's Forum Archives - General

Archive Home >> General(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 )

Cipollini bashes Lance!(48 posts)

Cipollini bashes Lance!PODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 12, 2003 12:53 PM
Cipollini takes a shot at Lance!

I guess this will put an end to why he drops out of the grand tours. It's because he does more than one!

It is true though... in the racing calender Lance normally only has one true peak. It doesn't change Lance being a great rider but it does make me curious about how much he'd win by (if he still won) if he did race more than one major race a year in peak form.

After seeing some info on what Cipo supposedly does for training (4 days on 1 day off... motor pacing at start... long ride on own... motor sprints at end) I'm also curious how scientific his program is compared to Lance's.

Specificity is killing the sport....(small rant)biknben
Jan 12, 2003 1:58 PM
All right maybe not "killing" it.but certainly making it boring.

Scenario #1:
A Flat stage race. A small group goes off the front and is allowed a 15-minute advantage. Unrepresented teams get jumpy and real them back in. Just as that happens, Mario cracks the whip and the zebra train takes shape. When he is the only zebra left he roars like the lion and demolishes the field in the sprint. Lance and others are just trying to keep him in sight.

Scenario #2:
A Long day in the saddle, over hilly course. Small group attacks at early climb but fades late. Everyone is just hoping to survive the day. At the base of the final climb, Lance grabs his mailbag and tells his buddies in blue it's time to deliver. He is towed up the climb until he is left alone with his main rivals. He then starts his ballet on wheels and spins away from everyone to take the hilltop finish. Mario is 30 minutes back screaming "Piano" to the rest in the grupeto.

These two guys will never go head to head. The debate over who is better is useless. The fact that all we can do is debate about it is what I find boring.

End of rant
small rant, ...maybe...but pretty good one neverthelessseyboro
Jan 12, 2003 2:51 PM
Well spoken, biknben, well spoken indeed!!
There are two things, I love to watch in a bike race these days: Cipollini at 47 mph on the flattest, straightest run in possible and Armstrong on a 12% final climb...
...the former spanking McEwen like the little bratty Wienerdog that he is and the latter showing the other 'race favorites' the back of a USPS jerey getting smaller in the distance...
Do I care who is 'better'? Nope.
While we're at it, y'all tell me: Who is the better driver? Jeff Gordon or Michael Schuhmacher? Soccer player? Ronaldo or Kahn? Tennis? Pete or Venus?
Oh well, you get the point. Let's just hope we all get to see one of the greats live and at their best. Now, that'd be worth something...
Well, the last one is easy. Pete. (nm)djg
Jan 12, 2003 3:38 PM
Gordon if only turning left..Shumy in EVERY other instance (nm)Bill is in Denver
Jan 12, 2003 4:15 PM
Who cares?eyebob
Jan 12, 2003 8:28 PM
You read this and you believe that it's all a friggin soap opera according to these journalists.

Jan 13, 2003 7:04 AM
I'd say it's never been more popular in the U.S., at since well before we were born.

The dumb Guinea is partially right butLazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 2:05 PM
there is more to Lance's plan than just "peaking at the right time". You would think by now that others would have used Lance's plan to try and win the TDF as well.
Guys like Cipo and McEwen race all season because they have no chance of winning the TDF and need as many wins
as they can get. Cipo never even finishes the TDF so what the fu$% is he talking about? It is a moot point because Cipo for as great as he is would never win the TDF no matter how hard he trained. He is not built for it nor is Lance built (nowadays at least) to win sprints. Isn't this all obvious?

Lance wins the TDF because he plans specifically for it plus the fact that he is well rounded in all aspects as a climber, strategist and time trialist. If it were that easy to just train for those 3 weeks, wouldn't everyone else have caught on by now?
yeah, how come no one ever mentions lance's TT abilitycollinsc
Jan 12, 2003 3:03 PM
If LA was such a one dimensional rider (that CIPO is doing the accusing is laughable) why does he beat the living sh*t out of everone in the TTs?

