride or lift a lot of weight in a squating movement. However, it was designed to adapt and although some people can do these things easily with very little training most people need aids (running shoes, knee wraps, etc.) to allow them to do it.

Nick
PodiumBound.ca
The body was designed to adapt though53T
Jan 19, 2003 8:41 PM
On what theory or research do you base your statement that the human body was designed to adpopt? I know of no published interviews with the designer that mention this.

I think it is apparant that some design consideration was given to running, given the construction of the foot bones and the specialized flesh and skin structure on the bottom. This is not to mention the control system that allows humans to run after about 14 months of life, and allows running at incredible speed when properly trained.

If the human body is not designed to lift from the squat, explain Jenifer Lopez's hind quarters? Clearly the glutes and quads were built for strength and power.
re: The body was designed to adapt thoughcyclopathic
Jan 20, 2003 8:10 AM
Nick,

the point I tried to convey is that you do weight training not only to get faster but also to prevent injuries. Problem with many DIY "basic" weight training crash courses is that they target primary movers at expense of secondary and that is a ticket for injury. Our bodies evolved doing many different things, not just one. Our assessors were not just walking or running; they were hiking and trail running, climbing, jumping on rocks..
Agree w/ Nick...skimoviestar
Jan 19, 2003 8:32 PM
I agree w/ Nick's original post... but here is a good intro on the very basics by a CSCS and with a link to the National Strength and Conditioning Association's website as well.....

http://www.trainright.com/ctscafe/articles/2002/05022002NSCA-PTJ50.htm