's Forum Archives - General

Archive Home >> General(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 )

why are there no black people in the (uci) pro peleton?(61 posts)

why are there no black people in the (uci) pro peleton?legs
Aug 3, 2002 9:49 AM
doesnt that bother you a little?
it feels like something is missing.
its a rhetorical question...
It does bother me.gerwerken
Aug 3, 2002 10:09 AM
During the tour I looked it up because someone on the board asked why there were no african and asian riders. Turns out there has been a few asian pros, but I cound't find any african ones.
It does bother me.legs
Aug 3, 2002 10:17 AM
there have been a few.. from nelson vails to that new kid riding for the saturn development team (i think its saturn)..
and i can only imagine that the euro system is not friendly to 'others' (memories of the columbians being referred to as monkeys)...

it kind of bums me out.. i think for our sport to grow into the next century this hurdle must be addressed.
Aug 3, 2002 2:49 PM
How many Americans were in the tour?

Are you asking why there aren't that many Africans, or African Europeans/Americans (ie. "blacks") ?

I really don't think road biking is that big in Africa. It isn't really considered much of a "sport" in the US, for that matter.

It really isn't THAT elitist, if you think about it.
Time for me to add my .02african
Aug 3, 2002 4:01 PM
Yes cycling is not that big in Africa, but the worlds largest timed bike race is in Africa!!

It is called the Cape Argus Pick n' Pay Cycle Tour. Eddy Merckx did the race in 1996, of course I was on my way to the USA and missed it doh.
30 000 do the race. Yes this is in Africa, here is a picture....(sorry it is big).
What part of Africa?firstrax
Aug 3, 2002 5:54 PM
What part of Africa?african
Aug 4, 2002 7:22 AM
Cape Town, South Africa. Look at the map and it is right at the bottom of Arfica. It is a great ride and event.
is it bigger then RAAM?cyclopathic
Aug 4, 2002 4:38 AM
or race around Australia?
Not sure if bigger, 30 000 people and timed with chips nmafrican
Aug 4, 2002 7:23 AM
Aug 3, 2002 10:23 AM
Watch out, I'm injured, crabby and not feeling terribly PC this morning because the SO is out riding without me.

OK, so Georgie isn't technically black, but he is a mixed race New Yorker from the closest thing to Da Hood you can get without the gang tattoos; he also paid his entry fees in his early career by messengering.

I agree with you that something's missing. I've had a couple black friends who were pretty serious cyclists; one is a trackie in Indy and there's a Cat III guy who races out here. And who could forget Nelson Vails (another track racer who went bigtime).

In the U.S., bike racing is like golf WAS in the sixties and seventies: an elitist middle to upper middle class sport perpetuated by WASP men. Think World Cup skiing - how many black guys you see contesting the Hannenkahm?

In Europe, bike racing is (how can I say this, oh forget being polite) basically a white trash sport. It's oftentimes the only path a downtrodden Belgian plumber has to stardom.

In the end it's all kind of cultural. I used to live in the (real, honest to God) hood in Cincinnati. I never really knew about the cultural angle until I invited a couple of ladies who went to the gospel Baptist church across the street from us to a women's MTB clinic. They went to my Spinning class and I figured they might think it was a gas to take some of their new-found fitness to the woods, and the clinic featured loaner bikes for beginners to use. These were your standard forty-to fifty-something healthy sized black women, taking Spinning because their doctor had told them they needed to lose a few. Let me tell you, I think those ladies had more fun at that clinic than all the rest of the suburbanite white chicks combined. They didn't stop laughing the entire day, even falling down and getting muddy didn't seem to dampen their enthusiasm. Hope they're still out trail riding is all I can say; we moved to Boulder shortly afterwards.

We had the most eye-opening chat at the lunchtime gathering. Seems these ladies hadn't ridden a bicycle outdoors since they were old enough to drive. The reason is that in black society, anyone on a bicycle is considered an utter loser; they're either homeless, too poor to afford a car, or have lost their license for some reason. So from the time you're old enough to drive, you drive, even if the best car you can afford isn't worth as much as the $350 Trek Antelopes these gals were using as loaner bikes and is less reliable. The fact that a good racing bike costs more than an '85 Caddy doesn't even come into the thought process.