If you really have to bitch about who is better, the only way to solve that IMO is in a TT. and a real TT, not some pansy flat piece of crap, a good, well rounded TT. Now unfortunately lance didnt go to the WCs to butt heads with botero..but i imagine we'll see that confrontation yet in 2003 WC in canada.

Cipo can bitch about LA not racing enough. But id like to ask the ever obnoxious question of teams. Where would Re Leone be without his faithful Zebra Train?

probably not on top of the world.

that said, this is all garbage and all these racers are testosterone poisoned assholes. who cares what LA does in his race season? if you want to beat him, shut yer frickin yap and DO IT.
Correction: TTs in the Tour only...seyboro
Jan 12, 2003 3:26 PM
Let's forget the stage loss to Botero, no bother there. In other TTs (I only recall Armstrong riding in the Olympic TT), he places well, but hardly dominates. Wouldn't that little factoid prove Cipollini's point? Three weeks in July?
Can anyone tell me..........CARBON110
Jan 12, 2003 3:09 PM
How many races Cipo won this season, incluing stages, aand how many races Lance one including stages? I dont think there is a big difference as to wins which should explain it. Also, Zabel wins far more then Cipo every year, this is why hes #1 every year. But Cipo has been racing for like 4 years more then Zabel. Cipo had a great year but, what about last year. He didnt shine quite as bright and he certainly wont be up for next years World championship course being quite so easy. Put it together,Cipo is talking out his Ass for no good reason. I expected more class from a guy like that. But tell me this, Tyler Hamiliton spent $10k on watches he bought his team who rode for him in the Giro and Lance spends an average of $250k a year every Tour for the Tour team. What did Cipo buy his mates? Well, he bought himself a new Porsche but thats all I heard about....Perhaps McEwen and Cipo are great examples that Heroic Performance and Athletic ability doesn't mean depth of thought and charecter. obbie certainly has shownhe is as deep as my bath tub when it comes to common sense and anger managment. Whata jack ass that guy makes himself out to be publicly.
He stated the facts and include he respected LA nmPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 12, 2003 3:18 PM
Jan 12, 2003 8:08 PM
here it is: Lance vs Mario 2002 resultscdale02
Jan 13, 2003 10:51 AM
Here are their respective results for 2002. You can be your own judge as to which is more impressive.

Mario Cipollini 2002:

Tour Mediterraneen 2 1 14-feb-2002
Tour Mediterraneen 5 2 17-feb-2002
Trofeo Luis Puig 4 24-feb-2002
Volta a la Communitat Valenciana 2 2 27-feb-2002
Tirreno-Adriatico 7 1 20-mar-2002
Milaan-San Remo 1 23-mar-2002
Ronde van Vlaanderen 9 07-apr-2002
Gent-Wevelgem 1 10-apr-2002
Vuelta Ciclisita a Aragon 2 3 18-apr-2002
Giro dItalia Prologue 13 11-may-2002
Giro dItalia 1 1 12-may-2002
Giro dItalia 3 1 14-may-2002
Giro dItalia 4 2 15-may-2002
Giro dItalia 7 17 19-may-2002
Giro dItalia 9 1 21-may-2002
Giro dItalia 15 1 28-may-2002
Giro dItalia 18 1 31-may-2002
Giro dItalia 20 1 02-jun-2002
Profronde van Stiphout 4 30-jul-2002
Vuelta 3 1 09-sep-2002
Vuelta 4 1 10-sep-2002
Vuelta 7 1 13-sep-2002
Giro della Provincia di Lucca 2 8 02-oct-2002
Giro della Provincia di Lucca 3 2 03-oct-2002
WK weg 1 13-oct-2002

Lance Armstrong 2002:

