|Integrated headset. Which is better...||pa rider|
Dec 9, 2002 5:16 AM
|I'm Buying a new LOOK 461 2003 model bike. Since it's integrated headset and LOOK gives you a cane creek headset, I have a choice. I'm getting a campanogo centaur groupo that includes an integrated headset.
Which is better to have installed? I had problems with the cane creek Aheadset models two years ago and put a chris king on my R600 cannondale. I'm not sure if I want to bother with them again, but not sure how the campanogo compare.
Any info will help.
|Stay away from Cane Creek||DuraAceBob|
Dec 9, 2002 6:09 AM
|The bearings suck real bad!|
|re: Integrated headset. Which is better...||divve|
Dec 9, 2002 6:10 AM
|Got a Campagnolo Hiddenset on my CAAD7. It works flawlessly. Cannondale specs the higher-end bikes with the Crampy headset and the lowe-end with Cane Creek, so that might be an indicator.|
|re: Integrated headset. Which is better...||motta|
Dec 9, 2002 6:13 AM
|The Look frame has an integrated headset and the Campy one is a Hidden Set (Campy speak for Zero Stack). They are not interchangeable.|
|re: Integrated headset. Which is better...||pa rider|
Dec 9, 2002 8:13 AM
|Thanks Motta, but I'm a little confused. I haven't got a bike with this new integrated hidden set for headset yet. This is my first bike, so my question may seem dumb for you guys.
What is the different between a hidden set an integrated set? All I know is LOOK is giving you the cane creek with the frame and fork. Are you telling me the only good upgrade option for the head set would be a record headset? I seen last year Cannondale did this with their bikes.
Just asking because I may want to do the upgrade now instead of later. The LBS I'm working with is in "Ski mode" now. They are pretty busy selling skies and I'm just a pest trying to order a new bike now. I been working the lbs for two weeks, but need to make sure he builds the bike correctly for me.
I'm getting a whole centaur groupo, but don't need all the parts. So I'm trying to see which parts he can give a discount on the groupo (hubs, and headset for example). Wasn't sure if the centaur headset could fit on this LOOK frame.
It's hard for me to get a good answer from the LBS because they don't sell alot of LOOK bikes last year. My answer about the headset will be easy once he see it won't work on the frame.
Boy do I have a lot to learn with this integrate or hidden set now. That's why I liked my chris king. You put it on and forget about it.
|re: Integrated headset. Which is better...||weiwentg|
Dec 9, 2002 7:31 AM
|my Cane Creek ZS headset has, so far, been OK (have one on the road bike and one on the MTB). unless the headtube is not round, you shouldn't have to worry. I would personally trust Campy more, of course, but their hiddenset is not, as was mentioned above, compatible with the zero stack. they are two completely different standards.|
|re: Integrated headset. Which is better...||Ye Olde Balde One|
Dec 9, 2002 10:09 AM
|You cannot replace a Cane Creek Integrated headset with a Campy Hiddenset. While the concept is the same, the standards for the bearings are different and not compatible.
The only other headset I am aware of that fits the Cane Creek dimensions is made by Tiso in Italy (using Swiss bearings).
There is no Centaur headset, so I assume it's a Record or Chorus Hiddenset they can include with the group.
|Hold on a second...||PsyDoc|
Dec 9, 2002 10:23 AM
|...as I am somewhat confused. I was told by Merlin that they re-designed the races on their bikes to accept either the Cane Creek or Campagnolo headset. I guess in some cases Cane Creek and Campagnolo are interchangeable, but depend on the bike manufacturer.|
|that's what I'm being told as well....||pa rider|
Dec 9, 2002 11:03 AM
|since I'm getting a 2003 LOOK bike. The LBS said the campagnolo and cane creek are the two popular modules. I knew he was talking about the IS system, refering to the S6 cane creek intergrated headset.
But I thought the campagnolo hiddenset was the same thing. I'll leave you know if the campagnolo fits my frame because I rather go that route.
Thanks for the info everybody.
