|Just a little drugged||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Sep 4, 2002 9:58 PM
|The news that Tammy Thomas was drugged is big news. But %^&%$ look at her last year. She looks like a man and was caught before. Doping in our sport is frustrating because she's gotten away with it... I wish there were mandatory tests at certain times to get rid of this crap in our sport. Its more frustrating for me since this is my discipline. If I'm not mistaken its possible to cycle your use of anabolic steroids or other illegal drugs so you would never test positive unless your timing was really poor.
|Leapin lizards!||I Love Shimano|
Sep 4, 2002 10:25 PM
|Is that her on the left??!?!?!|
|Yup... but don't you mean him? (nm)||PODIUMBOUNDdotCA|
Sep 4, 2002 10:28 PM
|Nick....||I Love Shimano|
Sep 4, 2002 10:40 PM
|think you can beat Tammy T one on one in the kilo?
|isn't that Ms. Man from the film Scary Movie?||thatsmybush|
Sep 5, 2002 9:18 AM
|Looks like Dana Carvey - in one of his costumes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!||Old_school_nik|
Sep 5, 2002 9:48 AM
|What's crazy about the whole story...||Wayne|
Sep 5, 2002 3:49 AM
|as I understand it, is that she was caught using an anabolic steroid that isn't even manufactured by a drug company. Apparently somebody is making it underground and selling it to athletes. Obviously this is a major coup for dopers because drug tests are typically designed to pick up specific metabolites of illegal substances. Hard to design a test for a drug that you don't know exits! Clearly word got out to the testing authorities though, and a test was designed and caught T. Thomas amongst others!|
Sep 5, 2002 6:27 AM
|Geez, if there is anything dumber than taking 'roids, it's gotta be taking underground, homemeade 'roids. Who knows what's in that syringe or what it will do to your body?|
|Is that a "soul patch" she's sportin' ?||filtersweep|
Sep 5, 2002 4:10 AM
Sep 5, 2002 4:13 AM
|Well, she/he did get a lifetime ban, which surprises me and is good news. Looks like they're finally cracking down.|
|That's just disgusting. nm||MXL02|
Sep 5, 2002 4:24 AM
|Priscilla queen of the desert....nm||african|
Sep 5, 2002 5:01 AM
|Oh, shut up and eat your hormones! ;-) - nm||grzy|
Sep 5, 2002 9:24 AM
|That is fascinating. Are there any other photos of her?||Sintesi|
Sep 5, 2002 5:07 AM
|It's so freaky. I'm surprized she didn't passed the sex test.|
Sep 5, 2002 5:32 AM
|Mental note for future: Do not post drunk.|
|At 6 in the morning??||scottfree|
Sep 5, 2002 5:43 AM
|It's 5 o'clock somewhere... nm||noveread|
Sep 5, 2002 5:48 AM
|No. Absolutely not. It's almost 10am where I live. sheesh! nm||Sintesi|
Sep 5, 2002 5:49 AM
Sep 5, 2002 6:28 AM
|Which one is she? They all look like guys to me.|
|This is nothing. What about Michelle Dumaresq?||mr_spin|
Sep 5, 2002 6:34 AM
|She is the Canadian woman had a sex-change operation six years ago and now races downhill (MTB) as a woman. Seems like a huge unfair advantage to me, because she doesn't just look like a man, she IS a man!|
|Michelle is not a man he/she/it is an xx "male" hermaphrodite||lonefrontranger|
Sep 5, 2002 7:19 AM
|There's a chromosome test that no true "male" would pass, sex change operation or no. Michelle goes under the radar because he/she/it is a "genderless" hermaphrodite.
Otherwise he/she/it would not be eligible for female competition, end of story.
How do I know this? Because I raced against he/she/it at Tour de Toona in the women's 4 race in 1998, and his/her/whatever's entry was protested at the time...
|Isn't the essential question...||Wayne|
Sep 5, 2002 7:26 AM
|though whether or not she was producing testosterone like a male? I thought hermaphrodites were typically xy and the male determining part of the y chromosome was disfunctional in some respect leading to female phenotype? Maybe not? Either way, I would think if the genetic "she" looked and had "he" features than that would be determined by "her" masculinizing production and response to testosterone, no? She must have looked like a he, right? or how would anybody have known to complain?|
Sep 5, 2002 8:39 AM
|the xx "male" which has been determined to have a small piece of y chromosome, and the xy "female", of which the y is somehow damaged / broken.
xx "male" exhibits male external physiology but often female character traits.
xy "female" exhibits female external physiology but often male character traits.
Both are sterile. In Michael/Michelle's case, he/she had had his/her gender "determined" by parents at a young age, then after maturity decided to undergo a sex change because he/she had always "felt" female.
No, african, actually none of us "beat" Michelle. She/he won two stages and the overall GC handily.
