|How long before Full Ultegra bikes are under $1000 new?||road-david|
Oct 18, 2002 8:27 AM
|I just got a new Motobecane le champion for $1095 - which I love. This bike has a frame that is nicer than what I see on must $2000 bikes. Anyway, I saw lots of great spec'ed bikes with Ultegra for close to $1000 when i did my research. fujis, douglass, KHS and lots of nice looking stuff with brand new Ultegra for about $700 less than I thought I was going to have to spend. Will bike prices keep dropping like computers have??|
|re: How long before Full Ultegra bikes are under $1000 new?||Akirasho|
Oct 18, 2002 8:56 AM
|Ultegra is only part of the equation... the other, being the frame, and this is where it can get tricky.
In an extreme, it would be possible to build a frame for $100, smack a wholesale Ultegra group on it, sell it at $1000 and make a $hitload of profit... which is why, it's important to buy as much frame as your budget allows.
There are many older, high quality frames that are worthy of any gruppo upgrade... but a pig iron frame will always be said.
OTOH, gruppos do see a bit of trickle down... today's Ultegra surpasses some older Dura Ace in virtually every category... but most often, Shimano would rather rename and reengineer a gruppo to keep it associated with a particular price point (indeed, there may be a sublte form of price fixing 'tween builders and Shimano in this respect).
The innovations in the computer industry are far more rapid than in cycling... I just bought a Pentium 4 1.4 Gz, with 80Mb hard drive for $600 USD... my first x286 cost $1500 USD without monitor, 256K memory and a 1Mg hard drive...
Remain In Light.
Be the bike.
|Its all about the frame..||Spunout|
Oct 18, 2002 9:01 AM
|As components are purchased by the frame manufacturer at cost, the only profits taken are on the frame.
So, cost advantages will be seen (agree with above) with the lowering of the cost of the frame. BTW, Motobecane has been around a long time, and probably has good economy in the operation.
|Did you mean to say 80Gb hard drive? ( nm )||Andy|
Oct 18, 2002 5:55 PM
|re: How long before Full Ultegra bikes are under $1000 new?||No_sprint|
Oct 18, 2002 9:06 AM
|Just to add to the above posters, should you see an Ultegra bike under $1000, it won't be because Shimano is lowering it's price on the groupset. As mentioned, profit will be taken out of the frame. One more thing for sure, the wheels will be crap.|
|More to a bike than Ultegra||Fez|
Oct 18, 2002 9:07 AM
|With the exception of some huge closeout deals, its important to look at the entire package.
Assuming a full Ultegra group is present, there are other key parts that make a bike. The wheelset, tires, seatpost, saddle, stem, bars, headset, and of course the frame and fork. Bike companies can cut huge corners on these parts and still peddle it as an Ultegra bike. And it is common to see some manufacturers substitute cheaper BB, hubs, and brakes on top of what I just mentioned.
Lots of $1,000 bikes are pretty good. I think they are a great value if you like them the way they are. If you end up upgrading to Ksyriums, a Thomson seatpost, full carbon Ouzo fork and the other goodies on it, then you may spend more than if you bought a higher end bike in the first place.
|re: How long before Full Ultegra bikes are under $1000 new?||Heron Todd|
Oct 18, 2002 9:23 AM
|An interesting comment that I heard at the Interbike show was that some bike companies are now in the business of just selling component groups. Since they can now produce frames so cheaply, they are basically selling you an Ultegra framekit and throwing in a free frame.
LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
|Is it really a deal? You get what you pay for..||Dave Hickey|
Oct 18, 2002 9:38 AM
|Let's take a $1000 "Full" Ultegra bike and add mid to high end components to bring the rest of the bike up to Ultegra quality specs.
Replace handlebars $70
Replace Stem- $70
Replace saddle $90
Replace seat post $50
Replace wheels $450
The price of the replacement compoents aren't real top end, they are just good quality components.
Your $1000 "Full" Ultegra bike has just become a $1730 bike.
|Is it really a deal? You get what you pay for..||teoteoteo|
Oct 18, 2002 12:51 PM
|Have to say that Todd is right in many cases. The Motobecane being a prime example. In fact many of you are correct when it comes to the Extra parts that corners are cut on....even the spokes on the cheap wheels are lousy. working in a shop that sells quality bikes you'll be amazed at how many are fooled by not looking at the BB spec or that the calipers are suspect. I've even seen Shimano crank arms that had cheap non-shimano rings on them.
If you can service your own stuff and don't care about warranty than buy the $100 frame...but just remember you can't polish a turd!
