|Lowering the one hour record?||trekkie1|
Nov 15, 2002 6:56 AM
|What's wrong with this story? --
Cycling-Nuttli attempts to lower Boardman's time trial record
GENEVA, Switzerland (Reuters) - Swiss cyclist Jean Nuttli will attempt to break Briton Chris Boardman's two-year-old one-hour world track record in Bordeaux.
Nuttli, 28, will attempt to set a new mark by lowering Boardman's record of 49.441 kilometres in one-hour around Bordeaux's 250-metre circuit.
"I am more than optimistic that I will break Boardman's record," Nuttli told Swiss daily Blick.
Boardman set the record in 2000 when he beat Belgian Eddy Mercks' 1972 mark by 10 metres.
Who would want to "lower" the one hour record? Heck, I could do that. You are not lowring the time, so the only thing left is distance, right? I'd bet a million dollars I could lower the record.
By the way, why is it that these relatively obscure racers are the ones pursuing the record? Why not the big names like Armstrong and Ullrich?
|Just weird grammar||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Nov 15, 2002 7:11 AM
|The use of unclear grammar just makes it sound very weird. Whether or not you raise or lower a world record is debatable. I guess you should just raise the distance and lower the time.
As for why relatively obscure riders attempt to break the hour record I'd say (and I could be wrong) that the preperation time is just too much when focusing on the Tour.
|Kinda hard to lower the TIME ...||Allez Rouge|
Nov 15, 2002 7:15 AM
|... for a world record involving the distance ridden in one hour. ;-)
Reuters is generally more careful than this. You want botched grammar, you generally gotta look to the AP.
|Lower the time taken to cover a given distance? (nm)||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Nov 15, 2002 9:24 AM
|There's no money in setting records...||TJeanloz|
Nov 15, 2002 7:12 AM
|Setting a new hour record can get the publicity to move a second-rate pro from obscurity to a good D-1 contract. For Armstrong or Ullrich, there isn't any upside, and there is the potential embarrassment of not setting the record.|
|who would be best able?||trekkie1|
Nov 15, 2002 7:23 AM
|Among active racers, who do you think would be best able to break the record if he really wanted to? Is Armstrong the obvious choice, or is he really just superior when he does a timetrial amidst a 2000 mile stage race?|
|The TerminAITOR (Gonzalez). (nm)||Spunout|
Nov 15, 2002 7:30 AM
|Dunno, maybe Armstrong, Botero, Bodrogi, Gonzales etc nm||castrello|
Nov 15, 2002 7:41 AM
|One trick pony||PEDDLEFOOT|
Nov 15, 2002 7:35 AM
|You can almost equate it with long distance driving contests or records in golf.The great players don't get involved in those for the same reason.Also if they did they may not win.The type of guys doing these events are almost all one trick ponies who might do one thing really well be it a one hour trial or a long distance driver.In the long run though they don't have the complete game to compete with the true talents of their respective sports.|
|One trick pony||scruffyduncan|
Nov 15, 2002 7:40 AM
|I wouldn't call boardman a one trick pony, he was a great track cyclist.
Also, remember the pony who's record he beat
Nov 15, 2002 8:13 AM
|Graehme Obree? He was a one-trick pony...||TJeanloz|
Nov 15, 2002 8:41 AM
|Boardman only beat Merckx' record because the UCI changed the rules to negate records set after Merckx, including the one set by Boardman earlier.|
|but it's one helluva trick! nm||trekkie1|
Nov 15, 2002 8:54 AM
|There ought to be two hour records...||merckx56|
Nov 15, 2002 8:52 AM
|One should be the absolute hour record for aerobar equipped
set-ups. I'm not saying HPV or any of that nonsense, it should still look like a bike. Then there should be the "traditional" hour record that we here in town lovingly refer to as "Merckx-style". I think this would precipitate more attempts at one or the other, instead of some dude who no one has heard of doing it in an effort to get media play.
Can you imagine Lance or Botero in full TT mode on a huge geared aero track rig circling at 60kmh???
|how do you spec "looks like a bike"?||DaveG|
Nov 15, 2002 9:47 AM
|I have no idea how you allow any type of vehicle as long as it "looks like a bike"? I like the current "traditionalist" restriction on the record as it levels the playing field to basically just the rider. I could imagine a second record with any type of HPV, but basing it on looks seems awfully subjective.|
|maybe the UCI time trial bike spec? nm||trekkie1|
Nov 15, 2002 10:18 AM
|how do you spec "looks like a bike"?||merckx56|
Nov 15, 2002 11:05 AM
|like Boardman's full superman set-up. None of the fringe, fully-faired and enclosed HPV crap. Those guys already do their own speed records. No recumbents either! I seriously doubt that a fully-faired HPV could have any sort of control on a banked 250 or 333 meter track anyway. Take the UCI standard and bend it a bit. Two of the same size wheels, no fairings, aerobars, discs are allowed. Looks like a bike is pretty self-explanatory to me!|
|There ought to be two hour records...--60 Km, you must be kiddin||waynebo|
Nov 15, 2002 10:25 AM
|60km/hour--that is quite unrealistic as Boardman's "superman" record is high 56km/hr and Rominger's record of 55+ is probably more realistic in terms of human achievement, as his position was less aero than Boardman. Also, "Big Mig"best was in the 54km range. All these guys are horses compared to us but IMHO Greg Lemond probably would have set the record that would still stand. What is my basis for this? His VO2 max was 92 ml/kg. Big Mig 88 and Armstrong about the same. Lemond's TT to win in '89 is still the fastest and the aero equipment he used to win would be pitifully inadequate today. Lemond would have won 6 tours had he not ridden for Hinault in ''85 and missed the 87/88 tours do to recovering from a gun-shot. Those would have been peak years for him given his age. To me, Armstrong is very gifted and probably wins the tour in the mountains but he is not as dominating in the time trials. He still wins but by seconds, not minutes. He could do a 54-55km hour but no way could he do 60, no freaking way.|
|I don't know,||TJeanloz|
Nov 15, 2002 10:42 AM
|Armstrong averaged nearly 54 kph for 1:05 (stage 19; 2000), the fastest average over a course of more than 30k. With specific training, on a track at altitude, he might be able to approach 60k. It's unlikely, but in the realm of possibility.
