's Forum Archives - General

Archive Home >> General(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 )

Salon slams Armstrong.(27 posts)

Salon slams Armstrong.Thaddeus
Jan 3, 2003 7:44 AM
In a blistering critique of our beloved sport, yet another writer has displayed an enormous amount of ignorance and it all here:

It is just so dissappointing to see the ease with which the ability to ride a bike over a hundred miles for nearly three weeks straight - and that after a full season of training and racing - merits such an attack.

Hell, all serena williams does is runback and forth on a court for 2 hours swiping at a ball.

Write a retort...Mike-Wisc
Jan 3, 2003 7:48 AM is open to freelance writers, have at it. In fact I think I'll go and read the article then maybe submit my own rebuttal of sorts.
More people read the ingredients on a box of Baking Soda....Stinky Hippie
Jan 3, 2003 9:24 AM
...than read Salon.
As one of those few Salon readers...Souxsie
Jan 3, 2003 5:13 PM
I am quite surprised by this article. Salon is generally a left-leaning, global-thinking e-rag. Hardly the place one goes to get their fill of sweaty sports opinion. Kind of like asking Donahue who his favorite boxer is.

I went to check Mr. Kaufman's previous articles and they myopically center around American sports. No World Cup or Bicycling.

So since he only follows American sports his cocky opinion is worth about um...2 cents.

I would imagine it is more this particular section of Salon that gets read about us much as said baking soda box.
Another moron speaks out...MXL02
Jan 3, 2003 7:54 AM
about something he obviously knows very little. Why not educate the poor ignorant lad? Here's the email address to the editors of Salon: let's explain to Mr. Kaufman that winning the TdF requires more skill than "pedaling fast and not falling over."
For LA just knowing howtmotz
Jan 3, 2003 7:56 AM
to pedal up hill.A little short sided I think.
It just shows igorance on the authors behalf.
Americans can programmed for certain sports at a young age.
When I was young people pushed football,baseball and basketball on me,luckily I chose cross country and track instead.
He writes like a queen.Sintesi
Jan 3, 2003 8:30 AM
Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I think this guy is more qualified to write opinion on Julia Roberts ATROCIOUS BEHAVIOUR during the Oscars than sports. You know what I mean?
I love my cycling as much as anyone, but, you know, the guybill
Jan 3, 2003 8:30 AM
may have a point. It's not that cycling is as easy as he says it is -- there's a heck of a lot more to it than, for example, running -- and it's sick how we worship the heroes of almost any other sport, and it's a big world, the rest of which seems to think a lot more of cycling than he does, and Armstrong dominates in a way that he doesn't, evidently, begin to understand, etc., etc, but, you know, in terms of a combination of athletic grace and skill as opposed to cycling's fairly narrow technique and physical demands, I'm not sure how well cycling holds up to some other sports. Like tennis. Tennis combines power, poise, speed, strategy, endurance -- mental and physical, and skill, lots and lots of skill. You can be a great cyclist with varying degrees of a fair amount of these attributes in some combination, but you can't dominate some other sports unless you have all of them in spades.
And then, there is no arguing with success. Williams is a cultural icon or signpost or whatever in a way that no cyclist is. It just is what it is, no matter how hard we wish it were different.
I agree, and Lance is one of my sports heroeshrv
Jan 3, 2003 8:52 AM
You are absolutely right: any uncoordinated-in-all-sports moron could ride a bike, and in time, be fairly good at it.

This country doesn't give a rip about endurance athletes, and would rather pay homage to cigarette smokin' baseball players. Just the way it is.


ps: Way off topic, but my Athlete of All Time award goes to Eric Heiden. What he did in winning 5 gold speed skating medals was the true miracle on ice. 100% sure no one will do that again in my lifetime.
I agree, and Lance is one of my sports heroespedalruns
Jan 3, 2003 9:47 AM
Great bike racers are not just great endurance athletes.

Take Greg Lemond and Hinoult(sp?) in the 86 tour the two left the rest of the best behind on a descent on a mt. stage. No one could stay with them going down. It takes great skill and daring to go down fast. Lance is also a great descender. Salvadeli (the winner of the 02 Giro) is known for his descending skill. His nickname is "El Falco" or something like that. In the stage before everyone blew but him, he made up time on a descent that none of the other riders could follow him.

And then think of the sprinters... The skill these guys have is incredible.

Staying up right in rain and snow. Racing inches apart for miles and miles..

And then all the strategy involved in a long stage race. What break to go in? How far to let it go? When to start chasing? Who is in the break? When to make an effort or to save yourself... and so on...