The protest actually wasn't framed as a protest on the gender issue, it was based on the fact that Michael / Michelle had raced (successfully) as a Cat 4 male, and therefore it was argued that he/she should technically race as Cat 3 female (when taken into account that women can drop a cat to race against men...).
|I forgot about crossover...||Wayne|
Sep 5, 2002 8:51 AM
|I guess that's how an xx gets phenotypically male characteristics. Either way, if she's hormonally a male that would argue against allowing her to race as a female wouldn't you think?|
|according to the promoter it didn't matter||lonefrontranger|
Sep 5, 2002 9:13 AM
|Since in that case, existence of a y chromosome could not be proven through the usual blood test methods, they couldn't legally say that Michelle was ineligible to enter a women's race.
And, since Michelle had been undergoing hormone treatments for the sex change for at least 18 months prior to 'Toona, I think they didn't have a leg to stand on that way either. And the female hormones given him/her/it aren't (or weren't at the time) illegal via a dope test. I don't know all the particulars, but the end result was that legally the promoter couldn't deny entry.
Sep 5, 2002 9:00 AM
|So bottom line is that Michelle is really good. Ok thats all cool in my book. I just wanted to know how good the person is, and fair play to her (as I take it she prefers to be a she).|
|Did you beat it?? nm||african|
Sep 5, 2002 7:41 AM
|What is wrong with you?||Sintesi|
Sep 5, 2002 8:00 AM
|"it?" Are you calling this human being, with a condition I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, an "it?" I guess it's not enough the person has to suffer from the stigma of indeterminate sex; I guess you feel further humiliation is warranted.
I don't know who you are but that "joke" of yours is embarrasingly callous and lame.
|That is fascinating||african|
Sep 5, 2002 8:57 AM
|Well further up in the post other say "it". You call it fascinating.
Not a joke, just want to know who won, does he/she/IT win these races or is it a close race and fair. Or maybe there should be a Male race, female race and an IT race???
|That is fascinating||Sintesi|
Sep 5, 2002 9:24 AM
|Not the post I replied to. First I've seen anyone referred to as "it" is in your post. Your joke is insipid.|
|dude don't be so offensensitive unless you know the whole story||lonefrontranger|
Sep 5, 2002 9:27 AM
|Michelle him/her/itself uses "it" as a personal pronoun, humorously too, might I add. Seems to be very comfortable in "her" own skin. Michelle had us all in stitches at the start line with a monologue on the inefficiencies of the English language and lack of gender neutral modifiers, etc...|
|I had a friend named Sherry/Shaun (Depending on the time of day).||Kristin|
Sep 5, 2002 10:11 AM
|She was the funniest person I ever met. I've had several transexual friends who could have me laughing in a snap. Wonder why that is? As with Michelle, they are all very comfortable with their identities and didn't take themselves or others very seriously. I think that is a side effect of having practically no inhibitions.|
|didn't we all have this discussion?||Sintesi|
Sep 5, 2002 10:12 AM
|Like some lesbians "own" the word "dyke." or some blacks cozy up to "nigger." I have a circle of friends where we rank on stereotypes and racial/ethnic epithets all the time, but we all know each other well enough to know what's worth taking serious or not. I don't mind being a "biscuit headed cracker" if its my friend Jose saying it. Whatever people choose to accept personally doesn't make it all right for everyone else to start using it. Calling someone an "it" is diminishing. I think it's offensive and retarded. Good on the hermaphrodite cyclist Michelle for being big enough to not be offended but don't tell me it's now okay to refer to people with this condition as "it." Would you feel comfortable refering to anyone in this condition casually as an "it" or would you first be worried that it might cause said person real pain?
Ahem, I get your point and you know I'm not the most PC person in the world but that stupid uncharitable joke irritated me.
|But its ok for you to throw the word "retarded" around....||RhodyRider|
Sep 5, 2002 12:52 PM
|...so cavalierly?!? Physician, heal thyself.
In other words, lighten up, Francis.
|correct, for once||weiwentg|
Sep 5, 2002 4:49 PM
|african, I'm going to have to agree with sintesi on this; that wasn't particularly nice, although I'm sure you absolutely didn't intend it as such.
LFR, I'm not pointing fingers at you or anything. but if Michelle 'felt' that she was a woman, she was likely telling the truth. most likely she didn't fit in from a very early age. it's not easy for us to understand. but we had one lesbian woman, one transsexual woman, and one bisexual man come to our psychology class, so I think have some very limited insight into this. eventually, most homosexuals or future transsexuals realize their actual nature. there is such a stigma against not definitely being of one sex or the other. in my view, this is unnecessary, at best.
you may wish to keep an open mind and check this site: http://www.isna.org/ it's the Intersex Society of North America. some articles make for fascinating reading.
|Very well written, Sintesi ... thanks.||jtolleson|
Sep 6, 2002 11:29 AM
|and I'm not a particuarly PC person either.|
|"offensensitive" what a great word! (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Sep 5, 2002 11:39 AM
|That's not your sister, That's a MAN baby! (NM)||Manicmtbr|
Sep 5, 2002 5:59 PM