That being said, I have seen a few black amateurs out there taking their licks in the local crits. There's one on this board (flyinbowlofmilk) who's making a go at it too, more power to him I say. Cycling in general is a daggoned snobby sport, we need more diversity in it anyhow if those gals I met at the clinic are any indication.
Aug 3, 2002 10:56 AM
there is great diversity here too (in cali)..
I was just looking at a picture on velonews (in the rant) where they superimposed mike tysons face on beloki and i thought it looked odd to see a black face in the pack.. (aside from the oddity of the pic).. and that felt shitty to have that thought...
anyway.. yeah PC=death
Aug 3, 2002 11:56 AM
Are you in the north or south? We've got a big club in LA called Major Motion that is made up almost entirely of black riders. That hot young rider that someone else mentioned started with MM. As I've said before, I see black, hispanic, and asian riders almost every time I go out in the LA area.
Aug 3, 2002 8:11 PM too.. i have sat in with those guys...
(so cal)..

I think it is great at the grass roots and cat3-5 level...
Aug 3, 2002 11:17 AM
hey.. heal soon.. i love your love of racing... it makes me go faster too..
and yeah on the white trash.. it is all about smelly inarticulate farmboys...
its very true...
White Trash???GregJ
Aug 4, 2002 11:54 AM
Skilled tradesman such as plumbers, are neither downtrodden nor white trash.(That very term is a pretty meaningless stereotype anyway.) They are blue collar workers that have a wide diversity in education and interests in life. Skilled tradesman have a great degree of independence in their work life and if they are even halfway industrious and intelligent, they can make a very comfortable living. I have always questioned this idea that cyclists in Europe come mostly from the lower economic classes. I would suspect it is a myth and the likely truth is that they come from a wide range of backgrounds.
The Greatest Black Rider In Historyjromack
Aug 3, 2002 10:39 AM
The Greatest Black Rider In Historylegs
Aug 3, 2002 11:01 AM
I know...(there was even a bad movie about him wasn't there?)
but that is not enough..
I think if our sport is going to flourish into the 21st century.. it will undergo some kind of changes.. but i think those changes go against the european-ness of cycling.. i wonder how they dealt with this in soccer?
Why aren't there more whites in the NBA?aeon
Aug 3, 2002 12:48 PM
Or why are there so many Kenyan runners, or asian badminton players?

Some cultures just tend to gravitate towards certain sports.

Also the cost of riding would tend to keep many from developing countries out of the competative ranks.
A lot more whites in NBA than blacks in pelotonRay Sachs
Aug 3, 2002 2:08 PM
And plenty of runners of all races. Golf and tennis are still PRIMARILY white sports, but there are enough blacks in the pro ranks to serve as role models and open these sports up some (well, maybe not many in golf, but one tiger is worth a lot of journeymen). There are plenty of black roadies here in the Philly area, but I have yet to see any in the European peloton and no more than one or two on the American circuit.

It won't happen overnight, but I agree with the original poster that more diversity in the pro ranks would be a very good thing.

Aeon is right......JimOCLV
Jul 31, 2002 9:29 AM
Some cultures tend to sway towards other sports, Dont blame it on racism. Why arn't there many white Olympic runners, or whites on the Olympic basketball team. Why are the French and Italian's more into pro cycling then Americans? Some cultures dominate specific sports and probally always will although we did kick Russian @$$!! in hockey at the 1980 olympics!

Why aren't there more whites in the NBA?legs
Aug 3, 2002 5:32 PM
uh huh.. explain the columbian cyclists to me...
and .. yeah .. there was a color line in the nba for a long time...

look all i am saying is that it would be nice to see something other than a wall of anglos and latins in one of the major tours.... all i am saying is that the total absense of color is a little frustrating... because i think it would make or sport even more interesting....

the ethnic gravitation towards some sports doesnt work here.. it doesnt regard the amount of non-white cyclist i encounter in many of the clubs around major US cities...

hell, isnt tennis better for the willaims sisters.. arent they raising the game.. might they be inspiring non-white athletes into the sport..
diversity is healthy...
and i think it is essential to the future of our insulated sport...
Legs: Your arguement sounds like -"They all look the same to me"jose_Tex_mex
Aug 4, 2002 1:01 PM
You appear to be grouping all non-black and non-latin riders into the "anglo" category which IMHO is as bad as those who look at all people of color and say - they all look the same to me.

Try going to France or Italy and explain to them that they are anglos - just be prepared for a good fight.
If you check the Tour de France's lineup this year, I believe the real anglo was David Millar of Britain.