So my point is bike racing is not all about endurance...

Maybe I should send an email...
I nominate Forrest Gump...hycobob
Jan 3, 2003 9:04 AM
He wasn't a real athlete?...or a real person? But for what its worth; ping pong requires all of those same qualities. Or for the true sports enthusiest, there is always the US Army Ranger competition. And they get to play with guns too. Imagine football where running the shotgun actually involved shotguns... How about Lumberjack competition...tree-spike hooks and chainsaws, woah daddy!!!
The thing that most of these writers forget...brider
Jan 3, 2003 8:46 AM
is that there's more to being a good "sportsman" than being good at your chosen sport. Sure, if you just look at sports performance, it's a total crap-shoot as to who should be at the top spot for these awards. And any one's particular bias towards a sport will color their choice (though clearly in this case the author is no big tennis buff). But it's the things that a person does OFF the field (or road in this case) and the character they display (that article about Lance meeting that kid brings me to tears) that makes a person a top "sportsman."

Charles Barkley publically declared, "I am not a role model."

Lance Armstrong very publically IS one.
why does this bother people?mohair_chair
Jan 3, 2003 8:48 AM
His opinion probably mirrors a large portion of America, which can't come as too much of a surprise to anyone here. I've never understood the knee-jerk reactions people here have for articles like this. It's his opinion. Clearly it's not an educated opinion, but it is his opinion and he's allowed to think that way.

Most Americans are raised on football, baseball, and basketball and understand as much about cycling as they do curling. I know nothing about curling, but from everything I've seen, it's about sliding stuff on ice, and how hard can that be?

It's a shame this guy doesn't have any idea how good a season Lance had last year, but how would he know? I don't recall the Midi Libre or Le Dauphine showing up on network TV on a Saturday or Sunday morning, unlike Serena's three grand slams.
most americans are narrow minded, if it looks easy it is easywheelsucker
Jan 3, 2003 9:13 AM
I was raised on traditional american sports but now would rather watch bike racing over any of them. I went home to visit my parents last may near the end of the giro. I wanted to watch the TT and see if Tyler would win but my dad said, "who cares who wins, its a stupid bike race." race car drivers and even a horse jockey was named SI sportsman of the year, how much flack did they take. How hard is it to turn left?? yet there's millions of NASCAR fans in the US. Most americans don't see the whole picture, if it looks easy it must be easy.
That's the point tho, isn't it?Sintesi
Jan 3, 2003 9:41 AM
If the guy doesn't know what he's talking about he probably should know better that to voice an opinion. I mean if the guy's a pro writer shouldn't he offer omething more than a pedestrian opinion?

Anyhoo, ultimately we're talking about a silly sports award that won't mean anything to anyone in a year when the next person (probably Serena) is chosen.
Since when has ignorancemoneyman
Jan 3, 2003 10:32 AM
Prevented someone from spouting an opinion? I can think of plenty of examples. Not only some that you can probably think of, but professional writers as well.

Not this guy53T
Jan 3, 2003 10:49 AM
The author was obviously not raised on football, baseball and basketball. His favorite for athlete of the year would clearly be a woman, any woman.
You slammed curling!!!RCA
Jan 4, 2003 8:32 AM
Ok thats it. You slammed curling! Its winter up here north of Toronto so the bikes are away and the hockey gear is out.When we are not playing hockey at 11pm on a week night we curl. why? If you sit in the Legion drinking you are a lout.But if you curl for 2hours then drink for 4 you my friend are a CURLER. If a tennis ball was made of pure granite maybe just maybe it would be worth playing.
You know it doesn't really bother mePODIUMBOUNDdotCA
Jan 3, 2003 9:54 AM
I understand where the guy is coming from. I agree that he underestimates what it takes to be a world class cyclist let alone win the Tour de France... after beating cancer.

But at he same time I can see why he's frustrated. To him 1) cycling is an easy sport and 2) Lance has won the race a couple times... big deal... Serena Williams won 8 out of 13 tournaments this year making a breakthrough in her career. A much bigger accomplishment. Just like people on here are narrow minded when comparing Lance's accomplishments to other racers in the sport of cycling. If anything most ignore the other racers because Lance's one race a year is a much bigger feat when in reality it isn't that much bigger.

transcending tennis? cultural icon? mb Cipo instead of WilliamsWise
Jan 3, 2003 10:36 AM
these things confuse me...

its an athlete of the year award, not a fashion prize. Whether Armstrong is deserving or otherwise, this author seems way too focused on debating the merits of bibshorts or knee-high socks, and somewhat less concerned with athletic prowess.

