|Looking for a clincher that performs like tubalur||cycleforever|
Oct 16, 2002 1:38 PM
|Any clinchers on the market that perform like or out perform a tubalur.|
|re: Looking for a clincher that performs like tubalur||Alexx|
Oct 16, 2002 3:33 PM
|Depends on who you talk to||Kerry|
Oct 16, 2002 4:44 PM
|Some would claim that no clincher rides like a tubular - they're blown away by the improvement over clinchers. Others would say they can't tell the difference. Princess and the Pea? Hard to say. IMO you will do just fine on the top tires from Conti, Michelin, Vredestein, Vittoria, and maybe a few others. Unless of course you believe those who say there is no comparison.|
|Depends on who you talk to||tremblay|
Oct 16, 2002 4:46 PM
|I've heard good things about the Michelin Axial Pros. I can't vouch for that, though.
I think the rule here is that the more you pay the better the performance. Any top of the line clincher will give decent performance. After that, it's all about your own opinion on if it is comparable to a tubular or not...
|re: Looking for a clincher that performs like tubalur||idk|
Oct 16, 2002 6:19 PM
|Try the Tufo Tubular Clincher. Let me explain. |
I had been out of riding for the past 15 years. I decided that the pounding of running was taking too much of a
physical toll. So I did my research, visited some lbs's, and lo and behold purchased a new bike.
In the old days, practically no one used clinchers, we all used tubulars. There really was no comparison.
My new bike came equipped with Michelin Pro race Clinchers. While these were eon's better than clinchers of
yore, they did not seem to feel like I remembered tubulars felt.
But I was just starting to ride again and EVERYTHING HURT, so getting reacclimated took some time, and I
had many more things to worry about.
After about the 500 mile mark, ( 5 weeks) things started settling down, and it continued to bother me that the
tire feel just was not as good as the old days.
So after doing a little more research, I came across Tufo Tires, with their Tubular Clinchers, and decided to
give them a try.
Well the old tire feel is back. These things feel great. I purchased their Elite Road Tubular Clincher. At 315
grams it might seem heavy, but if you were to take the Pro Racers, tubes, and rim tape, one would end up
pretty close in weight, and because of their unique system of being able to fix flats on the spot, without tire
removal, nor carrying a spare tube, well that was the clincher.
Lastly, while the Tufo Elite Road Tires are expensive, they are supposed to last almost twice as long as
|Try upping the size||Starliner|
Oct 16, 2002 6:33 PM
|Maybe go with a 25 instead of a 23 section to increase your cushion, to approximate one of the benefits that tubulars have vis-a-vis clinchers.
Vittoria Couriers 25s are priced half off at Performance right now. They're green though.
|re: Looking for a clincher that performs like tubalur||desmo|
Oct 16, 2002 6:38 PM
|When I hear "the feel" of tubulars I can't help thinking about the audio guys who swear they hear the differnece in their systems by putting some four hundred dollar cone shaped pieces of aluminum under their CD player. I rode on sew-ups from '79 to '84, gave up on biking and then started again two years ago. I was suprised that "everyone" now rode clinchers, but I was suprised that they now made frames out of aluminum. So what the heck I'll go with the flow (not aluminum though). Anyway, in my humble and honest opinion Axiel Pros ride like tubulars (at least the ones from 17 years ago. The convienance of a good clincher can't be beat if you're putting in a lot of miles. I'd never go back, except for the a restoration of a 70's classic that I was only going to ride occasionally.|
Oct 16, 2002 6:41 PM
|Depends on what you mean by "perform". If you mean "feel," then lots of clinchers are about the same. The closest I'd say to good tubulars are Vittoria Open Corsa CX, Veloflex, Continental Supersonic. As someone mentioned, larger tires definitely rider nicer, and the size difference is much more significant than the difference between clincher and tubular.
For the rough roads in the last 100 miles of the 508 this year I had 28 mm Continental 2000's on my Ksyriums, and they felt extraordinarily better than the narrow 23 mm tubulars I was riding up to that point. Makes a huge difference on rough roads.
|re: Looking for a clincher that performs like tubalur||Spunout|
Oct 17, 2002 4:04 AM
|Isn't it all about the size: WIDTH?
