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new frame time: the battle begins(25 posts)

new frame time: the battle beginsCrazyMan
Jan 6, 2003 10:11 PM
I'm able to give my father, who's starting to ride, my Giant TCR, which means it is time for a new ride...I'm tall with long legs, and a short upper body...weigh 165 lbs. and ride 35-60 kms at a time, occasional crit and club rides. I'm looking, like evryone else, for stiffness, light weight, comfort, and value.
The candidates (with material, weight in grams, and price):

-Ciocc Slide: V107 with full carbon rear and Deda Black Blades fork, 1150 frame/460 fork, $1300.(stiff and light, but too much buzz?)
-Ciocc Pro Race: Eom 16.5 w/ full carbon rear and same fork, 1400 / 460, $1260. (Cheaper and steel feel, but too flexy?)
-Colnago CT1: 6-4 Ti with carbon rear and force fork, 1330 / 400, $1900 (colnago geometry and ti/carbon, but expensive)
-Look KX: Carbon w/ HSC4 fork, 1700 / 400, $1400 (Stiff, carbon, but heavy)
-Kuota Ksnao, Carbon with Mizuno fork, Unknown / 390, $1650 (cool, racy, stiff, light-ish, but not cheap and just ok geometry)
-Colnago Ovalmaster: 6-4 Ti, 1480 / 460, $1400. (stiff, paint, but harsh-ish? and heavy-ish.)

Thanks for any and all advice and feel free to make suggestions.
re: new frame time: the battle beginsThe Human G-Nome
Jan 6, 2003 10:28 PM
how long are you going to give yourself before you decide?
either Ciocc is my vote, but i have a little bias since i just bought one. if you're only riding 35-60kms at a time, i doubt you'd be dissapointed by the road buzz of the very high quality aluminum found on the Slide. also, i doubt you'd think the Pro Race was too flexy. EOM 16.5 gets some pretty high marks. where are you pricing them? i've never even seen a Kuota in person so i'd be interested to see how that rides if you went that direction, but i doubt you will considering your other choices.
re: new frame time: the battle beginsCrazyMan
Jan 6, 2003 10:52 PM
oops, turns out the kuota is 1180 grams for frame and 360 fork, and only costs $1299...that should put it into the serious running...we might have a winner. :)
re: new frame time: the battle beginsmorency
Jan 7, 2003 1:01 AM
frame weight of a Ksano Kuota, size 57 is 1360 gram
a friend of mine rides one, we weighed is before building up
stiff ride but not very comfortable,
re: new frame time: the battle beginsmorency
Jan 7, 2003 1:10 AM
my opinion
Colnago and Coicc are way to expensive for what you get, look is much to heavy, Kuota is "made in thailand" (they say made in Italy, hahaha) so price is an issue.
ever looked at Bottecchia or tommasini?
and undoubtable the best frame for the moment is the Giant composite frame!
Colnago CT-1bsdc
Jan 7, 2003 4:27 AM
Colnago CT-1 would be my choice out of the list, and it's the only one where your "but ..." doesn't include something wrong the ride of the bike. It's the most expensive, but might be worth it if you can afford it.
Another for the CT-1StevieP
Jan 7, 2003 5:49 AM
I don't own one but I wish I did! I would now be on the verge of ordering one if I had not already got 3 road bikes(one a Colnago) and thought I would get more benefit from spending the equivalent on a Klein Palomino MTB.

I like both disciplines - road in the winter and MTB in the summer (what there is of it in the UK!)

Besides, there is more a of a kudos with a Colnago than there is with a Kuota don't you think? Do you think that if you bought the Kuota you would think 'what if I had bought the Colnago'? I know I would. I don't think you would think 'what if I bought the Kuota' if you bought the Colnago!

I know price may be an issue but you should buy the bike & kit that you actually want and not settle for second best.
If you settle for second best you will regret it as I am sure you will later wish you had forked out a bit extra for the one you really wanted and then you will be frustrated.

My 2 cents. Not ridden either but I would buy the CT-1 without a test ride purely because it is a Colnago (and a Ti one at that).