In my opinion, if there is one thing the American sports world in general could do better without, its the kind of pop icon status great athletes are often reduced to. Fortunately, the relative obscurity of cycling in the US, to a certain degree, protects its stars from the irony and contradictions of stardom in say the NFL. I have yet to witness any high school kids wearing XXXL USPS jerseys and a sagging pair of castelli bibs.

Anywhoo, the article made me wonder how Kaufman would feel about cycling if he knew about Cipollini and the A & S zebra get-up.

Maybe someone should email him a pic or something... Is Cipo the best cyclist because he wears the most garish shit?
in a somewhat unrelated note:
Oh god, I am really fearing the limitless hordes of cyclists i'll soon see wearing the Heineken/Tag Heuer kits. And I thought the ben and jerry's jerseys were annoying ..
Much better article from Salon...Bruno S
Jan 3, 2003 10:49 AM
What did you expect from a magazine that reviews sex toys?
The writer looks like a porn producerLeroy
Jan 3, 2003 3:48 PM
And is likely a little light in the mocassins. Not only does he slam Lance, but he takes a swipe at Anna Kournikova! Is he crazy?
What is this 'Salon' ? beauty salon, or what ??
The writer has a good point...Breakfast
Jan 3, 2003 9:28 PM
...only if your idea of sports participation is hanging around Hooter's screaming like drunk idiots at a big screen with a bunch of ball cap wearing, beer drinking lonely single guys who couldn't ever get a date and who spend their time and measly paychecks tipping dumb women in t-shirts who normally would ever give them the time of day.

Then, the guy makes a perfectly good point.

The fact that he writes a column for a left-leaning e-rag only punctuates his ignorance.
Oh, c'mon, man. Look, I pay absolutely no attention to probill
Jan 4, 2003 6:23 AM
basketball, but do you really believe that Armstrong's domination of cycling is on a par with Michael Jordan's domination of basketball (before the first retirement, anyway, maybe even the second)? Jordan played how many games a season for how many seasons (don't ask me, but it was more than three or four races a season for four years, anyway -- yeah, I know that Armstrong has been racing since the early nineties) where he absolutely dominated, and he showed a supernatural physical and mental poise and agility through nearly them all. This does not mean that Michael Jordan could ride a bike worth a sh*t any more than Armstrong could compete in the NBA. But if you're trying to compare whose quiver of athletic skills and gifts is bigger, I'm going to say Jordan's.
Plain and simple, Salon is an @SSHOLE!!!!(NFM)James
Jan 3, 2003 10:29 PM
Angry letters to SalonSouxsie
Jan 4, 2003 7:08 AM
Here is the link to all of the responses to Kaufman's assinine article.
My letter to this moronLazywriter
Jan 5, 2003 12:47 AM
King Douchebag, you are truly a fu#$ing idiot. Your whole pathetic, poorly written and poorly thought out diatribe about Lance's worthiness of an award from a publication you don't even write for proves you are retarded. You are a second rate writer who cannot even land a job with a real publication and you comment on a sport you know nothing about.
In fact that is the whole premise of your article. The idea that cycling is not "popular" in our country therefore you exclude athletes of that sport despite the huge and historic accomplishment. The idea that an american wins a european sport 4 times in a row when the majority of France hates the fact that he wins "their" race is worthy of the award every year. It is not a popularity contest you idiot, it is an acknowledgement of a great athlete.
You obviously know nothing of cycling and think that the Tour De France is simply pedaling up hills fast. It is the most grueling sporting event in the world. I always use this example to prove a point. Take any athlete in the major sports (NBA, NFL, Tennis etc). They couldn't complete one mountain stage of the (let alone 3 weeks) Tour De France without dropping dead. Not Serena, Shaq, Micheal Jordan no athlete in these sports. The guy can time trial for an hour at 35 mph. You are a jerkoff if you cannot envision the superiorority of this athletic feat which is not close to anything some fat baseball or football player can even come close to doing.
Now, Lance could get through any of the other sporting events without even exerting himself in comparison altough he may not be any good from a skill perspective. His VO2 max is freakish as is his resting heart rate. Lance could hypothetically get through 4 quarters of an NBA game running at full speed.
Your whole article clearly shows your lack of intelligence. You equate athleticism with popularity when you should look objectively at the feat accomplished. Are you still in high school? Seriously, you need to be fired for being an idiot.