When I raced in the '80s, the tubulars were around 25mm wide,and wider. Wider than race specific clinchers are now. That was the magical tubular feel.
Now, people race on their 19, 22, 23 mm clinchers at 145 psi and are missing the 'feel'. No $hit!!
Oct 17, 2002 9:16 AM
|The 'ride' of a road bicycle tyre, with a slick or patterned tread of average thickness, is influenced by only two things: air volume, and air pressure. Casing design and manufacture is significant only in terms of durability, for ordinary use. Tread pattern is for brand identification, as is tread colour.
The only practical difference between tubular and clincher tyres is that tubs can usually tolerate higher pressure. This is arbitrary as nobody but track racers and time-triallists likes to inflate their tyres much above 100 psi, for reasons of comfort.
Even in those exreme cases, the advantage in rolling resistance that tubs should have is offset about equally by the friction generated as they squirm in their glue. This can be seen as a silvery black residue in old tub/ rim glued surfaces. "Track" glue which sets hard prevents this occuring, but is entirely impractical for road use. Without it, you must tolerate high inflation pressures with tubs to equal the RR of clinchers of the same size.
Choose ordinary clincher tyres with slick rubber treads, rubber which is black because it has carbon in it, not because it has been dyed. Paradoxically, though all cheap tyres use carbon-blacked rubber, expensive ones often forgo it (for the ability to be dyed different colours), a practice which results in disastrous wear and poor grip.
I prefer Avocet tyres which have always been made properly. The "fasgrip" (abysmal name) is available in all the usual sizes.
|Well, you've got one point completely wrong||Kerry|
Oct 17, 2002 4:04 PM
|Tire construction, particularly the casing, has a significant influence on ride. Anyone who has ridden a "racing" tire and then something like a Specialized Armadillo knows this first hand. While tire size and pressure are certainly the dominant factors, the behavior of the casing is noticeable, full stop.
However, among lightweight racing tires (clincher or tubular), I believe your point is well made. There is nothing magical about the tubular construction to suggest that the casing (at the tread) can "see" the rim and "know" whether it is attached by glue or by clamping forces. Tubulars do generally have higher rolling resistance (all else constant) due to the squirming you note.
|Well, you've got one point completely wrong||Jofa|
Oct 17, 2002 4:50 PM
|Tyres such as armadillos move the goalposts by including an extra component to the construction, a belt or somesuch which purports to reduce the occurence of punctures. I can't remember how Specialised do it but I've seen some awfully thick rubbery stuff come out of tyres like this before.
My point is to make clear that the tyre casing itself doesn't figure in RR calculations. It is the combined thickness of tread and tube which matters, and this dimension is hardly variable between different makes of narrow road tyres. If there is no difference in RR then there is no difference in 'ride', except, perhaps, as you said, for the princess atop her pea. Amongst tyres of varying width and tread thickness, and with 'puncture' belts thrown in, of course there will be corresponding differences; but none of them will be down to thread count, or any of those hoary old topics that tubular aficionados used to get all romantic about.
|re: Looking for a clincher that performs like tubalur||Lactate Junkie|
Oct 17, 2002 5:53 PM
|Tufo's come as close as anything can, but you still have a weight penalty for a clincher rim over a tubular rim. When you are making comparisons, you have to make sure you are going apples to apples. By this I mean that a very high quality clincher will usually ride better than a cheap low end sewup. If you are mostly riding in a straight line, the highend clinchers roll as smoothly and with as little resistance as a top sew-up.
IMHO--where sew-ups really have an advantage over clinchers is in cornering. Because they essentially sit on top of the rim rather than being locked into the rim like a clincher, they are more compliant to changes in the road surface, think radial tires vs. the old bias ply tires on your car, the concept is similar. Top quality sew-ups also tend to have higher thread counts in their casing (not always) than highend clinchers and this also makes them more compliant. The whole issue of sew-ups holding more pressure than clinchers is pretty much a moot point, both will hold between 110-130psi, which is all you should ever use on the road anyway, although again because of their design, sew-ups tend to be more compliant at any given pressure. Keep in mind that much of this is generalizations and varies greatly by tire. Personally, I train on clinchers, race unimportant races on clinchers, and race important races on sew-ups. Ultimately, you can win on anything.