BTW - where do people from Spain and Portugal fit into your world view. Their Euro's in Europe - they're not Latin are they?

If the only tool you have is a hammer...

Watch when you play the race card...
Legs: Your arguement sounds like -"They all look the same to me"legs
Aug 4, 2002 1:17 PM
if you read through my comments in this you will see clearly that i am not doing that.. and you will also see that it was a rhetorical question.. hell.. i would like to see some great irishman back in the peleton too...

so yeah.. again.. obviously i am not seeing everyone as white.. nor do i regard the word black, white or latin as really doing anything but painting a broad stroke in order to make a simple point.... (i find all of those decriptions to be fairly vacant and insulting)
this isnt meant to be a dissertation .. just a way to start a conversation...
Perhaps, I misunderstood. However, ...jose_Tex_mex
Aug 4, 2002 1:39 PM
... when you look at the Tours as being a "wall of anglo's" and state "and yeah on the white trash.. it is all about smelly inarticulate farmboys" that just does not sound like someone out for harmony.

The big Tours are something ABSOLUTELY sacred to the Euro's. They live and die for this tradition. How many people from Africa would care an iota for the tour? Why is it surprising to see a wall of people who nourish, support, and live by these Tours?

Again, perhaps, I erred. If so, my apologies.
Bad Examplesjose_Tex_mex
Aug 4, 2002 1:13 PM
Arthur Ashe, the Williams Sisters, and Tiger Woods have done a lot for their sports. However, this is because they wanted to excel and not because they were pushed into the sport in order to make it more colorful.

What you have said is that more blacks should be in the sport no matter what. Just by their being there the sport will somehow get better. Wrong. Until black athletes CHOOSE to cycle you should not expect to see them with the pro pelotons.
Bad Exampleslegs
Aug 4, 2002 4:56 PM
where did i say anything about pushing black athletes into our sport..?
can i say without offending you that you are entirely misunderstanding the spirit, meaning ,and intent of my post...

I am saying two simple things:
1) an observation, there are no black people in the grand tours...
2)its gonna be great when there are.. and i wish that time was already here...

what in this are we arguing about?
Not in the UCI, but a multiple world championTig
Aug 3, 2002 3:30 PM
Next to Major Taylor and Nelson Vails, the next most successful black rider is a relative unknown outside of track racing named Al Whaley. Al is about 125 pounds at 5' 8", which is exceptionally small for a sprinter. His fast twitch muscle content must be incredible. If you ever see him ride, you won't believe how much faster his legs can spin than other sprinters both in a road race or on the track! He is a super nice guy, and mentors elite junior racers.

Here's his list of achievements:
2000 UCI Masters World Championships -- Kilometer Gold Medallist
2000 Sydney Paralympic Summer Games -- Tandem Kilometer Gold Medallist
2000 Sydney Paralympic Summer Games -- Tandem Match Sprints Silver Medallist
2000 U.S. Olympic/Paralympic Team Trials -- Tandem Match Sprints Gold Medallist
2000 U.S. Olympic/Paralympic Team Trials -- Tandem Kilometer Gold Medallist
2000 Named to the U.S. Paralympic Team -- Mixed Tandem Team
1999 U.S. National Tandem Championships -- Kilometer Gold Medallist
1999 U.S. National Tandem Championships -- Match Sprints Silver Medallist
1999 U.S. Masters National Championships -- Match Sprints Gold Medallist
1998 UCI Masters World Championships -- Masters World Olympic Sprint Champion
1998 UCI Masters World Championships -- Kilometer Silver Medallist
1998 UCI Masters World Championships -- Match Sprint Bronze Medallist
1998 UCI Masters World Championships -- Set New Olympic Sprint World Record
1997 UCI Masters World Championships -- Masters World Kilometer Champion
1997 UCI Masters World Championships -- Masters World Sprint Champion
1997 U.S. Masters National Championships -- Masters National Kilometer Champion
1997 U.S. Masters National Championships -- Masters National Sprint Champion
1996 Masters Pan American Games -- Masters Pan Am. Sprint Champion
1996 Masters Pan American Games -- Masters Pan Am. 500 Meter Champion
1996 U.S. Masters National Championships -- Masters National Match Sprint Champion
1996 U.S. Olympic Trials -- Sixth in the Kierin Championship
1995 U.S. Olympic Festival -- Olympic Festival Sprint Champion
Why on earth would you be "bothered" by theLazywriter
Aug 3, 2002 4:15 PM
idea that there are no blacks in cycling???? Like the guy said, certain cultures gravitate towards certain sports. Stop with the politically correct, "It is worrisome that blacks aren't represented in cycling".
Contrary to what most people think, blacks very over representative in professional sports and entertainment. That is fine with me, but they are grossly underrepresentative in the jobs most people here tend to hold. Feel sorry for those people.
Technically, a certain race should hold the same % of positions as they do the % of population. Thereofore, if blacks are 18% of the general population, they should hold 18% of the jobs in certain professions to be "representative". Therefore the overrepresentation of blacks in professional sports and entertainment. Like I said, don't feel so bad, feel bad for the millions that need to take your jobs to just make enough to make a living.
well said! nmcyclejim
Aug 3, 2002 7:20 PM
Why on earth would you be "bothered" by thelegs
Aug 3, 2002 7:25 PM
grossly missing my point and stating the obvious ...
Legs, if it were that obvious to you, you wouldn'tLazywriter
Aug 3, 2002 7:49 PM
have asked such a useless question. There are no Indian people represented in cycling. Wah wah wah, call Civil Liberties and sue the tour organization. Retard.
Legs, if it were that obvious to you, you wouldn'tlegs
Aug 3, 2002 8:20 PM
again.. missing my point..

