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Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rug(30 posts)

Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rugcollinsc
Oct 31, 2002 6:27 PM
http://www.sevencycles.com/weeklynews/weeklynews.html
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under ruglegs
Oct 31, 2002 6:44 PM
I agree with seven...
Brah!Ahimsa
Oct 31, 2002 6:48 PM
Heh heh heh heh !

I guess someone from Seven has seen our comrades thread, no?

Funny. When did that go up?

I suppose they have put it up in response to the frame issue JTolleson had so as to avoid any future returns. They are right in their position on the issue, but she had SEVEN cm of overlap and that is a bit much under any circumstance I think.

Good stuff.

A.
dunno when it went upcollinsc
Oct 31, 2002 7:03 PM
I do agree with them. They are right, I agree with you. That doesnt mean, though, that they cant solve their customers problems in a friendly manner.

Oh well, at least someone is listening.
LOL, I was thinking the same thingKristin
Nov 1, 2002 11:10 AM
Interesting timing for that topic to appear on their website. Do you think that JT's SEVEN cm of overlap on her SEVEN custom is just a coincidence?
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rugpmf1
Nov 1, 2002 4:40 AM
They used to have a pretty amusing article on the pitfalls of 6/4 ti tubing on there.
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under ruggtx
Nov 1, 2002 7:27 AM
I think a year or two ago they also said they'd never build a compact frame and wrote some article explaining why. I think I've seen them talk about toe overlap on there before, too. A little toe overlap is often unavoidable, but too much is too much.
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rugpmf1
Nov 1, 2002 10:58 AM
The 6/4 ti article has disappeared. Must be a 6/4 frame in the works there.

I felt sorry for the woman posting here about huge toe overlap on her Seven and having to pay another $1200 for them to fix it. Imagine having to shell out that kind of cash on top of what it already cost.

I did a tour with a shorter guy (maybe 5'6'' or so) who had a Seven Axiom. He complained about toe overlap on the bike.

Frankly, I don't get what people see in these things. Evidently, they sell. I must have seen about 200 of them at the Seagull Century a few weeks ago. Should have tried to be unique and rode my Litespeed : )
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under ruggtx
Nov 1, 2002 11:23 AM
wait, she had to pay MORE MONEY??? For their screw up? That's wrong.
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rugpmf1
Nov 1, 2002 11:53 AM
They claimed it wasn't their fault. Do a search. It was on here a few days ago. I think she had something like 5-7 cm of toe overlap.

