|Anyone read this Trek vs. Colnago?||filtersweep|
Jul 29, 2002 6:26 PM
It is an interesting read... certainly supported by the image gallery comments here.
|That article is evidence of the totally||Lazywriter|
Jul 29, 2002 6:37 PM
|retarded ideology and romanticized ideal of a road bike that has to be a custom Italian pure bred racer in order to have any real value. Snobs, and I love to see Lance win on a mass marketed frame and SHIMANO components. I just friggin love it.
I am a firm believer that "custom" is not necessary but not necessarily a bad thing either. 99.9% of people can get a perfect fit on a custom frame. Colnagos are nice bikes, but when people put their noses in the air like they are some sub-par carbon frame because Colnago is the only "real" carbon bike, it is just ridiculous.
Plus I hate to say it, but I have heard several times that Ernesto tends to send his crap here to the U.S. and keep the good stuff for the europeans. Don't doubt it. The 1 year warrranty on a c40 is a joke. Unacceptable.
|I meant to say that||Lazywriter|
Jul 29, 2002 7:31 PM
|99% of people can get a perfect fit on a noncustom frame.|
|99% of what?||alansutton|
Jul 30, 2002 8:07 AM
|Where did you get the 99% figure?
While I currently ride a production sized frame, I'm the lucky minority in the group I ride with. Not that they all have custom frames, most don't. But what from what I can see, most would benifit from a custom.
|don't you think the same criticism can be leveled at your LS?||Jekyll|
Jul 29, 2002 8:42 PM
|Cipo spend a few years creaming every other rider in the sprint on a frame you can buy for a fifth of the cost of your LS and with the same life time warranty to boot. And Simoni (in between snorting coke) managed to do OK at the Giro with the same bike. Beloki managed a pretty respectable race on a frame that costs less than the OCLV or far less than your Vortex.
The point is that all of this stuff is driven by marketing generated demand and not by performance.
Some of us can afford it, it makes us happy, etc.: Nothing wrong with that. Custom aside, if a frame was camouflaged I would venture that the vast majority of the riding public could not tell a difference between a $500 and a $3000 one. Reveal the shiny Ti or sleek CF, show the world the head badge and the decals and suddenly everyone feels a difference in the ride.
Then again I like my LS too.
|Top American bike manafacturers ...||ol|
Jul 29, 2002 9:01 PM
|are head and shoulders above the European makers. The makers of top end ti and carbon such as Litespeed, Merlin, Seven, Trek, Calfree etc. make frames that are all about practicality and performance and less about glitz and fancy paint jobs. I have owned 2 American bikes and 2 European bikes all top end and have found the US frames better fit,better ride, superior finish. I base my opinions not on some patriotic windfall, I am not American and I do not live in the US, but simply on a decade worth of riding and racing.|
|Top American bike manafacturers ... LOL||flying|
Jul 29, 2002 9:42 PM
|Heheheheh thanks for the laugh!
But really I have seen good & bad from both sides.
|That's not true||mmaggi|
Jul 30, 2002 6:05 AM
|Very simply, there are good American frame builders and there are good Euro frame builders. It's as simple as that.
The difference between the two lies in the finishing. Whether you like it or not, the Italians are masters at paying attention to detail. As good as TREK OCLV frames are, they look like crap compared to a C-40. Why can't American builders learn from the Colnagos, Pinarellos and Casatis of the world? Same can be said of the unfinished brushed Ti look. I mean really... how boring does that look?
The finishing doesn't mean the frame or bike will perform better. They all perform well.