LeMond's time trial was fast- but only 24k long, which really doesn't put it in the same league.
|Lets not forget...||Wayne|
Nov 15, 2002 10:50 AM
|that in road TTs you can have a net elevation loss, and a favorable wind. Not to mention you rarely can go downhill fast enough to recover the time lost going uphill since drag isn't proportional to speed. So anything but flat on a course with no net elevation change should slow you down. In short, too many variables to predict an hour record pace from a road TT pace. I'm sure I could find lots of TT's on the road where Lance didn't go faster than 50 Kph.|
Nov 15, 2002 11:03 AM
|I you know someone's average power output and their aero drag numbers, both of which are available for Lance, wouldn't you be able to get pretty close to predicting his hour speed?|
Nov 15, 2002 11:15 AM
|that would do it, but I don't think those numbers are really available. Cobb probably has the aero numbers and you always hear 6-7watts/Kg as the power at LT to climb well enough to compete in the tour. You would need somekind of raw power number for a flat roughly hour long time trial, I don't know if that is out there?|
Nov 15, 2002 11:34 AM
|I've read that Lance can average around 500 watts for an hour, and pushes about 5.5 pounds of drag, but on his time trial bike. Aside from the mixed units, can't that get you close to estimating speed? I have idea how to do it, though.|
|with specific training...||merckx56|
Nov 15, 2002 11:17 AM
|and favorable conditions I think that Lance or Botero or even Ullrich (if he's off the creamy cakes!) could break the 56.375 that Boardman put up. Remember, aero tweaks have made more than a few advances since Boardman's absolute record. I also didn't say he could average 60kmh, I said imagine him circling at 60kmh! Avering 54kmh on the road and 54kmh on the boards are two totally different animals and must be looked at as such. BTW- hindsight is 20/20 when it comes to saying who could have done in the past. Granted, Lemond was very fast and had fewer aero advantages, but the desire to win the Tour in 1989 drove him as well. He never averaged a TT speed anywhere close to that before or after that particular day in 1989. as for Lance's domination,
maybe you also missed that TT in the Tour when Lance blew by Olano, who was the reigning TT World Champ at the time.
He wasn't as dominating last year because everyone else has realised that they nedd to raise their game. He has regularly put a minute+ into the likes of Olano, Zulle, Julich, and yes, even Big Jan. He did pretty much kick everyone's ass in the last TT in 2002 though!
|with specific training...||waynebo|
Nov 15, 2002 12:36 PM
|I still don't see Lance breaking 56k on a track. Boardman had track riding experience, which helped him considerably, as did his position. Rominger's mark is the one I think is more applicable due to the fact that Boardman's position was outlawed after he set the record. How convenient. Big Mig was terribly inefficient on the track when he set the hour record, only to have Rominger destroy it on successive occasions. Despite improved aerodynamic equipment and training, the differences between a Rominger and a Armstrong physically are negligible. If he routinely puts a minute into the competition he may be able to top Rominger and I'd like to see him try. I don't think he will because he is singularly focused on the Tour so when would he train for the hour? BTW, Rominger was a real scientific nerd when it came to training, just like Armstrong. As far as Armstrong blowing by Olano, what does that mean. Maybe Olano blew up or wasn't feeling well. When was the last time Armstrong won the World TT Championships? Armstrong is an excellent one-trick pony but to stamp his palmares (and future debates about who was the greatest), he'll need to achieve in other venues.|
|with specific training...||TJeanloz|
Nov 15, 2002 12:55 PM
|I'm not a huge Armstrong fan, but to put him in the 'one trick poney' bucket isn't really fair. How many cyclists have won at Alpe d'Huez and have an Olympic medal for the time trial? He never won a worlds TT, but did finish 4th- which isn't too shabby. Armstrong's Palmares are as deep as any rider currently in the field. To think that pre-cancer, it was assumed that he was a one-day race kind of guy, not tough enough for a grand tour shot, it is interesting to now have him lumped in the 'grand tours only' group.|
|How Long does the hour take you? I can do it in one hour. (nm)||Spunout|
Nov 15, 2002 11:52 AM
Nov 15, 2002 12:59 PM
|Possibly a better phrasing would be "....set a new mark by improving on Boardman's distance of ....."
Nobody can lower Boardman's record. To do that, you'd have to time-travel back, and slow Boardman down to the point where he still breaks the Merckx record, but doesn't reach 49.441 kilometers.
Boardman's record is, in a sense, a past event. Nothing can change it.
He can set a new record of his own.