Silas_Greenback "Toe overlap, Seven,and Ms. Tolleson" 10/28/02 4:09pm
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under ruggtx
Nov 1, 2002 1:00 PM
I'd seen the thread. It's clear that Seven screwed up. I missed the part about coughing up another $1200. That's nuts. But then I wouldn't buy one of their frames in the first place.
Looks like "spin control" to mejoekm
Nov 1, 2002 6:57 AM
I think we all realize that a little toe overlap is normal but 7 cm is enough to make stopping at a red light a nerve wracking experience.
Agree...they don't want every Joe from RBR w/2cm overlapKristin
Nov 1, 2002 11:14 AM
to attempt to have their frame altered.
Eliminating toe overlap is not necessary, minimizing it is...TJeanloz
Nov 1, 2002 7:07 AM
Seven is correct that toe overlap is not a big deal. But it's not a good thing either. And too much of it can be a problem. A good bicycle design weighs all of the factors, of which toe overlap is one minor one, and creates the best balance of factors. It is rare that you would have a smallish bike with no toe overlap. However, this doesn't mean that it doesn't matter or isn't undesirable. If, as I believe was offered, Seven can fix a bike that has too much toe overlap, one must wonder why they didn't build it to minimize overlap in the first place.
I agree with them somewhatColnagoFE
Nov 1, 2002 7:12 AM
A small amount of toe overlap is no big deal. You;d only notice it at really slow speeds doing big turns anyway. That said if it can be avoided it's better, but if you have size 14 feet or ride a smaller frame you are probably gonna get some overlap. I have size 11s and have 2 bikes with a little overlap--and these are big bikes. Never had any problems with 'em though.
Here is the overlap on my singlespeed.Dave Hickey
Nov 1, 2002 8:28 AM
I've never had a problem with it. As you said, at really slow speeds with BIG turns, I might notice it.
where's your leg? nmMJ
Nov 1, 2002 8:30 AM
It weighs too much. He got rid of it. ;) nmColnagoFE
Nov 1, 2002 9:03 AM
time to do laundry...nmmr_spin
Nov 1, 2002 9:17 AM
time to do laundry...nmDave Hickey
Nov 1, 2002 9:26 AM
That's all my cycling clothes. And,yes, they are clean.
That's ALL your cycling clothes?Kristin
Nov 1, 2002 11:18 AM
We need to talk to your wife, you need a bigger jersey budget.
LOL, my wife doesn't want to talk about my cycling budget nmDave Hickey
Nov 1, 2002 11:37 AM
dave hickey -- the invisible man!tarwheel
Nov 1, 2002 9:23 AM
I'd be worried about cycling in traffic if I were you
I want those neon shoes!! nmPdxMark
Nov 1, 2002 10:09 AM
I have about the same amount of toe overlap. n/mfracisco
Nov 1, 2002 10:10 AM
Wait a minute. Bernard Hinault? Please explain. . .Sintesi
Nov 1, 2002 12:58 PM
his name on your down tube.
LOOK KG86 Hinault special edition. . nmDave Hickey
Nov 1, 2002 1:54 PM
It goes good with the Jalabert LOOK pedals!
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rugSherpa23
Nov 1, 2002 1:44 PM
To be fair, Seven has that exact bit about toe overlap in their catalog, which was turned into the printer over 4 months ago. So they didn't write it for JT.
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rugFredrico
Nov 1, 2002 3:01 PM
"If we tried to design a frame specifically to avoid toe overlap, we would have to use a different wheel size, alter the head angle, or compromise the overall fit of the bike by lengthening the top tube. In most cases, the tradeoff for selecting any one of these options results in a bike that no longer fits and is uncomfortable to ride. The bike's handling and ride characteristics would also be negatively affected, and, in extreme cases, could create a much more dangerous situation than having toe overlap."

What a crock.

There is nothing negative about a 72 degree head tube angle, which is really necessary to put a 700C front wheel far enough in front of the pedals to prevent overlap. The bike will handle just fine with a short stem and top tube, as long as the rider's weight is enough over the rear wheel to be balanced fore-aft. A small frame with 72 degree head angle and 74 or 75 degree seat tube angle (to put a short legged rider over the crank) will ride as well as a larger frame with 74 degree parallel angles, just different.

The Italians have been building frames this way for many years, smaller frames with relaxed head angles and steep seat tubes, larger frames with steeper head tubes and shallower seat tubes, not only to avoid toe overlap but mainly to balance the rider's weight well between the two wheels, while maintaining a short enough wheelbase so the bike is directionally responsive.

If the toes overlap the front wheel, there's very likely to be too much of the rider's weight over the front wheel, threfore not enough over the back wheel, which in terms of acceleration and control of the bike is essential.

Putting the front wheel so close-in that it overlaps the pedals, just to give it quick steering response, is misplaced priority. Its much more important for the rider to be well balanced between the two wheels on the bike in terms of general handling and response.
re: Seven sweeps toe-overlap thing under rugScottland
Nov 4, 2002 12:26 AM
Man never have I read a larger bunch of whiny nonsense-spewing crybabies than this toe-overlap bullsh%$. You people either have to attend some rudimentary reading courses, or just order some ready-pre-baked cannondales. I mean for Chrissakes, in the Seven Cycles pamphlet, it clearly states that toe overlap CAN occur with the parameters set by the orderer. AND THEY HAVE A BOX FOR YOU WHINERS TO CHECK THAT SAYS "TOE EVERLAP IS NOT ACCEPTABLE" !!! Damm learn how to read. If you are well-off enough to afford a seven, and you can't even read the damm instructions on ordering, then you idiots DESERVE to hit the pavement when you're executing a two-mph turn in a parking lot with yer badass sidis. Sheesh. Pathetic. READ!!!