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Campy 10sp comapability Ques from a retro-geek refugee(7 posts)

Campy 10sp comapability Ques from a retro-geek refugeeredman
Aug 15, 2002 8:14 PM
Just got my wife some Chorus 10sp brake shift levers--she wants to upgrade her 80s road bike. I set them up with a new Veloce Triple rear deraillure that I already had and they seemed to work fine with the Shimano Hyperglide 7sp cassette on the bike stand but it's no suprise that the chain wasn't happy in several of the gearsonce on the road, although the front shifting was perfect. She's wary of spending to much and relying on me. I have a lot of wrenching experience, but not much with the new 9/10sp skinny cogs and chains--all my road bikes are N/S Record.

Now she wants to get some new wheels and I need to know the minimum we need to get to solid compatibility. I was going to build a wheelset but have seen good deals on built sets and Protons which made me lazy about building her another set. Also getting the rear triangle spread and aligned for a 130mm rear hub.

Question 1: If I get her a campagnolo wheelset with a ten speed cassette, I'm assuming she'll need a 10sp chain. Is that right? Will Shimano 9sp chain work on Campy 10sp cogs? What brands of chain will work besides the Campy cogs?

Question 2: What chainrings do we need to get to work with the narrower chain? I've read on this forum a while ago that the standard width chainrings will work, even with the spacing between the rings (the perfect front shifting she gets with the standard shimano rings and Superbe Pro front der. now would back that up). She is going to keep her NOS SunTour Superbe Pro 130bcd crank so we cannot use the Campagnolo branded 135bcd rings. Do we need the narrow Shimano 9sp rings or will regular Shimano chains work with the narrow chain?

Question 3. The new Veloce Triple rear deraillure seems to work fine, but obviously the wrong cogset prevents us from knowing for sure. It seems to have lots of room to cover a ten cog cassette width, but is there any reason she should have to upgrade to an actual 10sp deraillure?

Thanks for the help--if there is a FAQ on this that I didn't find, please let me know.
re: Campy 10sp comapability Ques from a retro-geek refugeeGregJ
Aug 15, 2002 11:03 PM
I don't know all the specifics. But it seems to me this general idea is not wise. Chorus is an expensive grouppo and so are Proton wheels. Why put them on an old bike? Why not get a new bike? Alternatively, you can get 7-speed STI levers that MAY work with your current set-up. Check here, 91 bucks.
http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=MSGI&Category_Code=RoadShiftLeversShimano
My guess on the minimum to do the 10 speed conversion: RD, FD, Crank, BB, Rear hub, cassette, chain.
Campy has a great FAQ page: http://www.campagnolo.com/qea.php
Another idea if your wife has a really nice older frame that can be spread would be to upgrade the complete drivetrain with Tiagra or 105. Much more cost effective than Chorus. What kind of frame does she have?
also consider Centaurdzrider
Aug 16, 2002 7:02 AM
Went thru this on my wife's 86 Pinarello. We got the Fder, BB and Cranks as part of a kit because the old stuff was too nasty to put on a freshly painted bike. The way the front shift lever works the only issue I can picture is how much effort it takes to move the lever. Even if you have to change the fder to lessen the effort, the set screws should accomadate an old bottom bracket and crankset. Please bear in mind that this is all speculation.

We went with 9sp which allows using Shimano cassettes with very minor adjustments - loosening each set screw 1/4 turn and minimal if any cable tensioning. The Daytona stuff works as nicely as Chorus works on my bike.
re: Campy 10sp comapability Ques from a retro-geek refugeeredman
Aug 16, 2002 3:34 PM
Thanks for the campy FAQ page--that's going to help.

To answer your question--you're confusing "newer" with "better." Just because a frame is older doesn't mean it is not better than much of what you can get now (damn I really am a retro-geek--I thought I was joking). She uses a high end welded Ti frame for her mtb, but prefers lugged steel for a road bike and there are lots of reasons to do so, regardless of whether any teams are racing on lugged steel anymore (can't remember if I saw any in the Tour this year, not that it matters). I know it's a little heavier frame than many cheaper ones she could get now, but there are other important things too, she feels. Just to make sure she isn't catching my retro geek virus, I've frequently encouraged her to ride newer frames and she has several times, but that's not lead for her to any desire to move from lugged steel.

There are lots of cyclists who care alot about the best performing stuff and not so much about the newest stuff, people who buy the best stuff and then ride it forever. They miss out on lots of new features, and occasionally that matters but not often. In the meantime, they're always riding the best stuff if they've chosen wisely.

In riding most all the STI and Ergo groups, we've found that Chorus is the best--compare the Chorus lever functioning with its ball bearings to the bushings of Campy's lower groups and you'll feel a real difference--and it doesn't have the silliness of Campy's carbon levers like Record (levers hit hard when you fall). As for comparing Ergo to STI--I'm a Campy nut myself who greatly appreciates Shimano nevertheless, and there are other reasons I prefer Ergo (separate lever for braking for example). She prefers Campy somewhat too, but mainly prefers the feel of the Campy levers for her small hands. That's an individual thing and I'm glad there are two systems so that more people can get something that feels right.

So Tiagra or 105 are not even in the consideration--I don't think she'll allow the Veloce rear der to stay on there even if it does shift with the 10sp stuff. Even people watching their budgets will often find it is more cost effective in the long run to choose carefully and mix high-end parts on a high end frame rather than go with the latest lower end group on a generic frame.

By the way, another reason to stay with an old frame, besides emotional attachment which factors in for some people, is that it took her a long time to find a 49/50cm frame with the right length top tube and not too rangy a front center--she'd rather have toe overlap and a well descending frame than sit way too far behind her front wheel like most really small frames require--and she'd rather have 700c wheels front and back. So that leaves her very few options if she wants a really good fit. People who find that fit are reluctant to give it up.

As for the Proton wheels, I think she's now decided against those, but was interested in them for the weight--we climb passes in the mountains for most of our riding.
re: Campy 10sp comapability Ques from a retro-geek refugeeGregJ
Aug 16, 2002 9:09 PM
You will like the Chorus 10, I have it on my bike and it is great for riding in the mountains. I had lugged frames for most of the 20 years or so I have been riding, last one was a Guerciotti SLX, it was a nice bike. Well if she has a frame she really likes and you have the budget to go Chorus, go for it. You can save a few bucks by skipping the Campy wheels and going with regular spoked rims(I did.) I do think you will need most of the drive to get this to work at it's potential however. Good luck.
re: Campy 10sp comapability Ques from a retro-geek refugeeRusty Coggs
Aug 16, 2002 5:03 AM
Use a campy 10 chain. Standard chainrings work.The rear deralier has to be a 2001 or later 9 or 10 speed model to work with the revised cable pull of the 10 speed shifters.
re: Campy 10sp comapability Ques from a retro-geek refugeeredman
Aug 16, 2002 2:45 PM
Thanks, I'd wondered if they'd revised the cable pull and geometry of the rear der. with 10sp.