Criterium International 1 94 30-mar-2002
Criterium International GC 2 31-mar-2002
Criterium International 2 7 31-mar-2002
Criterium International 3 3 31-mar-2002
Paris-Camembert 75 02-apr-2002
Amstel Gold Race 4 28-apr-2002
Midi Libre 3 2 24-may-2002
Midi Libre 4 3 25-may-2002
Midi Libre GC 1 26-may-2002
Midi Libre 5 4 26-may-2002
Dauphine Libere Prologue 5 09-jun-2002
Dauphine Libere 2 7 11-jun-2002
Dauphine Libere 3 2 12-jun-2002
Dauphine Libere 5 33 14-jun-2002
Dauphine Libere 6 1 15-jun-2002
Dauphine Libere GC 1 16-jun-2002
Dauphine Libere 7 37 16-jun-2002
Tour de France Proloog 1 06-jul-2002
Tour de France 1 30 07-jul-2002
Tour de France 7 91 13-jul-2002
Tour de France 9 2 15-jul-2002
Tour de France 11 1 18-jul-2002
Tour de France 12 1 19-jul-2002
Tour de France 14 3 21-jul-2002
Tour de France 15 9 23-jul-2002
Tour de France 16 3 24-jul-2002
Tour de France 17 24 25-jul-2002
Tour de France 19 1 27-jul-2002
Tour de France GC 1 28-jul-2002
Profronde van Stiphout 1 30-jul-2002
City-Nacht Rhede 1 02-aug-2002
Karlsruhe Versicherungs GP 8 03-aug-2002
Meisterschaft von Zürich 3 18-aug-2002
GP Eddy Merckx 5 25-aug-2002
2nd San Francisco GP 6 15-sep-2002
Mario's are mostly 1st and 2nd places...Bruno S
Jan 13, 2003 3:06 PM
Why don't you list the wins only? BTW The post-tour crits are arranged and the TdF winner always wins.

Mario Cipollini 2002:

Tour Mediterraneen 2 1 14-feb-2002
Tirreno-Adriatico 7 1 20-mar-2002
Milaan-San Remo 1 23-mar-2002
Gent-Wevelgem 1 10-apr-2002
Giro dItalia 1 1 12-may-2002
Giro dItalia 3 1 14-may-2002
Giro dItalia 9 1 21-may-2002
Giro dItalia 15 1 28-may-2002
Giro dItalia 18 1 31-may-2002
Giro dItalia 20 1 02-jun-2002
Vuelta 3 1 09-sep-2002
Vuelta 4 1 10-sep-2002
Vuelta 7 1 13-sep-2002
WK weg 1 13-oct-2002

Lance Armstrong 2002:

Midi Libre GC 1 26-may-2002
Dauphine Libere 6 1 15-jun-2002
Dauphine Libere GC 1 16-jun-2002
Tour de France Proloog 1 06-jul-2002
Tour de France 1 30 07-jul-2002
Tour de France 11 1 18-jul-2002
Tour de France 12 1 19-jul-2002
Tour de France 19 1 27-jul-2002
Tour de France GC 1 28-jul-2002
You can also look at UCI points......cdale02
Jan 13, 2003 3:33 PM
There are probably 100 different ways to compare riders, lenght of racing seasons, number of wins, number of grand tours completed, faster sprinter, better climber.

I think both riders are different and both are great. I never really like ESPY type awards such as "greates cyclist of the year" and stuff like that.

Anyway if you want to evaluate the cyclicts, maybe UCI points can be part of the equation.

01. Erik Zabel (ALE) 2,269 pts.
02. Lance Armstrong (EUA) 2,110
03. Paolo Bettini (ITA) 2,012
04. Robbie McEwen (AUS) 1,947
05. Dario Frigo (ITA) 1,772
06. Mario Cipollini (ITA) 1,749
07. Aitor Jiménez González (ESP) 1,551
08. Roberto Heras (ESP) 1,455
09. Davide Rebellin (ITA) 1,452
10. Michele Bartoli (ITA) 1,417
Respective wins...Wayne
Jan 13, 2003 11:44 AM
Armstrong (8 real wins + 2 crits) time range of wins goes from very end of May (Midi Libre) to the end of July (Tour de France). If wins were the sole criteria to judge for the length of the competitive season Armstrong gets 2 months.