and please call me dr. retard if you must...

I am not making a rainbow coalition statement here...
just making an observation about the sport we all love and the seeming gap between grassroots and the uci..
and wishing for purely hedonic reasons.. that there was more to the peleton in the grand tours.. because i think it would raise the level of our sport and broaden the audience...
and i think and hope it is inevitable..
I am not sure what about this is difficult for you...
but your comments are clear......
and the name calling is embarrassing...
I am embarrassed for you...
About lazywriter...spankdoggie
Aug 3, 2002 8:25 PM
Lazy is one of the more prolific jackasses that resides on our dear forum here. Pay him no mind; he rides a litespeed, and for that, he loses all credibility.

Do not believe a word he tells you.

Word to the wise,

Aug 3, 2002 9:02 PM
Listen up, you are a complete douchebag. My comment was legitmate and I assure you there are plenty who agree. Just because Legs is misguided, doesn't mean he cannot learn a thing or two from my wisdom.
If there were a black cyclist capable of beating Lance in the TDF, he would be on a team and racing. No racism, just a lack of a qualified black cyclist.
Spanky, you know even less than Legs Magee here and should just remain quiet because you have nothing worthy to say to me. You are a total tool.
Aug 3, 2002 9:50 PM
Lazywriter, you are so unqualified to speak about the subject it is ridiculous. You are the biggest honkey ass cracker I have ever seen.

Don't even go there with your understanding of the black race. Bitch.

I recall David Letterman's top 5 reasons why no black people play pro hockey...


(We only got 5 ‘cause The Man wouldn't let us have 10)

5. It's cold out there.

4. Scared to get a gold tooth knocked out.

3. Don't want to be around white guys with sticks.

2. Don't want to be around with a white guy in a mask.

1. Don't feel the need to dominate yet another sport.

Humans are humans. We are all one race lazywriter, you jackass. Physically, as a race, some races may be more adaptable in certain athletic endeavors compared to other races; however, across the board intelligence can not be quantified as a differential worth investigating in sports related matters...

I have gotten my ass kicked by black road racers...
Probably just another lawyer. I don't care if you are black! All you lawyers can kiss my ass!!!
(except Doug Sloan. I love Doug Sloan. I love you, sir)

Lazy, you jackass, don't even try to get me into this mess... You have one hand on your penis, and the other is gripping the mouse...


Aug 3, 2002 10:04 PM
Fu(k you. You a just another punk ass spewing your rhetoric on this board. I could give a rat's ass who is or isn't in the peleton. All you idiots worrying about representation on pro level sports are so misguided. Worry about the average minority working in "real world" jobs that cannot get ahead. Opening up the doors for a handful of minority riders is not gonna cure any real world inequities.
Spanky, you are not worthy to trade ideas with me. You are a punk, predictable and a pussy. Yeah, I have one hand on my penis and the other on your the back of your mother's head. Punk
Jackass, Lazywriter...spankdoggie
Aug 3, 2002 10:34 PM
I got into your head.
That is what I wanted to do.
You sound angry.

