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average double century speeds?(20 posts)

average double century speeds?JS Haiku Shop
Sep 3, 2002 7:02 AM
just wondering--what are you high-mileage guys averaging on doubles? what about your first or first few?

i'm talking about ride speed--average mph "on bike", according to the computer.

TIA!

J
re: average double century speeds?netso
Sep 3, 2002 7:10 AM
13.9 mph
highly dependent on terrainDougSloan
Sep 3, 2002 7:15 AM
I've done over 20 mph (all my speeds include any stopping -- miles divided by total time) solo on flat ground, right at 20 for an organized double with lots of paceline (right at 10 hours total), down to about 15 mph for very hilly doubles like the Terrible Two (16,000 feet climbing just under 13 hours). Probably add about 1 mph for "on bike" average speeds.

Note that training for doubles is a bit different than for road racing. You aim more for high average output, rather than high peak output. Also, food utilization becomes more important than oxygen utilization, in my experience. Different limiting factors.

Did you do one this last weekend?

Doug
firstDougSloan
Sep 3, 2002 7:25 AM
My first was fairly flat, but with tons of wind in the Mohave desert, the Route 66 Double. Hard to recall, but I think it was somewhere between 12 and 13 hours total.

Doug
first DCoutofthesaddle
Sep 3, 2002 9:21 AM
I also did my first double at Route 66 ('01). There was a incessant headwind blowing all day!! Total for my first was between 13 and 14 ride time just over 12 -- too much time off the bike. In the doubles since then, I've been closer to 12 total with ride time at about 11.5. Except for the Terrible Two - add an hour and a half and lots more suffering.
yepJS Haiku Shop
Sep 3, 2002 7:43 AM
209 miles in 13:09 on the bike, average 15.9. total time mph average including stops 13.9 mph (just under 15 hours). terrain on the first 100 was rolling, second 100 was flat to gently rolling. there were some equipment (mine) and organizational (the host club) difficulties.

the pack finished at around 20 mph.

btw, do(u)g: thanks for the advice, especially re: mr. flitie saddle cover. much much much much much (shall i go on?) appreciated. my ass monday only felt like it covered 30 miles saturday.
Sounds pretty darn good to me. You 'da man!MB1
Sep 3, 2002 7:49 AM
Where the pix?
Sounds pretty darn good to me. You 'da man!JS Haiku Shop
Sep 3, 2002 7:54 AM
imagine a black bear, eyes closed, in a soot storm. that's the pix for the first 4.5 hours. otherwise, sorry. i carried enough food for four thousand miles, but no camera.
4,000 miles? That your next ride? You 'da man!MB1
Sep 3, 2002 8:51 AM
So tell us a bit about the ride, the course, the support, the weather and so on.

BTW no more about your rear.
LOL--about the rideJS Haiku Shop
Sep 3, 2002 9:42 AM
no more about my rear? LOL

course was pastoral, beautiful, picture-perfect mostly-corn-farmland.

I lost the pack at mile 20 due to an equipment failure--bracket on a light broke. 20.1 mph for the first 20 miles...stupid (on my part). support was rolling SAGs to mile 100, every 20 miles. i saw SAGs at 20, 40, 60, nothing at 80, and 100 was a water fountain at the start (!). SAG at 120 was a garden hose and some glazed donuts. from 120 to 200, the SAGs were abandoned. i was ahead of at least 3 other 200-mile riders, even with the 9+ mile detour. they DNF'd (one of them was a "team" rider, with a PSV, and partner in the van).

the organizers stated a required finish time of 4:30 PM. we finished at 4:29 PM, with +9 miles since some a-hole repainted the route at mile 105, sending some of us off course. multiple voice messages to the emergency ride number (to verify the course) were never answered. there was no check-in or tracking system for the double guys, just word of mouth from rider to organizer. it's unfortunate.

from 20 to 105 i rode with one of the top 15 in the 2001 UMCA mileage competition; he'd done several series of brevets regionally, numerous 200 milers, PBP, and a PAC tour across the northern route (trans-america ride) in the last 4 years. nice guy. i believe he dnf'd, too, due to the organizational issues.

saw some stuff that i'd never have seen otherwise, or that would have eluded me for years. i'll include haiku later. riding is great. i love to ride. problems--support, equipment, organizational, personal--regardless. i'd sum it all up with that one statement, and be done. i love to ride.

weather was accommodating 'til the last few miles, then it was a horrible electrical/strong wind/sideways rain storm that chased and caught us several times. i suffered and crawled from 188 to 202, then 202 to 209 hauled ass running from the storm. didn't know i had it in me. :)
Congrats! You da man!look271
Sep 3, 2002 8:02 AM
I'm jealous. Didn't know you were doing one. Quite the accomplishment. Maybe when I don't have a wife and kids I'll be able to train enough to do one :-)
Didn't you do a century Sunday?MB1
Sep 3, 2002 8:55 AM
Were they giving out Thin Mints on Girl Scout Road?
Wanted to. Didn't.look271
Sep 3, 2002 9:23 AM
Would have had to a whole lot of manuevering to do it; wife worked weekend & Labor day, could've sent the kids to grandma & grandpa's but just was too much running around. I've done a bunch of centuries but never a double. I did get out early labor day for 33 easy miles, then took the kids to a nearby state game land where there is a nice fire road to ride on (plus some decent single-track, but at 8 and 10 yrs old, they aren't ready for that!) so we did about 10 miles. Not sorry I did'nt do the century-some things are more important =)
coolDougSloan
Sep 3, 2002 8:06 AM
Tell us all about it. It's good to hear about first ones.

