Sep 18, 2002 10:27 AM
|Does anyone know who is making the Douglas frames that Colorado Cyclist sells? Heard a rumor it might be Dean?|
|I don't believe that they use one vendor/manu. I bought a||bill|
Sep 18, 2002 10:33 AM
|Stealth that they told me was made in Asia. I think some of their other bikes are manu'd elsewhere.
It's a pretty nice bike, by the way. Very stiff, but still with decent ride quality. I would say that it compares very favorably with my old 1998 Litespeed Natchez in terms of handling, power transfer, and ride quality.
|re: Douglas frames||pmf1|
Sep 18, 2002 10:50 AM
|I know TST (http://www.titaniumsports.com/) makes the ti ones. Who knows where the others come from. Its a Colorado Cyclist house brand. They buy the frames then put the Douglas stickers on them.
The ti ones always struck me as a pretty good deal.
|Dean doesn't build their own ti frames, they send them out.||PaulMC|
Sep 18, 2002 12:56 PM
|Dean does build their own, they used to buy from TST, nm||Juanmoretime|
Sep 18, 2002 1:48 PM
|Nope. Call Dean, ask if they are built completely in house.||PaulMC|
Sep 18, 2002 3:04 PM
|They're not. They send them out. They do some work on them, but they send the ti bikes to other companies to get welded and stuff. Same with their other bikes.|
|When did you ask?||sn69|
Sep 18, 2002 4:25 PM
|I bought a Culebra from them in January of this year, and they told me that all of their bikes were now built in house. They stopped using TST over a year ago for their ti bikes. ...And since all they build are ti road bikes now, they're doing the work in house. ...Per John in January. Also, you can correspond with TST and they'll be happy to give you a current list of who they're building for. I did that too.
|Yup, Dean does their Ti work in house....||Gregory Taylor|
Sep 19, 2002 4:58 AM
|Talk with John, Dusty, or Shaun at Dean. They don't do their own paint or powdercoating, but they do cut, weld, and glue (carbon seat stays) their own frames.
Oh, I also found out what happened to Dean's steel bikes. They still build by Dean but are now sold under the Ionic brand. Dean wants to just to be known for their Ti stuff now.
|Ah-ha! I was wondering about the steel issue||sn69|
Sep 19, 2002 5:13 AM
|for obvious reasons. I'll have to take a look at Ionic. Has your new bike arrived yet, Greg?
OBTW, I've finally joined the digital age and I have a d-camera. I'll post a pic of my Culebra soon.
|It's been welded up, and was shipped off to Spectrum...||Gregory Taylor|
Sep 19, 2002 6:02 AM
|...on Monday. Shaun, the Dean Dude that I spoke with, says that I might have it next week. I'm not holding my breath.
Yes, let's see the Culebra!
|You mean that you have no intention of showing off your new||bill|
Sep 19, 2002 6:12 AM
|ride at Seagull? The biggest bike party/show on the East Coast?
|It might not be together by then.||Gregory Taylor|
Sep 19, 2002 6:21 AM
|You do see some cool bikes at Seagull, don't you?|
|And why not?!!!!! No excuses; just do it. nm||bill|
Sep 19, 2002 6:23 AM
|Just as soon||sn69|
Sep 19, 2002 6:23 AM
|as I get back from a business trip. I want to cut off the excess steerer tube now that I've adjusted my stem height (boy, will our stem nazis love my set up...2.5 cm of spacers with a slightly rising stem). Once I do that, I'll snap the photo and post it.
I just scanned through Ionic's bikes. Their steel road offering in UF is similar but not quite the same as the Culebra. From the photo, the seat and chain stays look strait as opposed to Dean's curved stays. My guess is that Dean sold Ionic the remainder of their steel pipes, although I thought I heard from them (can't quite remember) that Columbus delivered the stays pre-bent.
I'll be curious to learn more about that uber-light compact frame Dean has. Specifically, I wonder if they're going to offer custom butting like Seven, Serotta or Spectrum, or if they are going to use standard butting profiles from Reynolds and Ancotech. For $3K, one has the right to expect a helluva lot in a frame.
Looking forward to seeing your bike,
|That is weird||PaulMC|
Sep 19, 2002 9:10 AM
|I met a guy on a ride this summer in Ft. Collins who said he welds the bikes for Dean but that he was a subcontractor and didn't work for them. He builds his own bikes and welds the Deans at his shop too. I don't think he was lying he would have nothing to gain but I can see Dean not wanting people to know they don't build the bikes themselves since maybe it would take away from their credibility as bike builders not that that is what they are doing. I had heard the same thing about the steel bikes. Dean is local to me so there is always lots of talk. I'd like to know for sure.|
Sep 19, 2002 10:04 AM
|All I know (and this is by telephone) is that my man Dusty (who is a Dean employee) usually cuts the tubing on Ti bikes, and that John does some of the welding. They said that my bike (El Diente CTI) was built in house. I asked. I also know that my old Culebra was built in house because I had an interesting conversation with John about Dean's learning curve welding steel.
You still could be right about some of the work being subcontracted out. TST used to do some of Dean's Ti work, but not any more.
Actually, there is a fine tradition of bike companies farming out production to other shops. Colnago, Pinarello, and other very esteemed brands have all contracted out to smaller shops for frames (especially custom race frames).
|for most of the big italian makers||rufus|
Sep 19, 2002 2:23 PM
|the chance that some other, smaller shop built the bike for them is probably pretty good. they build what they can, and farm out the rest to one or more of the hundreds of small italian framebuilders.|
|That is weird||sn69|
Sep 19, 2002 11:07 AM
|I agree with Greg; it's likely that they are subing some of their work, perhaps to offset a lack of high-quantity production capabilities. If I remember right, some years ago (95 or 96) Dean also offered a carbon bike briefly. My guess is that is was a Martek production. This is a common business practice, and ironically enough, Dan Empfield is currently featuring a series on this via his web site. Interesting reading.
When I ordered my Culebra, it was just prior to X-mas. Dean was advertising the bike as being a combo of Reynolds and Columbus. When I got it several months later (a paint problem held it up), it turned out to be all Columbus. I'm not nor have I ever complained. I'm delighted with the bike. It just illustrates the point that there are often small variences in the smaller builders who aren't harnessing the sheer brute force of the Taiwanese production machine. Likewise, not every small builder can produce one-of works of art like Sachs, Eisenstraut, Kellogg, etc....
In any case, the Dean line represents a great bike at a resonably, highly competitive price. Please pass my kudo's along to that guy if you see him again.