Dec 9, 2002 11:32 AM
|Emory-- You are talking about two different systems. The Campy Hiddenset is a proprietary system that is not compatible with integrated headsets. It must be used on a frame that is made for that specific type of headset. It doesn't matter if it is Centaur or Record. If the Look frame you are buying uses an Integrated headset than the Hiddenset one will not work. The integrated system uses a shelf or lip that is machined into the headtube. This is where the cartridge bearings will rest. If the LBS that you are dealing with doesn't know the difference or they feel you are being a pest, find another one. Any good shop would love to sell you this frame and group, especially at this time of year. My advice to you is to keep the Cane Creek you get with the frame and use it until it wears out, if ever, you are paying for it anyway. Cane Creek makes excellent products and most of the opinions about the quality of this or that manufacturer are just that, opinions. Look feels strongly enough to spec them on the frame and if you feel confident riding that frame than you should feel confident in the headset they choose to put on it. Have fun with your new bike, and don't get hung up in the minutia of which is better. At the level you are buying it is all well made, it is more important to get a frame that fits and to get the service you deserve from the LBS. If you can't get service, mailorder it an save some money.|
Dec 9, 2002 12:09 PM
|Agreed, Hiddenset and Integrated HS are different.
Cyclingnews.com ran a good article on types of headsets and standards(integrated vs internal, etc). The info was supplied by Park Tools, and you could also find it on their site.
Dec 9, 2002 1:12 PM
|yup here is the article it was a good one
But also I think Looks *integrated* may be a misnomer....Seems more like a zero stack or integrated with cups?
This is Looks own description
Integrated patented LOOK head set :
The patent is based on two removable cups in the head set :
1/ In case of a damage in the head set kit section, the frame can not be damaged itself
1/ Can adjust any head set kit on the market just removing those two cups (36° et 45°)
|Thanks for article. Same goes for the cup info on LOOK(NM).||pa rider|
Dec 9, 2002 3:10 PM
|Thanks Motta...||pa rider|
Dec 9, 2002 3:17 PM
|My LBS is a good shop, but he doesn't take the time to explain everything to you. I'm an system Analysis and people in my field do the same when its techinical issues your asking. They always try to make you seem like a dumb ass and they know what they're talking about.
I think the part Flying gave me from LOOK is the part that my LBS is trying to explain to me. I don't know if the new LOOK's have a removable cup, for damage purposes, as they describe. My LBS got a 381I two years ago and he still uses the canecreek.
I'm going to take your advice and stick with the canecreek IS system. I may not even have a problem with it since it's cartridge bearings.
Boy do you guys know where to find the techno information when you need it.
|re: Integrated headset. Which is better...||flying|
Dec 9, 2002 11:27 AM
|I have not had any problems with the cane creek on my 381i
Been using it since September.
|re: Integrated headset. Which is better...||pa rider|
Dec 9, 2002 3:23 PM
|Thank flying. If you get a chance to see the 2003 models checkout the new frame they got. I think the model was 486 or 481. My lbs left me look at his catalog, so I can't confirm the model number. It's better than the 381i. It cost about $2699 for frame and fork.
Who said you need to buy a Derosa king or ct1 to get highend carbon bike at a great price.
|Cane Creek/Campy integrated no difference||Lazywriter|
Dec 9, 2002 7:51 PM
|I mean the design in and of itself is simple and CC has different models with cheaper IS-2 or the more expensive IS-6 bearings. I actually had issues with the Campy Hiddenset on my Litespeed Vortex (binding) and went to CC and it is fine.
The whole thing with the Integrated Headset has really taken the responsibility away from the headset manufacturer and placed it on the frame manufacturer to make perfect headtubes. The actual integrated headset is less important and is so simple that the whole idea of buying the "best" headset is less of an issue now. My cheap Ultegra headset has been flawless for the past 5 years and it is more complicated than any integrated headset.
To be honest, I think threadless design is more finicky in general with the compression adjustment etc than the integrated design. People complain about headsets not holding their adjustments and what not and often it is a threadless set up be it integrated or traditional. I think Integrated gets criticized unnecessarily sometimes. You need quality bearings, but CC higher end is just as good as anyone elses.