Cipollini (14 wins, no crits for padding) time range goes from mid February at the Tour of Mediteranean to WK in mid Oct. Roughly 8 months.
Cipo and not finishingPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 12, 2003 3:15 PM
Cipo's specificity is in not finishing. He could but the thing is he'd probably marginally make it through the mountains with his teammates and may be able to combat the sprints on the last few days but it'd kill him for the majority of the rest of the season. Just Lance races the rest of the season at a lower level...

take team into consideration toocyclopathic
Jan 13, 2003 12:33 PM
there were only 2 or 3 riders in stripes left at the end of Vuelta so it isn't just Cippo. Second the point allocation in Vuelta makes it harder for sprinter to win points jersey.
are you Italian?desmo
Jan 12, 2003 4:47 PM
or just a country club white guy that uses kike, nigger, spic, etc. as part of your sparkling vocabulary. hate to get PC, but to see that in print is offensive.
I amLazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 6:40 PM
Italian and from Brooklyn. Therefore making me a Super-Guinea. I get a kick out of how you PC people try to extrapolate from one comment a whole perceived image of a racist. How about just having a sense of humor and seeing these names as mere words.
Where I come from, I truly was around many different cultures and we all goofed on each others nationalities and "differences" while still remaining friends. Stop being like "Meathead" on All in the Family with your hypersensitive PC bullsh$%.
Desmo, don't even botherjtolleson
Jan 13, 2003 11:11 AM
arguing with our troll-in-residence. He used an ethnic epithet just to get the goat of various readers. He's really not worth the trouble.

It is kind of like having a kid brother who keeps poking you with a stick. Transparently designed to annoy, and quite juvenile.
Kettle. . .js5280
Jan 12, 2003 4:08 PM
Mario is just as much a specialist as Lance, probably even more so. This got me thinking though. If Lance wins the TdF in 2003 and 2004, what do you think chances are he'll come back in 2005 and 2006 to try to snag the Giro and Vuelta for the sweep? He could do so and still retire before 35. . .
I don't think it will happenPODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 12, 2003 4:23 PM
I'd love to see him do it but I somehow doubt that will happen. It seems to me that from the show that was put on at last years Tour there definitely is a new generation of Lance, Marco and Ullrich's coming up through the ranks right now. With a couple more years racing who knows where they will be.

Cipollini also bashed Schumacher....Bruno S
Jan 12, 2003 4:20 PM
From Cyclingnews:

Mario Cipollini has responded to L'Equipe's recent naming of Formula 1 star Michael Schumacher as "Champion des champions" in typical style. Speaking at an end of year party held in his honour, Cipollini said that "Even though I wear the World Champion's jersey, I don't feel like a champion. However, he [Schumi] doesn't seem to me to have done any more than all those others who have achieved great things. Schumacher? Get on a bike and see how easy it is to win a race."

"I consider that sport is a competition in which a men counts for more than half, and that half is equal for all men. If I got into a Ferrari, after two hours I would do better times than most other drivers."

Finally, Cipollini commented on Lance Armstrong and his performances this year. "He is the greatest, huge, but for only three weeks. I have won from the beginning to the end of the season."
Cipollini brags about winning year round butLazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 4:50 PM
that is like the Lakers having the best record in the league but never winning the championship. The TDF matters and all else is less meaningful. That is just the way it is. Cipo is a stage by stage racer and could never win a well rounded multistage race that includes mountains. He is not built for it and shouldn't even question Lance's strategy. He is criticizing a guy who is winning the biggest race that he himself (Cipo) could never win or even finish for that matter. Cipo literally cannot finish the TDF. Mountain stages kill him. So how can he question any rider that can accomplish something he cannot? Just as people cannot take anything away from his ability and speed. He is awesome at what he does. Lance is just better all around. More skills.
What do you mean by 'more skills'? nmseyboro
Jan 12, 2003 5:36 PM
So the length of something determines the ammount of skill?PODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 12, 2003 5:53 PM
Both winning the Tour and winning a single sprint finish in the Tour (or any other race) require a huge ammount of talent, strategy and fitness. How you get that fitness and what you sacrifice for it is the only thing thats different. For speed you lose endurance... and endurance you lose speed. To say one requires more skill isn't true. Thats like saying Lance is more skilled than any other athlete because he competes longer. Come on!

no nick, but depth doescollinsc
Jan 12, 2003 6:44 PM
heh. i love it when you do this.