Pull yourself together so we can have a real flame war. Falling apart in front of me like this is so very sad.
Pull yourself together.
We can try this again in another thread.

I think I am starting to like you,

Aug 3, 2002 10:46 PM
I don't lose my composure with punk ass bitches like you. You are a smelly, fetted cun# and nothing to be concerned with. I may "sound" angry but am totally at piece. Your mother has a lot to do with that. Now go back to your favorite website,
Aug 3, 2002 10:53 PM
Lazywriter, my dear jackass friend. I love you with all of my heart, as you know. You ride a litespeed which renders every word you say here fallible, though, but besides that...

Put the liquor down, step away from the keyboard, and get to bed.



P.S. I better see an apology here soon, lazy, within the next year or two. I will take this war and run with it like a damn bastard child runnin' from fat crack momma with a hot iron... Reread what you wrote (ROTFLMAO) when you wake up. You won't remember it until you stumble back here in about 14 hours...


spankdoggie (still laughing. Thanks!)
Spanky you littleLazywriter
Aug 3, 2002 11:02 PM
douchebag, I get a kick out of how witty you think you are. Like I said you are a punk with no balls. Now get on your POS Serotta (is that what you ride?)and ride in to a wall like the retard you are.
P.S. My Litespeeds are so damn nice. Pure beauty in the form of titanium. Pussies like you can't handle the acceleration.
I meant "peace" but had a Freudian slipLazywriter
Aug 3, 2002 10:55 PM
because I was thinking about your mom who is such a piece of ass.
Let me sleep!!!spankdoggie
Aug 3, 2002 11:01 PM

Lazy, you keep waking me up. I will let you stay here, but you need to stop waking me up. I am turning the alarm off on my computer...


P.S. Stop waking me up; I am trying to sleep. Don't you have something better to do? (ROTFLMAO)

Let me sleep,

Let me sleep!!!Lazywriter
Aug 3, 2002 11:05 PM
OK, just make sure your mother buys you another bottle of lotion and box of tissues for the aftermath. You know, those yellow protein stains don't come out of fabric. That is why I make you mother take it down the hatch. YOU AREN'T CAPABLE OF MATCHING MY SNAPS SO STOP TRYING.
I'm not bothered... you meant to answer gerwerken's post? -nmTig
Aug 3, 2002 7:43 PM
Ahh... the joy of being a cyclist in NY.5ive
Aug 3, 2002 4:08 PM
My weekend training ride draws 100-150 people on good days. Being in Westchester county (very close to NYC), it brings wonderful mix of riders, cultures, income levels, and backgrounds. They are from all over including Da Bronx and Da Brooklyn. I would guess that 3 to 4 out of 10 riders are non white. We have bunch of riders from South America (especially Columbia) who attacks on anything that resembles a hill. We have 230lbs. black sprinter whom I named "black hole" cuz you can't see or hear anything when you are drafting him. It's fun to see them greet each other in Spanish then see them yell at each other in broken english. Another reason to love NY. Oh BTW I hear from the old timers that Hincapie used to ride up from the city to do this very ride.
many around hereDougSloan
Aug 3, 2002 5:50 PM
Here's Perry Smith (and your's truly), an ultra rider:

California has a very diverse racing crowd.

The guy holding the signs on the back of the yellow.....firstrax
Aug 3, 2002 6:07 PM
... was from Africa. There was a pretty good story about how he got the job. I think he was a cycling nut and always dreamed of working the tour.
My hats always off to anyone who chases their dreams.
The guy holding the signs on the back of the yellow.....legs
Aug 3, 2002 8:07 PM
yeah.. i loved that ..
why are you asking? are you a racist?cyclopathic
Aug 4, 2002 6:52 AM
there're no asians, arabs, indians, etc etc etc. Very few americans, russians, swedes, norwegians.. No uzbeks for some years since Abdu.. Are there any finns?

