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Holland vs. Moots vs. Seven(11 posts)

Holland vs. Moots vs. Sevenkingmoose
Aug 20, 2002 9:51 PM
I have finally narrowed it down to these 3 and wanted to get opinions from owners of any of these. The plus with Holland is that he will do the fitting. Any information or opinions on these 3 is appreciated. Thanks!
This is not really a choice...TJeanloz
Aug 21, 2002 4:04 AM
With due respect to Seven and Moots, a custom bike designed and built by Holland is the best of the bunch, if your into that sort of thing. With Holland, you know that their best guy is doing the designing and the building- because they only have one guy. If I knew that Rob Vandermark was designing and building each and every Seven, I might feel differently. I really believe that there is something to be said for one person building a custom bike from the point of looking at, and measuring the customer, to welding the tubes. Holland is the only one in the bunch who will do that for you, so I say go with him.
The only concern is....koala
Aug 21, 2002 4:13 AM
I spoke with Bill earlier in the summer and at that time he was having trouble getting butted tubesets in ti. That could either lengthen your wait time or make your only choice straight guage. Other than that, TJeanloz is right,IMO. Oh, and he is pricier than Moots or Seven as of my last conversation with him.
How much Pricier?Len J
Aug 21, 2002 4:34 AM
I think a Serotta Legend Ti frame is around $2,917 W/O fork.
I think a Seven Axiom Ti frame is around $2,595 w/o fork.
Both of these are MSRP and can be reduced by the LBS.

How much was a Holland?

How much Pricier?kingmoose
Aug 21, 2002 2:43 PM
Holland quoted me 2400 w/o fork. That includes him doing the fit. If you don't want to be fit by him he reduces the price by 200.
How much Pricier?urwhaturide
Aug 21, 2002 6:19 PM
Guys, just weighing in here with my feeling that Seven is the way to go ..... Rob Vandermark and his team of maniac riders will go not only the extra mile, but they will go an extra 100 miles to make sure that a rider that appreciates the best, gets the best. Call them and talk to them, don't shop them for opinion or price if you really want the best (and that includes my opinion).
re: Holland vs. Moots vs. Sevengsxrawd
Aug 21, 2002 9:06 PM
I was kinda in the same shoe about a month ago. being an ex owner of Litespeed Classic and a Serotta Legend Ti I was in the market for a new titanium frame. I had narrowed it down to Seven and Holland. Price wasn't really an issue because they both cost around the same, I believe Holland was cheaper by 2-$300. Holland quoted me 8-12 weeks for the frame and Seven quoted me 4-8 weeks. At the time I needed a frame fairly fast so after a long debate I went with Seven. I end up getting my frame from Seven in 4.5 weeks. IMHO you can't go wrong with Seven or Holland. Here is a pic of my new ride
Can you compare and contrast the rides of the three bikes?Len J
Aug 22, 2002 6:07 AM
I'd love to hear how the rides compare.


Aug 22, 2002 4:06 PM
Wifey rides a custom Holland fitted for her by Bill. I ride a Serotta Legend Ti - stock geometry fits me like a glove. Buddy rides a Seven Odonata custom. Another rides an Axiom. We're all roughly the same size. All very nice bikes, well maintained, but I haven't riden the other bikes far enough to give you a good comparison. Each of us feel that our ride is superior and frankly I think we're probably splitting hairs at this level. For you to solicit opinions on the net about something as personal and esoteric as a custom ti frame is a little discouraging. It's like you're running a popularity contest - Ford or Chevy? Paper or Plastic? In reality you should be riding these bikes and going with the one that feels the best to you. Who offers a demo program? Serotta. Who has a certified fit program? Serotta. Who has been building custom frames for over 25 years and has come up with many of the innovations that others copy? Serotta. I know this sounds like marketing copy, but it's the real deal.

I do feel more comfortable on the Serotta and like the responsiveness and the feel. Frankly the Serotta is the only one with tapered tube sets although they're all butted. When you compare them side by side they each have their own beauty but the Legend has some exotic touches that you simply will not find any where else. Tapered down and seat tubes as well as seat stays. 3D drop outs, headtube extensions. All of the welds are top notch on all of the models. You really can't go wrong with any of these bikes, but you're not buying a date with a super model, you're buying the ride of your life - don't you think you should ride the bike and judge for yourself what is the best ride for you? I'm so dialed on my bike that 150 or 200 miles is a pure joy. It was never like this on my OCLV.

Sorry to be so preachy, but it's a pretty passionate subject for me and if I thought for a minute that brand XXX were better I'd dump my Serotta like a bad habit.
Passion is a wonderful thing.Len J
Aug 22, 2002 5:59 PM
I intend to test ride where possible, however, finding a custom Holland on the eastern shore of MD is pretty remote. I was hoping to elicit someones oponion who had actually put sig. miles on both to highlight the differences, in an attempt to better predict how a Holland might differ from a Serrota I did test ride.

How else will I judge wheather or not a Holland is worth persuing?

re: Holland vs. Moots vs. Sevenkingmoose
Aug 22, 2002 2:46 PM
If you had the chance to be fit by Holland would that have made a difference in your decision. Do you know does Holland use bends in his seat and chain stay like Seven and Spectrum. Thanks.