mario is good at one thing (great even) and that is going fast to the line

lance is good at a handful more things.

thats all lazywriter was talking about.
Thank You.Lazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 6:50 PM
Those handfuls make him the more "skilled". Cipo is awesome and fun to watch but has the guy ever even finished a TDF?
He shouldn't criticize a guy who has won four.
re: Cipollini bashes Lance!TREKY
Jan 12, 2003 6:27 PM
Wining the TDF requires all around skills and the ability to physically withstand all types of terrain.Thats what road and tours are about.Finding out who the best all around is.I think the last 4 years have shown us who the King is and Cippo himself has shown us who the court jester is.
Well, I guess skills is not the exact word but since you wantLazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 6:47 PM
to split hairs, Lance has more talents and "skills" with regards to being a better time trialist and climber. That is what I can see as "skills". Cipo is pure speed and great at what he does. Cipo is one dimensional and that doesn't win multistage races. HOW CAN YOU ARGUE THIS?
Point being that Lance could train to be a competitive sprinter while Cipo could never train to be a climber and time tiralist specialist based on the limitations of his own body build. In fact, Lance was as we all recall more of a one stage racer in his younger years. Much more muscular and powerful.
You can say Lance's skills are only based on one thing...PODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 12, 2003 7:05 PM
Its easy to say Lance's skills are only truely based on his amazingly high VO2 max + watts produced at VO2 max... this makes him a good climber/time trialist/then obviously lets him stay in the pack with ease. Cipo has a high enough VO2 max to stay in the peleton + very good max wattage which makes him an excellent sprinter. Where is the difference in the skills when you look at it that way? On one hand its like comparing apples and oranges since they are on completely different ends of the physiological spectrum (10 secs burst vs. hours and hours) but at the same time they are based in 2 (very) basic physical traits. The only difference may be the efficiency of Lance's pedalstroke but this is debatable.

As for the Cipo's train which pulls him to the line to sprint... Lance has his entire team pulling him up to the mountains and partially up as well as domestiques so he doesn't have to go to into the caravan. Its using whats available to you to win. Does it mean either still wouldn't win without these? Who knows but both would still do very well without a doubt.

Jeeze, this can go on and onLazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 7:31 PM
but let me ask you one thing. Would someone rather be remembered as a specialist who won 4, 5, or even 6 Tours De France or a great sprinter who won many stages and some 1 day races?
The answer is obvious and Lance was once more like Cipo in his style and skills but Cipo will never be like the modern Lance. Not in his genetics.
Yikes, I find myself agreeing with Lazywriter--djg
Jan 13, 2003 10:34 AM
both his basic point and his consternation at your (perhaps feigned?) confusion. By more skills, I gather that Lazy meant something like "better rounded." And by "better rounded," I mean more able to contest a greater variety of road races, over a greater variety of terrain. Looking to underlying physiological attributes that enable such abilities may be interesting or even useful, but pointing to what you call physical traits is a bit off point (apart from begging the question what taxonomy you adopt, according to which some sort of athletic ability depends upon one basic trait rather than two or twelve).