90% of peloton either italian/spanish or french/belgian, because they're serious about pro cycling.
why are you asking? are you a racist?legs
Aug 4, 2002 12:59 PM
it was a rhetorical question largely due to the fact that it would easily be misunderstood by simpleminded folk..

there are many obvious truths to the lack of diversity...
none-better than the fact that it is sport and not politics..

and yes many of the most basic points are covered here.. although many of them are bristling with lack of sophistication (i.e., the assumption that there are no roads in africa.. or that black is somehow equal to one monolithic cohesive view.. or that the colombians dont have any indian in their blood..)
and yes my god there are people of color in france..

cycling is very much a sport with european traditions..
the riders int he pro peleton span much of northern europe as well as the romance languages and south america as well as mexico...
there is a stage race in cuba...
as well as in countries that are asian ...
japan has a rich cultural history of keirin racing...

the only reason i made this post was to refer to one aspect of our sport that i think will need to develop in order to hold a global audience...
it is stunning sometimes just for the absense of color..

this regards only one level of reality..
now it is easy to state the obvious reactionary reductionist view and think you have accomplished something here..

I want to see the best riders ride.. and i hope someday the peleton is more diverse...and i hope blackness is very much a part of that...
so what do you suggest doing?Starliner
Aug 4, 2002 4:30 PM
I'd say you've created a problem where maybe there wasn't one in the first place.

Like food, diversity is best when it occurs naturally. Diversity, if filled with phony ingredients that are there for the sake of improving appearances, is artificial, hard to swallow, and not necessarily a healthy thing.

Your statements are full of dangerous implication - you say you want to see the best riders ride... are they not now? Where are the closed doors, the glass ceilings keeping black athletes out of cycling? Or keeping asians out of NFL pro football? Are you suggesting that we put an asterisk next to Lance Armstrong's record?

Is there something else that you are trying to say?
so what do you suggest doing?legs
Aug 4, 2002 4:42 PM
gosh.. you guys a really into running with it..
putting words in my mouth.. go back and read the original post.. thats all it meant.. its all there..

its a very simple sentiment..
and its obvious...

why is everone making this into more than it is...?
Aug 4, 2002 12:21 PM
There is none of thoise around, it seems as if the sport was like golf back in the day, but im sure it will change soon...

Ill be in the Peloton soon!
What about Eskimos, Samoans, and Pygmies?jose_Tex_mex
Aug 4, 2002 1:50 PM
Let's take the argument to a ridiculous conclusion by stating that cycling definitely discriminates against Eskimos, Pygmies, and Samoans as there have never been any in a major tour.

I think if Eskimos were given an opporutunity they would gladly welcome the opporunity to wear a skinsuit.
What about Eskimos, Samoans, and Pygmies?legs
Aug 4, 2002 1:56 PM
I never used the word discriminate...
(although i doubt the old school euros would be very friendly-- they treated the columbians like non-humans at first)
and i am not talking about a rainbow coalition..
and i am not arguing..
this is why i think the simple point i was making is being missed entirely...

whats so hard about saying.. you would be cool to see some black people in the peleton..

this is getting ridiculous and it is starting to sound nothing at all like my intent...
what's up with all this resistance...?

chill everybody...
Legs, give it up. Your psuedo liberalism isLazywriter
Aug 4, 2002 2:30 PM
backfiring. Kinda like Meathead on All in the Family. LOL
Legs, give it up. Your psuedo liberalism islegs
Aug 4, 2002 4:49 PM
what is backfiring?
there was no firing to begin with..
how can you fight a personal and rhetorical observation..

you seem to be fighting yourself on this one...
Legs, I am sure not the only one telling youLazywriter
Aug 4, 2002 4:55 PM
that you are misguided on this one. I am reading the posts here, aren't you?? You sound like an insulated college student that knows nothing of the real world yet. Only what your useless professors tell you.
I could be wrong.
Legs, I am sure not the only one telling youlegs
Aug 4, 2002 5:15 PM
you are wrong..
i am a professor (in spite of my typos here)
i am a doctor (in the field you profess to work)
i race bikes
I am mixed race.
I am under forty and have been riding and racing for many years (yes i have podiumed).

lazywriter.. there is more than one bottom line..
and you make a lot of assumptions..
and the name calling is ineffective..
and offensive for no reason other than to be offensive..
I encourage your ideas.. but i am disouraged by your process...
LegsWoof the dog
Aug 4, 2002 6:40 PM
The guy from TX and Lazy are right. You are making noise about nothing. I like cycling the way it is now, and if any black guys want to ride with me, thats ok too.


Woof the dog.

P.S. Lazy's and doggie's brawl was great!!! Where else would you read funny shit like this?
Aug 5, 2002 11:24 AM
hey woof.. thing is.. i totally agree with you (the first part)..
I think it will be cool if there are more at the uci level..
that's all...

everything else seemed like words and thoughts being added on that had not a thing toi do with what i meant...