Lance Armstrong (or any any winner of the TdF, Giro or Vuelta) can win an anyone of the frames used in those races.
|You make a key point, and it's why I bought a Colnago||hrs|
Jul 30, 2002 7:38 AM
|Fit. Fit is one of the most critical factors in performance and comfort. I wanted an OCLV, still do...will probably buy one eventually. But After some test rides I found that the Colnago I rode (MXL) felt better...riding, turning, descending, even climbing. I wanted to like the TREK, and I did like it, but a 55 (57 Colnago) is the best fit for me and it fell between TREK's sizing. I still like the TREK and if it felt as good to me I would have gone that route, but it didn't. Yeah my frame is heavier, but the small weight penalty is a trade I'm willing to make. Can't wait to get out and ride it (frame just came in yesterday).|
Jul 30, 2002 3:20 AM
|Arguments like this remind me of people that put the little Calvin stickers on their Chevy trucks peeing on a Ford emblem. If bikers were not worried about weight, I can see them doing this (man on a litespeed with Calvin whizzing on a Colnago emblem). And if weight were not an issue at all, several people would also have naked lady silhouette mudflaps on their bikes, too. Bikers aren't that much different than the rednecks people enjoy making fun off.
For what its worth, I ride a Litespeed, and it KICKS ASS!
|What a great idea...||miposy|
Jul 30, 2002 11:54 AM
|these stickers would sell like crack on Capitol Hill. I bet the top seller would be Calvin pissing on a Cannondale logo (though I have nothing against them myself, it seems many people do).
You could make bank just producing Trek, Cannondale, Colnago, Litespeed, and Schwinn.
|I believe the writer is mis-informed...||TJeanloz|
Jul 30, 2002 4:16 AM
|This is the typical American point of view, that all things Italian are the best in the cycling world. I've found the Europeans have exactly the opposite view. I have ridden quite a bit in the south of France/north of Italy, and every group ride I go on, scores of Colnago owners ogle my American bike (regardless of what it was; Litespeed, OCLV, Merlin).
The fact is that American bikes are prohibitively expensive in Europe, and Colnago C-40's are far more common than Litespeeds. It's a complete role reversal; in Europe (including, yes Italy), they lust after Cannondales and Treks, which only the wealthiest can afford; here we lust after Colnagos, which only the wealthiest can afford. Same deal with Campy/Shimano; they view Campy as the boring home team, and Shimano as the exotic import.
|You are correct. sir !||Leroy|
Jul 30, 2002 4:23 AM
|A prophet has no honor in is own country, don't they say? That's human nature, the good stuff is always from out of town.
|it's marketing but they are still good bikes||ColnagoFE|
Jul 30, 2002 5:57 AM
|if the paintjob and mystique mean nothing then why do people buy these bikes? they are still top-notch bikes otherwise they would not keep selling. sure you pay for the paint and the hype, but so what? have you ever looked at how much calfee charges for a fade? about $500+ depending on what you choose! no funky airbrushing or the little cycling dude painted on the top tube either. say what you will, but the colnagos seem to have that certain je ne sais quois. lance's trek just kinda says "i am just a generic tool to win bike races". budweiser vs a good chianti. rationalism is boring. gimme some romance anyday.|
|If Lance & Co. had been riding Colnagos...||ET|
Jul 30, 2002 6:36 AM
|he would have won by a far wider margin; no question about it. So his winning on a Trek proves absolutely nothing. Romance lives!|
|I was thinking the same thing||AllisonHayes|
Jul 30, 2002 7:05 AM
|this Litespeed aggrandizing sucks. |
(The only good place for a litespeed is under an 18 wheeler due to a certain mouth.)
Jul 30, 2002 3:55 PM
|romance is for suckers||lnin0|
Aug 1, 2002 6:41 AM
|"...they are still top-notch bikes otherwise they would not keep selling"
You do not live in the America I do because in MY AMERICA you can sell the a pile of shit with the right marketing and mystique and people will flock to it like it was apple pie.
Not that Colnago is crap (overprice - yes) but your assesment of American culture is.
Jul 30, 2002 6:10 AM
|There aren't as many C-40s on the road in Italia as there are here. At least that has been my experience.