Look, I like Cipo. He's a great sprinter and fun to watch. I even kind of like the fact that he's a bit of a pisser, and I'm not at all hurt or offended by his comments about Lance Armstrong. Indeed, like many on this board, I both understand Lance's focus and wish that he'd try to hit a bit more of the season on high notes. But it seems plain to me that Lance is a more complete and rounded bike racer than Cipo and, indeed, that it has to be pretty damn hard, if not impossible, to win a grand tour without being a more complete racer than Cipo. Look at Big Mig. He ruled the TT in his day. But he wouldn't have won the tour (much less 5 in a row) if he hadn't been able to haul his rather large frame up the high mountain passes fast enough to hang with the pure climbers. Lance may have a short peak season (although some of the warm-up wins he picks up are pretty damn impressive), but at the Tour he rules on the tough climbs and also kicks butt in the TTs (the scandal last year was what--that he didn't win every TT stage?) And although he may not be a top sprinter he still can kick some (and showed quite a bit of ability in that dept. in his younger, and heavier, days)--hell, he's certainly more of a threat in a group finish than Cipo is at the foot of an Alp (I mean, ignoring the threat posed by a guy pulling off to the side of the road).
Good For Cipo...And A few More Things to Think About!BigLeadOutGuy
Jan 12, 2003 7:04 PM
You can't condem a man for speaking his mind, In some ways he'e right in some ways hes wrong...but thats his particular opinion. Lance is a great TDF rider and thats that....he barely races any other races so we have nothing else to really judge him by anymore. Most of the traditional cycling world frown upon lances approach because he does only race the TDF and doesnt make himself accesable in many other races like the great riders of years past. Its kind of like playing poker, winning big and taking everyone elses money but not giving them a chance to win their money back. Its kind of cheesy. Also cipo is a lot older than lance and I doubt that lance will even be racing when hes cipos age let alone winning stages at the giro and the vuelta and win a world championship at that age. You can bet that once lance loses the TDF he is kissing cycling goodbye. I am sure if he placed second in the tour 3 yrs in a row like jan he would have quit cycling a looooooong time ago. There is alot to be said for men who race a full season, obviously lance doesnt have the endurance to race the full season so he doesnt, just as cipo doesnt stand a chance in the alps so he doesnt. But hes out there day in and day out...see where lance is when hes 35 years old, im sure he wont be on his bike racing thats for sure.
But regarless of who wins this or that its not worth getting all worked up about like some of the other posters here becuase it doesnt effect us in the least..I dont think anyone on this board has the skill nor the talent to even criticize what either lance or cippo does. 99.9% if us would probably get dropped by them on their recovery rides. Thats why they are making their living racing bikes and were stuck with our 9-5s! =)
Yes, but Lance is the first toLazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 7:12 PM
admit that he trains specifically for the TDF. He has won the Tour of Swiss and Dauphene prior to the the Tours as well. It is not that he cannot win some of the other races, he just chooses to concentrate on the most important.
Like I said, IF IT WERE THAT SIMPLE(concentrating on the TDF and you will win), WOULDN'T OTHER RIDERS HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT BY NOW?
Cipo is a one dimensional rider and awesome at what he does. Lance doesn't aspire to be a one stage winner, but I assure you that Cipo has dreamed about winning the TDF. Actually, I guarantee you he has envisioned it. Never gonna happen.
my 2 centsAllezcomp
Jan 12, 2003 7:40 PM
Didn't Cipo set a record in 1999 for winning 4 TDF stages in a row? I like Lance but I think Cipo is cooler cause he has way more style and personality.
Oh, O.K.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Lazywriter
Jan 12, 2003 7:45 PM
4 stages in a row or 4 Tours De France in a row. What would Cipo prefer? That was a silly post, sorry.
Armstrong does what he is paid to do.MR_GRUMPY
Jan 12, 2003 7:53 PM
Postal pays Armstrong to win the TDF, period. Anything else is gravy. If that "anything else" interfers with that plan, it's out.
4 time winner...nuff saidRubiks_Manuever
Jan 12, 2003 8:55 PM
Whoever has the guts, stamina, power and integrity to conquer the sickest athletic event on the planet four years in a row of course automatically gets sh%t from those who cannot. It's the same sad story. Pathetic. Chip is awesome, but, like Il Pirate, can't stand the idea of a barbarian from Texas tearing apart the European peleton. As soon as either one of these guys WINS THE TOUR DE FRANCE FOUR YEARS STRAIGHT then I'll listen to their input. Nonsense.
re: Cipollini bashes Lance!upandcomer
Jan 12, 2003 9:33 PM
Cipollini's biggest claim to fame was winning the worlds this year at the age of 35 (i think) after many, many years in the sport. That is a pretty big accomplishment. Wow, the best in the world. Imagine winning it at age 21.
Jan 12, 2003 9:41 PM
BASTARD NEVER EVEN FINISHED ONE TDF. LMFAO. I was right, I thought that was the case and this guy has the balls to criticize Lance. Here is an excerpt from an article I found on the internet. He cannot even finish a TDF and he talks sh$#. Come on, how can anyone defend what he says. You look as stupid as Cipo that dumb Guinea. LOL No wonder we get that sterotype.