Good luck whatever.
and another for the CT1spc15
Jan 7, 2003 6:46 AM
as long as the geometry/fit is right for you, I would go for the CT-1. I bought mine last fall and have never looked back - I could not be more happy with it. I have never looked back.

you can probably get the bike for less if you order it from Mike at Maestro -UK. (approx 1600 for frame with Star fork)
Another for the CT-1Mariowannabe
Jan 7, 2003 7:10 AM
Well put. Go for the 'nago. You only live once.
CT1 and get it from the Maestro...Bonked
Jan 7, 2003 6:49 AM
excellent service and the frame will only cost ~$1500. You'll get a great deal on pedals and components as well. If you know your size, you can't go wrong. is his website...check it out.
I guess spc15 beat me to it! n/mBonked
Jan 7, 2003 6:50 AM
Yep. (nm)djg
Jan 7, 2003 7:01 AM
and for ~ 63 more pounds from MaestroThe Human G-Nome
Jan 7, 2003 11:38 AM
you could get a Ciocc Oyster, full carbon. i could be wrong, but i believe this to be the exact same carbon tubes used on the De Rosa King. also, you'd be the only person on the block (in the state?) to own one.
youre wrongcollinsc
Jan 7, 2003 11:53 AM
its the fondriest P4
youre wrongThe Human G-Nome
Jan 7, 2003 1:06 PM
well, that's why i said "i could be wrong". never hurts to preface.
Ciocc is same tubes as Fondriestirregardless
Jan 7, 2003 2:53 PM
I think it's the same tubes as the carbon Fondriest, not the DeRosa King. The picture of the Fondriest at the Colorado Cyclist shows the same flat round portion on either side of the top tube as the Ciocc. Still a pretty good price, but not sure about the long term reliability or ride of the Ciocc carbon.

On the other hand, I have a CT1 with star fork and it is an absolutely plush ride. You should try the Colnago geometry to see if it works for you. The slack head tube angle makes descending very stable, by far the most stable and enjoyable ride I've had other than a C-40 which was about the same. Can't comment on the other frames, though.
Ciocc is same tubes as FondriestCrazyMan
Jan 7, 2003 10:05 PM
how would you compare the ct1 and the c40

Colnago.. THE geometry for long legs/short torso or arms.MXL02
Jan 7, 2003 7:10 AM
I am also short arms, longish legs, and the Colnago Geometry is perfect. The CT-1 is an awesome bike and, although expensive, it will be something you will keep and cherish forever. My vote is with the others...CT-1.
re: new frame time: the battle beginsThe Human G-Nome
Jan 7, 2003 9:05 AM
well, as long as you keep in mind that no one who is recommending a certain ride has actually ridden all of them so they really have no comparison (let alone ridden even 3 of them) then you'll be able to take the recommendations with a grain of salt.
Fair enough in my case--nearly boilerplate as a caveat.djg
Jan 7, 2003 10:06 AM
I recommend the CT1 only because I think it's a great bike and because I'm happy with mine. I admit that, although I've ridden a number of decent bikes, I have not tried the others on the list that started this thread. Indeed, it seems clear enough to me that even if I had my opinion would hardly be definitive--different folks look for different things in a bike.
a thoughtCrazyMan
Jan 7, 2003 10:29 AM
it was said that the Sintema Kuota is stiff but not very comfortable. Won't the upgrade to carbon equal a less jarring ride than my current steel frame, or can carbon be equally 'buzzy'?
a thoughtThe Human G-Nome
Jan 7, 2003 11:33 AM
if the frame is "not very comfortable" it most likely has much more to do with geometry then frame material. some people complain that the 381i is "too stiff", but it's really just rider preference. as has been said 1 million times before, comfort on a bicycle should be rated in the following order:

1) fit/geometry
2) seat
3) tires
4) frame material

not just IMO.
Can't Recommed the CT1 Enough!CT1 Guy
Jan 7, 2003 11:34 AM
I too have a CT1 and can't recommend it highly enough - like all other users, I can't say anything against the ride and handling - and of course it's a Colnago. Whereas I have one of the originals with polished Ti and lacquer, the current models in this finish are actually painted titanium colour and so I would avoid this finish- CTB I think. As I live only a short distance from Maestro I'd recommend Mike for his prices - but he don't take no truck from tire kickers...Mike also cuts a pretty good deal on Ciocc as well.
get a custom...Iwannapodiumgirl
Jan 7, 2003 1:54 PM
Geometry and fit is the most important aspect to consider... it has been said before, even in this discussion thread, and it will be said again even after me!

Most frame builders build "square" frames = equal, or near equal, seat tube and top tube lenght. Have you considered another sloping geometry - De Rosa, Bianchi, Fondriest?

Down here in Australia, you can custom build Tommassinis and Fondreists... both lovely frames and with a variety of materials. I am sure in the US you can do they same?

Just a few thoughts.

Good luck
For a good value....SantaCruz
Jan 7, 2003 2:34 PM
consider a Calfee Luna, $1300 for sub 3lb frame, stiff, and paint can be customized.