In Italia, the #1 frame I see on the road is Bianchi followed by Colnago. Most of the Colnagos I see over there are the Al versions. I've also seen some Mosers and Fondriests, but not many.
It's true that most Italian riders lust for Cannondales and TREKS outfitted with SHIMANO. Why? Because most Italians want what others don't have.
As you mentioned, Cannondales, TREKS and Shimano are very expensive in Italy becuase of the tariffs. Because they're pricey, Italians want them. It's not because of their "good" looks.
|there's domestic lusting too||ET|
Jul 30, 2002 6:44 AM
|Is the Vortex really worth the extra cash?|
|Europeans also love Budweiser.....go figure................nm||chopper|
Jul 30, 2002 8:42 AM
|Who doesn't? (nm)||TJeanloz|
Jul 30, 2002 8:45 AM
|re: Anyone read this Trek vs. Colnago?||tarwheel|
Jul 30, 2002 4:34 AM
|Some US cyclists will only buy American brands like Trek or Cannondale because they think it's the patriotic thing to do. Others buy brands like Colnagos because of the snob appeal. But I think most informed cyclists buy the bike that fits and appeals to them. Personally I have nothing against Treks, Litespeeds or Cannondales but I just couldn't get the best fit on them -- they all have top tubes that are too long for me. That is why I bought an Italian frame, and it has nothing to do with snob appeal. However, I also appreciate the beautiful paint job and attention to detail on my Gios, which I have seen on few US bikes -- particularly for the price. Although Colnagos are rather expensive, there are plenty of equally nice Italian frames that can be purchased for very reasonable prices. My Gios frame/fork was only $600 new from Excel. If I had $1,500 to spend on a new frame, I might consider a Colnago but would probably opt for a custom US frame. I wouldn't spend that money, however, on a stock US frame because none of them has a geometry that suits me.|
|re: Anyone read this Trek vs. Colnago?||nelson|
Jul 30, 2002 6:56 AM
|If one looks at the last 15 TDF's more winners were on Pinarellos than all other brands combined, including Colnago and Trek.|
|what about the last 100 years?||DougSloan|
Jul 30, 2002 8:18 AM
|Got to be Bianchi over all.
|Long before many of you children were born...||Walter|
Jul 30, 2002 8:05 AM
|back in the days now referred to as the "Bike Boom.....
Most "10 speeds" were Euro or Japanese and most were pretty plain but if you were able and willing to spend the princely sum of $1000-1200US to buy the "best" your choices were European. Maybe a Raleigh International in 531 or a Masi or Cinelli in SL. In effect the debate was not if the best bikes were Euro but rather from where in Europe did the best bike come from?
(With all due respect to those who defended their Paramounts)
Nowadays of course arguments can be made that US made frames are as good as any and some even (foolishly) maintain that Shimano is better than Campy. However the original perceptions of quality bikes linger still and impact many consumers even if they have no idea what a "real" Cinelli, Masi or even Raleigh look like.
Ride what you like unless you're a pro, then ride what they give you.
|Reynolds vs. Columbus||DougSloan|
Jul 30, 2002 8:17 AM
|That was the big debate I recall in the late 70's and early 80's. I went with a Bianchi with Columbus.
None of my riding buddies back then would have considered a domestic bike. I recall the term "swine" for "Schwinn (always noting the company made tanks in WWII)." It pretty much had to be French or Italian, and possibly English. Japanese were just starting to make decent bikes, starting with the touring type bikes.
Also, there was no Campy/Shimano debate. If you raced, you used Campy. Suntour and Simplex were big, too; Simplex for the French only camp.
|Ah yes, the old Reynolds versus Columbus debate.||djg|
Jul 30, 2002 10:48 AM
|Now THAT was a materials debate. Interesting that people now focus so much on materials, when not so long ago darn near every bona fide road bike was made out of one or the other of two extremely similar steel tubesets and pretty much NOBODY thought that all those bikes were the same.|| |