Fyi if your ambitious and patient you can put together a nice bike for cheap. I scored a New 02 Bianchi Reparto Corse SL Frame and Fork that came with lightly used DA cranks with new rings, New ultegra BB, new Bontrager racelite bar, stem, and seapost for $465
I added a lightly used DA group for 500 then resold the cranks and BB for 125....then added some new SSL Mavic Ksyrium's for 400...
End result about $1300 (with shipping)for my complete rig that is next to impossible to tell is used. The Bonti bar stem and post taint top flite but still solid for the time being. It took a lot of time chasing this stuff down but I bought a nicer bike for less than I can get it for by using my employee discount at the shop.....
|you can't get something for nothing||DaveG|
Oct 18, 2002 1:45 PM
|While some companies offer better deals than others, keeping the price low means saving money somewhere, whether that be the frame, headset, bars, etc. I think the "cheapest bike with 105/Ultegra/DA" marketing strategy is a good one, because many folks will buy a bike with several no-name parts thinking that "I'll can always upgrade later". I did not intend this to be a criticism, but an observation that you can't have it all. Sounds like you are happy with your choice and that's what matters|
|Study the distribution method - and related costs -- that's it||hills of gold|
Oct 18, 2002 4:07 PM
|I purchased a Motobecane le Champion Team about 3 months ago. Reason? No bike can touch it for the price. And I did my research ~ the quality and components are excellent and the Frame and Fork are the same as used on many bikes that cost twice as much. (by the way - it is FULL Dura-Ace including Hubs, Brakes, Crank, Der, BB, Shifters) --- so why is it so cheap? I talked to the dealer and to Motobecane and both told me that the company does not supply dealers with expensive distribution 'extras' - like sales reps, credit financing, co-op ads, free catalogs, posters, and perks like dinners and trips. Just high grade bikes at low cost. So there is much more to the price paid for a bike than the Frame, Parts, etc. I have only 4000 miles on this bike and could not be happier. My guess is that great deals from Fuji or Douglas are the same kinda savings.|
|Study the distribution method - and related costs -- that's it||teoteoteo|
Oct 18, 2002 7:13 PM
|Lots of ways to save cost.....
Take for instance the process used to weld the frames. Compare a nude frame to a more expensive (better) bike and you can see the difference. Things like larger heat-affected zones due to more rapid welding sequences and limited quality control...just like no catalogs these are ways they save money.
What did you say? Your Motobecane broke and it is questionable whether or not it is a warranty issue. Oh, well we could call the rep and see if he can throw some weight behind your case....oh wait there is no rep...
|re: How long before Full Ultegra bikes are under $1000 new?||Americano|
Oct 18, 2002 8:04 PM
|I think that quality really does suffer in other parts of the bike. As I recall the welds on the motobecane frame are rather lumpy looking, nothing like you would find on $2000 bike.
There's a guy over on the bicycling.com forums always going on about how great his monkey boy bike is. He paid $200 for the frame and thought that he knew something everyone else didn't. So he built it up w/full dura ace. And then was surprised at how much nicer the ride was when he rode a normal bike like a Bianchi or something that was built with dura ace.
You get what you pay for.
|You get what you pay for??? ARE YOU KIDDING?||mrlux us1|
Oct 19, 2002 4:28 AM
|All you guys saying you get what you pay for - welcome to the Land of OZ! Here in America you get the best deal you can find! Why do you think companies hire purchadsing agents? Do you really think it is not possible to get a better deal by shopping?
My deal? I got a Fuji Team for $1095 and did not pay sales tax or shipping. I shopped and saved over $700
Now you can start slamming my Fuji to justify the price you paid. But I know I have a quality bike, with full Ultegra, with Ritchey wheels and all quality components. And the Frame is fantastic.
If you want to support your local bike shop and overpay - fine -- but posting that customers can not get a better deal by shopping flies in the face of reality. (by the way _ I also purchased my computer and digital camera online ~ think I got a deal? You bet I did)
|You get what you pay for??? ARE YOU KIDDING?||teoteoteo|
Oct 19, 2002 10:09 AM
|I will say with 100% confidence that Fuji didn't just wake up one morning and say "Hmmm, I think I'll make less money on the bikes I sell...less than all the other bike companies".
The reality is they chose to compete for a segment of consumers that exist. The consumer that will buy from a smaller less established shop that can't land a bigger name. Those smaller shops sometimes suck and sometimes make something of themselves. That is a whole other rant. The other market is the internet. Fuji had nothing to lose by turning the bikes loose online as they weren't a premium brand with legions of loyal happy IBD's that would revolt. They were merely surviving...no problem with that.
As for digi cams and computer that is a whole other matter...apples to oranges comparison. If you think your Fuji rides great than that is all that matters.