My key questions:

1. Were you every out of breath?
2. Did you bonk, or come close?
3. How much fluid did you consume?
4. How much time spent in pacelines compared to solo?
5. Did you feel you were resting or pressing hard when in the pacelines?
6. What food and how much did you consume?
7. Did you want to quit, and if so, when and how did you get through it?
8. What were the surprises, if any?
9. What were your favorite and least favorite parts of the ride?
10. Are you hooked?

Yes, the saddle cover is good. You really have no idea until you try one.

Doug
q&a (the answers)JS Haiku Shop
Sep 3, 2002 10:44 AM
1. Were you every out of breath?

during the first 20 (staying in the pack) and on a few hills in the next 40 (between 20 and 60). purely my error. i'm learning--and that was lesson #1.

2. Did you bonk, or come close?

never. my definition of bonk = ready to lay on roadside and beg for sugar, shaking, devoid of any inkling of energy. however, between 180 and 209, i had ok legs, fairly level head (that's pretty subjective), but had no energy to go much over 13-15 mph.

3. How much fluid did you consume?

I have no idea. carried a 72-ounce camelbak and the zefal magnum for the first 100 (battery in other cage), then swapped magnum and battery for two 24-ounce polar bottles. didn't keep track. emptied one full M&Ms tube of gatorade powder, plus one and a half ziploc snack baggies of powder. had a de-fizzed 20-ounce coke on ice in my car waiting at 100 miles (good decision). nursed it from 100 to 130. refilled camelbak and bottles numerous times. it was not an excessively hot day, thankfully.

4. How much time spent in pacelines compared to solo?

first 20 miles in a pack. mile 20-30 drafting. 30-60 or longer on the front, with 3 or more in tow. the remainder of the ride was mostly non-drafting--riding shoulder to shoulder or one up the road and one a few yards back. i never caught the century folks, but did catch the tail-end of the metric riders (and left them, in short order)

5. Did you feel you were resting or pressing hard when in the pacelines?

riding about midline to stay on at 20 mph for 20 miles, in the dark. couldn't have done that for more than 50 miles. i regret starting that fast, even if in a pack. won't happen again. my fitness level/form is not up to that.

6. What food and how much did you consume?

what? clif bars, luna bars, clif gels, double-caf tangerine power gels, and bananas at the limited SAGs. and a can of v8 juice at 110 miles (brought from my car). how much? who knows. less than 10 clif bars, less than 5 luna bars, less than 3 clif gels, and less than 4 power gels.

7. Did you want to quit, and if so, when and how did you get through it?

there was a wall at 100 and a wall between 180 and 190. i wanted seriously to quit somewhere around 165, then again at 188. i toyed with quitting for about four seconds at the 100 mile mark. my butt was sore (sorry mb1) and i felt tired at 100, but that all went away between 130 and the end.

8. What were the surprises, if any?

figured i'd have cramping problems, but didn't. was surprised at how well we continued despite the lack of support. aside from the jackass changing road markings, i was pleasantly surprised at the friendly and gracious country folk along the route.

9. What were your favorite and least favorite parts of the ride?

favorite: riding through the dark to dawn change, and the unusual thigns i saw (haiku to follow). least: besides support and equipment problems, the feeling of being out of energy (mental and physical) in the last 20 miles.

10. Are you hooked?

abso-f*cking-lootely!
Way to godzrider
Sep 3, 2002 9:12 AM
Congratulations
on your double century
did you enjoy it?

I'm interested in many of Doug's questions, especially about the mental aspects of the ride. I find these events, done on moderate terrain in temperate weather, to be far more challenging mentally than physically.
that seems to be about rightJS Haiku Shop
Sep 3, 2002 10:46 AM
it was only 100% physical. the rest was all mental. :)
sounds like you did a real good job of energy management.dzrider
Sep 3, 2002 11:43 AM
If you never bonked and were able to breath easily most of the way, you were doing a lot of things right. The fast start doesn't sound all that fast riding in a pace line. Some of the old bucks I met doing a 600k suggested going at a little faster pace in the early going while it was cool and dark. It worked pretty well for me on the first day, but the second day it wasn't possible.
sounds good to me, tooDougSloan
Sep 3, 2002 11:49 AM
Looks pretty good. It seems that the main focus might be less down time, but some of that is out of your control.

Don't get complacent, either. Just because you finished in fine shape, don't think you can get away with eating or drinking less next time; I've made that mistake and have been painfully reminded that I need to eat every time, no matter how good of shape I'm in.

Doug
On bike speed barely matters. Total time is the deal.MB1
Sep 3, 2002 7:29 AM
The reason off bike time counts is that it allows thinking and planning to be a big part of the deal. On the other hand you could sprint for 10 miles 20 times with a lot of rest in between and have a really fast time (yeah right, I would like to see someone try it).

You will likely have a much faster overall time if you slow down a little bit and stop a lot less. Try to finish strong, lots of people lose lots of time in the second hundred going too fast the during the warmup century.

In my callous youth I drafted a motorcycle for the 200 miles and beat 10 hours. On bike time was perhaps 1.5 hours less. I was hurting for days after that.

Now days I just try to finish before dark.