Cipollini pulls out ... Italian sprinting star Mario Cipollini also pulled out, saying he couldn't properly hydrate because of the soaring temperatures. The 'Lion King' has never finished a Tour, and though he came into this year's race with ambitions of riding into Paris, once he lost his chance of winning the green jersey, his early exit came as no surprise. "I couldn't eat properly and was having difficulty maintaining the fast pace of the peloton as they went to bring back the break," Cipollini said, showered and ready to head to the beach. "This Tour has been disappointing. I wanted the yellow jersey and the green jersey. I came here in good condition, but at least we won two stages." It was in the final third of the stage, when the peloton accelerated to bring back a six-man break, that Cipollini, Hamilton and the other 15 riders who finished behind the main pack started to have problems.
Lance doesnt care..He almost died 7 years ago!!(NM)James
Jan 13, 2003 1:24 AM
re: Indurain is the bestsyart
Jan 13, 2003 6:25 AM
I have read all your comments...I realized then, why Indurain has been the greatest!
Pure jealousy...James OCLV
Jan 13, 2003 1:16 PM
Everyone needs something to pick on. Lance has gotten more attention than any other cyclist in the last decade and IMHO, everyone who bashes or criticizes Lance is just jealous of his accomplishments. He's American, he's arrogant (although he's humbled a little since the big "C"), and he's dominated the TDF for the last 4 years. The Euro's hate all of that!

The bottome line is, none of them can do what Lance does. If they could, they would. They can't, so they do the only thing they can do - CRITICIZE!!!

The point is that Lance can be good at whatever he wants. Pre-cancer, he focused on 1-day races, and he started getting some results there too...

Lets see here, what about Beloki? 3rd in the TDF in the last 3 years - what other races has he won in '02? I'm sure there's some, but nothing noteworhty. Why doesn't anyone criticize him for focusing on the Tour? Same goes for Ullrich (when he races).

Actually, which of the top TDF contenders actually race a full season? None that I can think of!
cipo's comments not about lance...emptyhanded
Jan 14, 2003 8:13 AM
As often is the case with Cipollini, the comments really aren't about anyone other than himself. In his supposed criticism he states his respect for Armstrong, even calling him a champion, then goes on to talk about himself. It's just Cipo making sure everyone knows how great he is. Remember, this is the guy who "retired" during the TDF, probably because he hadn't seen his name in print for a week or two.

Don't get me wrong, I like Cipo. He's one of the greatest sprinters of all time, and is always colorful and quotable. It's just futile to analyze and debate such a throwaway comment from him. It also just reaffirms my opinion that procycling is much more gossipy than cyclesport, constantly trying to stir up drama in the peloton.

cipo's a pure sprinter, and lance is now a tour guy. arguing about lance and cipo is like arguing about campy vs. shimano.

actually, it isn't. at least campy and shimano are ultimately trying to accomplish the same objectives.
that's all too true...schimanski
Jan 15, 2003 9:30 AM
Still I wonder why everybody is always so blind...

How come it's only Cipo who's getting all the sh8 thrown at him for not finishing TdF?
Tom Steels and Kirsipuu have NEVER finished TdF and they're sprinters also. Nobody
ever cares one bit for them not finishing, then again they're not as good looking as Cipo
and not as 'cool'. And how on earth could Cipo have finished the TdF last two years when
his team wasn't even invited? Cipo also does Giro d'Italia and YES he did finish
it last year, but this according to most people means nothing at all because Giro is... ??? ...
not really a race at all (because Lance doesn't do it) and basically any idiot who can
ride a bike can win Giro d'Italia... or whatever.

Lance is great at what he does, this should be obvious, he wins TdF because that's what
his team wants him to do and that's what he has to do, therefore no Giro and no Vuelta.
For sure Lance is a cycling legend already and it's fun watching him, but would it really
lessen his achievements if he tried another GT even if he couldn't win it the same year
as he takes another TdF? I don't think so.